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Just like the title says, anyone any idea as to what's happened over at TGA?

It just says the community is unavailable when i go there.

Happens sometimes. Somebody forgot to pay the bill probably (not the first time!)

It wasn't a happy enough place. They need to pump more happy and positivity juice into it, or GW will be having words.

It tends to go down time to time, i'm not sure why honestly.

Also, trying be positive isnt a bad thing, there are still good discussions on what is good or bad, how to play, what relics and powers, etc.. you dont need to be rude to talk about that. Thats just a dakka thing.

Considering Ben Curry, the guy that runs it, is besties with the aos design team and is one of the paramount figures in pushing AOS into sponsored esport territory, I'd say that the forums being down and knowing that they go down once in a while, is a side effect of the server they are using having technical issues right now and that it will be back in the very near short term.

The TGA forum is the expressway to getting AOS pushed into the esport category, the playtesters gather there, as well as cementing Ben as an official voice so I would be highly skeptical that it is actually gone for reasons outside of technical issues outside of his control.

And we’re back up!

Crazy how we get into routines and don’t realize how much we use certain things. I was jonesing for some TGA for the past 2-3 days.

 nels1031 wrote:
And we’re back up!

Crazy how we get into routines and don’t realize how much we use certain things. I was jonesing for some TGA for the past 2-3 days.

Considering how AOS on dakka is nearly nonexistant, me too! Nice to have game discussions without having so much salt.

And are you sure it's up? It's still unavailable for me (and so soon after adepticon)

auticus wrote:
he TGA forum is the expressway to getting AOS pushed into the esport category

You must be joking.

I see TGA as a forum mainly to promote the AoS, with discussing it being a big feature but still secondary to the former (ironically, if they do mean to make it an 'esport' type deal). It is a great community to have around and I am glad they have their technical issues solved.

Its a great resource to have to be sure, though can get very echo chambery which is a drawback.

auticus wrote:Considering Ben Curry, the guy that runs it, is besties with the aos design team and is one of the paramount figures in pushing AOS into sponsored esport territory,

I hope not.
We had/have (not sure if some of it is still clinging to relevance) an organisation in South Africa that runs historical wargaming as a "mindsport". They can even award national colours. Very few people take it seriously and it seems to be a bit of a sham. It's a hobby and people go off to do their own thing if you try to add regulation.

Also, AoS is not a great game for competitive play because GW can't be bothered to write clear rules or balance their games.

auticus wrote:
Its a great resource to have to be sure, though can get very echo chambery which is a drawback.

Dakka tends to be a bit more toxic because people tend to disagree more.

Now if people were simply smart enough to at least accept that I am always right even if they don't understand why I am right we wouldn't have this issue! [/sarcasm]

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
And we’re back up!

Crazy how we get into routines and don’t realize how much we use certain things. I was jonesing for some TGA for the past 2-3 days.

Considering how AOS on dakka is nearly nonexistant, me too! Nice to have game discussions without having so much salt.

And are you sure it's up? It's still unavailable for me (and so soon after adepticon)

It's up for me, and I agree. I got to TGA for 99% of the AOS discussions.

auticus wrote:
Considering Ben Curry, the guy that runs it, is besties with the aos design team

Come to figure, if GW is getting their feedback from TGA it makes sense why the game is so horridly imbalanced. No disrespect to TGA but the positive-focus can undermine their own goals if not done correctly.

Sasori wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
And we’re back up!

Crazy how we get into routines and don’t realize how much we use certain things. I was jonesing for some TGA for the past 2-3 days.

Considering how AOS on dakka is nearly nonexistant, me too! Nice to have game discussions without having so much salt.

And are you sure it's up? It's still unavailable for me (and so soon after adepticon)

It's up for me, and I agree. I got to TGA for 99% of the AOS discussions.

It may be my browser then, because Brave isn't showing it right now.

NinthMusketeer wrote:

auticus wrote:
Considering Ben Curry, the guy that runs it, is besties with the aos design team

Come to figure, if GW is getting their feedback from TGA it makes sense why the game is so horridly imbalanced. No disrespect to TGA but the positive-focus can undermine their own goals if not done correctly.

You're right we need some of that good old fashion dakkaness on the board

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

auticus wrote:
Considering Ben Curry, the guy that runs it, is besties with the aos design team

Come to figure, if GW is getting their feedback from TGA it makes sense why the game is so horridly imbalanced. No disrespect to TGA but the positive-focus can undermine their own goals if not done correctly.

You can be possible and still give criticism... You dont have to be a dick when talking about imbalances to get your point across.

Edit: This is a response to Tiger9gamer's post

I don't know about that... I've considered joining more than once. Maybe I'm wrong, but I see my behavior on the forum as tending towards abrasive, pretentious, combative, stubborn, with an undercurrent of actually useful logic. I'm always trying to get better about it, but right now I fit in better here

The way I see it TGA is a better representation of the AoS community. It tends towards positive because players tend towards casual, and that is where AoS really shines as a fun game. There is nothing wrong with that, if anything quite a lot right. I tend towards 'gears and numbers' in my discussions, I read a book and immediately pick out the good and the bad, etc. It's a mechanical viewpoint that I don't think TGA is really about.

I comment about TGA being bad for balance because when it comes to game balance getting feedback from a majority-casul community should be a secondary source. Feedback for balance should come first from areas where it is not working and where people are not happy, because improving that improves the balance for everyone; the casual players who were not having problems still do not have problems, while the players frustrated with imbalance have an improved game experience.

Dunno if any of the above makes sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

auticus wrote:
Considering Ben Curry, the guy that runs it, is besties with the aos design team

Come to figure, if GW is getting their feedback from TGA it makes sense why the game is so horridly imbalanced. No disrespect to TGA but the positive-focus can undermine their own goals if not done correctly.

You can be possible and still give criticism... You dont have to be a dick when talking about imbalances to get your point across.

I try not to be, and a difficulty I run into is phrasing things such that they come across more abrasive than I mean them.

 DarkBlack wrote:

auticus wrote:Considering Ben Curry, the guy that runs it, is besties with the aos design team and is one of the paramount figures in pushing AOS into sponsored esport territory,

I hope not.
We had/have (not sure if some of it is still clinging to relevance) an organisation in South Africa that runs historical wargaming as a "mindsport". They can even award national colours. Very few people take it seriously and it seems to be a bit of a sham. It's a hobby and people go off to do their own thing if you try to add regulation.

Also, AoS is not a great game for competitive play because GW can't be bothered to write clear rules or balance their games.

If you do a search on Ben's twitter or youtube or even some of his TGA sports you will see his goal is to get endorsements and the whole 9 into AOS. He is very much the spearhead of getting ESPN contracts for AOS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

auticus wrote:
Considering Ben Curry, the guy that runs it, is besties with the aos design team

Come to figure, if GW is getting their feedback from TGA it makes sense why the game is so horridly imbalanced. No disrespect to TGA but the positive-focus can undermine their own goals if not done correctly.

After my banning, take this with because this is 3rd person relaying this, one of the guys messaged me on twitter and said it was largely because they wanted a positive place for the developers to not get slagged about bad balance, etc... and that the game was in a great place and they didn't want the game to change and that people like me were deemed toxic because they didn't want the developers to take the negative commentary seriously and to keep going on the track they've been going on.

I don't think its undermining their goals at all. I think their goals were to keep AOS chugging away from traditional wargaming tropes, and move it as deep as possible into board game and CCG tropes and any voices to the contrary were toxic to that desire. Granted I cannot read the TGA boards but as it is related to me from 3rd parties, its pretty much sunshine and rainbows on that front now with people saying the balance is super great, and the gameplay should have been implemented and killed of whfb years ago and its sad that it was waited this long to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I don't know about that... I've considered joining more than once. Maybe I'm wrong, but I see my behavior on the forum as tending towards abrasive, pretentious, combative, stubborn, with an undercurrent of actually useful logic

Unless their moderation has changed, you would be given a warning within 30 days or so of posting likely. If you continued to post negative commentary you would be banned.

Thats assuming you post on there like you do on here, just as I post on here like I used to post on there. How we post broke their guidelines and rules about negative commentary.

Really? Because recently I have seen talks about how the double turn effects game balance, with lots of discussion back and forth about people's oppinions on it. There also is quite a bit on faction's terrain and endless spells, and unfettered opinions on them.

Plus, a lot of people complaining about FEC and Skaven, pretty much since it came out. As long as you dont act like a jerk it seems discussion is good.

It's not even that, it's more like the forum is for more positive people than I am and I don't want to mess it up.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Really? Because recently I have seen talks about how the double turn effects game balance, with lots of discussion back and forth about people's oppinions on it. There also is quite a bit on faction's terrain and endless spells, and unfettered opinions on them.

Plus, a lot of people complaining about FEC and Skaven, pretty much since it came out. As long as you dont act like a jerk it seems discussion is good.

It may have changed, I was kicked off there over a year ago. When I was on, just posting balance threads like we do here was enough to get moderators sending warnings and Ben creating threads saying this place is for positivity not complaining about the game and threatening to ban people that were creating negative threads.

The offending thread that I got kicked off for was responding to another poster who created a thread complaining about balance and I replied I agreed and wrote a paragraph about the bell curve on the point system etc, and 30 minutes later when I went to see how the discussion was going it said I was banned (and I got the twitter message a day later from someone else on that forum explaining why). Now I had been warned before for posting threads or replying in threads about bad balance so I'm not saying out of the blue I just got banned, but they were VERY against posting negative comments about bad balance or hating the double turn or anything that was negative about AOS.

The guideline then was very explictly if you want to complain about the game, go to BOLS or Dakka or Facebook, and TGA was for positive constructive posts only. It was an echo chamber when I was on it.

If its changed and you can freely discuss things like how the double turn negatively impacts the game, or balance is crazy, then they've lightened up quite a bit (which is good).

auticus wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Really? Because recently I have seen talks about how the double turn effects game balance, with lots of discussion back and forth about people's oppinions on it. There also is quite a bit on faction's terrain and endless spells, and unfettered opinions on them.

Plus, a lot of people complaining about FEC and Skaven, pretty much since it came out. As long as you dont act like a jerk it seems discussion is good.

It may have changed, I was kicked off there over a year ago. When I was on, just posting balance threads like we do here was enough to get moderators sending warnings and Ben creating threads saying this place is for positivity not complaining about the game and threatening to ban people that were creating negative threads.

The offending thread that I got kicked off for was responding to another poster who created a thread complaining about balance and I replied I agreed and wrote a paragraph about the bell curve on the point system etc, and 30 minutes later when I went to see how the discussion was going it said I was banned (and I got the twitter message a day later from someone else on that forum explaining why). Now I had been warned before for posting threads or replying in threads about bad balance so I'm not saying out of the blue I just got banned, but they were VERY against posting negative comments about bad balance or hating the double turn or anything that was negative about AOS.

The guideline then was very explictly if you want to complain about the game, go to BOLS or Dakka or Facebook, and TGA was for positive constructive posts only. It was an echo chamber when I was on it.

If its changed and you can freely discuss things like how the double turn negatively impacts the game, or balance is crazy, then they've lightened up quite a bit (which is good).

Its nothing like that now, i do mathhammer, compare, etc.. I even complain and see complaining all the time.

Well at least for BoC and Deepkin.

I admit my opinions are also dated, though not as much. I have not read much this year.

Post are slow, so i get on once a week. I talk just how i do on dakka lol.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

auticus wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Really? Because recently I have seen talks about how the double turn effects game balance, with lots of discussion back and forth about people's oppinions on it. There also is quite a bit on faction's terrain and endless spells, and unfettered opinions on them.

Plus, a lot of people complaining about FEC and Skaven, pretty much since it came out. As long as you dont act like a jerk it seems discussion is good.

It may have changed, I was kicked off there over a year ago. When I was on, just posting balance threads like we do here was enough to get moderators sending warnings and Ben creating threads saying this place is for positivity not complaining about the game and threatening to ban people that were creating negative threads.

The offending thread that I got kicked off for was responding to another poster who created a thread complaining about balance and I replied I agreed and wrote a paragraph about the bell curve on the point system etc, and 30 minutes later when I went to see how the discussion was going it said I was banned (and I got the twitter message a day later from someone else on that forum explaining why). Now I had been warned before for posting threads or replying in threads about bad balance so I'm not saying out of the blue I just got banned, but they were VERY against posting negative comments about bad balance or hating the double turn or anything that was negative about AOS.

The guideline then was very explictly if you want to complain about the game, go to BOLS or Dakka or Facebook, and TGA was for positive constructive posts only. It was an echo chamber when I was on it.

If its changed and you can freely discuss things like how the double turn negatively impacts the game, or balance is crazy, then they've lightened up quite a bit (which is good).

Its nothing like that now, i do mathhammer, compare, etc.. I even complain and see complaining all the time.

Well at least for BoC and Deepkin.

Yea! deepkin represent! We're the saltiest of the elves by design!

honestly if the alopex were remotely better there would be a lot less complaining. That and the Leviadon. Just want Gw leave the morrsarr alone and change everything else!

But Deepkin are overpowered and do quite well at tournaments!

With eel builds. And nothing else.

NinthMusketeer wrote:

auticus wrote:
Considering Ben Curry, the guy that runs it, is besties with the aos design team

Come to figure, if GW is getting their feedback from TGA it makes sense why the game is so horridly imbalanced. No disrespect to TGA but the positive-focus can undermine their own goals if not done correctly.

Frankly, I don't think GW puts even that much effort into balance.
It's obviously not a priority for GW games. Not the kind of game they're making or model they're following. Which is also a way to make a game.
Warhammers are mist enjoyable when played casually, but people insist on making a competitive scene for it.

On the positivity of TGA:
Remember that there was A LOT of negativity toward AoS at first.
Saying that you played and (gasp) enjoyed AoS on the internet (or around wargamers at the FLGS) was met with what a terrible game it is, how GW must never be forgiven for killing the Old World and other assorted gnashing of teeth.
TGA was a relief in that you could have an actual conversation about AoS, so they had to keep it positive.

I assume it's evolved since then? I got fed up with GW and got out of Warhammer so haven't been keeping upm

They are activity trying to balance, they just sent a full year on how to balance all the new battletomes....

AoS for any newer battletome (the past year) is actively balance with each other. Why go back and balance old armies mechanics if they are working on getting new books for them? That just slows down the process.

Go watch their Podcast 2nd episode, they outline how they are now balancing battletomes.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
But Deepkin are overpowered and do quite well at tournaments!

With eel builds. And nothing else.

So everything needs to be brought up to Eel-height power? Because that's how you end up with books like FEC...

I actually appreciate TGA forums quite a bit. Excessive complaining will get you banned, yes, but it's not like you cannot voice your criticism there. You just have to also be accepting that people will be critical of your criticism (or just flat out not agree)... And when that happens, some people (of the know-it-all type) often venture in "ban-able offenses" with their language.

I also appreciate the fact that TGA tends to be slightly more international than Dakka. There's vast differences in what dominates in the competitive scenes/tournaments depending on the country the tournament takes place in, so there's a bit more of broad perspective of the game there.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
They are activity trying to balance, they just sent a full year on how to balance all the new battletomes....

AoS for any newer battletome (the past year) is actively balance with each other. Why go back and balance old armies mechanics if they are working on getting new books for them? That just slows down the process.

Go watch their Podcast 2nd episode, they outline how they are now balancing battletomes.

The new battletomes are not balanced with each other, though. That is the problem.