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Each player puts 1 token in a bag for each unit they have on the battlefield (or otherwise capable of action such as inside a transport) or is eligible to arrive onto the battlefield that turn (i.e. Turn 1 tokens for each unit on the battlefield, Turn 2+ one for each unit on the battlefield + any set up off the battlefield).

Each player has a different coloured token, for this exercise lets call them Blue and Red.

A token is randomly selected from the bag.

The player who is the opposite colour of the token pulled decides which player gets to activate a unit. (This is to mitigate the advantage of having a hoard army or MSU, whoever has fewer units gets to decide the order of activation until it balances out). If the player who is deciding has no units left to activate, then the player who is not deciding is automatically chosen. The player who is chosen to activate a unit decides which of their units to activate.

The token is then put aside for the remainder of the battle round.

Each player gets to go though the full turn structure (Move, Psychic, Shoot, Charge, Fight) a unit when they are chosen to activate a unit. Remember that even when activated, a unit is not obligated to actually do anything. For example, you can choose to activate a unit inside a transport, and not disembark (and thus do nothing else that turn) with them. The exception is if a unit is within 1" of an enemy unit when activated, it must either choose to Fall Back or to Fight (at least one must be selected, special rules may allow them to do both if they so wish).

Morale is resolved after all units have finished activating.

Every time a unit is destroyed, the controlling player discards one of their activation tokens. Every time a unit is spawned, generated, summoned etc. that player adds an activation token of their colour.

Whenever a unit is activated, one CHARACTER within 3" of that unit may be activated at the same time (remove an additional token of the opposing players colour as described previously). Resolve each sub-step for each unit (i.e. Move both units first, shoot both units, etc) individually. The CHARACTER and unit may activate these substeps in any order (e.g. you can choose to shoot with the CHARACTER first, then the unit, then charge with the unit, then charge with the CHARACTER).

Could be easier to just write Space Marine Army list for Bolt Action instead of adopting some BA rules to 40k

But it works well as in the local Club we used basic BA rules for 40k during 7th edition from time to time.

If you want to do quick-and-dirty BA rules I'd suggest limiting the turn to move-shoot, move-advance, or charge-fight the way Bolt Action does it rather than allowing each activation to be move-shoot-charge-fight.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
If you want to do quick-and-dirty BA rules I'd suggest limiting the turn to move-shoot, move-advance, or charge-fight the way Bolt Action does it rather than allowing each activation to be move-shoot-charge-fight.

Unlike BA, 40k units are priced based on their ability to perform in every phase. It's not so simple to just have 40k units act in BAs structure. You would need to reprice everything based on the available actions. Or, you could just let the models act as they would in 40k and then you don't have to change anything.

 Lance845 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
If you want to do quick-and-dirty BA rules I'd suggest limiting the turn to move-shoot, move-advance, or charge-fight the way Bolt Action does it rather than allowing each activation to be move-shoot-charge-fight.

Unlike BA, 40k units are priced based on their ability to perform in every phase. It's not so simple to just have 40k units act in BAs structure. You would need to reprice everything based on the available actions. Or, you could just let the models act as they would in 40k and then you don't have to change anything.

This. Something like a wraithlord wants to run up to you, shoot you, and punch you, not just two of those three. Something like a terminator librarian probably wants to add casting a power to that list too.

This AA system seems pretty reasonable. My biggest reservations about it are:

1.) A little bad luck could means that your opponent gets to wail on you with several of his most lethal units before you get a chance to react. Letting me hit you with my shining spears, dark reapers, and Yvraine (to shoot the dark reapers again) back-to-back halfway through the game could potentially reintroduce or even worsen the problems of the current turn system.

2.) For some reason, sticking my hand in the same bag as my opponent over and over again feels kind of gross and unhygienic. And my local player base actually has pretty good hygiene!

The idea you have implemented really favours elite armies more than hordes - go to the extremes; 20 units of chaff vs 2 knights. The knight will almost certainly activate before a single chaff gets to go, and you're back to IGOUGO but with a guaranteed first turn for the ultra-elite.

Wyldhunt wrote:

2.) For some reason, sticking my hand in the same bag as my opponent over and over again feels kind of gross and unhygienic. And my local player base actually has pretty good hygiene!

I wonder if this could be mitigated by making some sort of roll off...

The aim is for the army with the least units to get a little bit of a head start (and so counter the idea of MSU + the one unit you want to activate first having an advantage). You want to randomly pick who goes each turn, but without crippling the guy with loads of models. I'm thinking you could have the players roll 2D6 and then add the number of units they activated already, and whoever rolls lowest wins. This means the turn starts equal, and then starts to favour whoever has done the least from then on.

Another way to work with your original idea would be to limit each player to a maximum of 2 or 3 activations in a row.

With this, you can also add in a stratagem system where you can "bid" to steal the activation - if player 1 decides to activate, player 2 can spend 1 CP to activate instead. Player 1 may pay 2CP to steal it back, etcetera. gives people a little bit of influence over the game.

Alternatively, allow each player to steal the activation once per battle round, for free. the player who's colour token is picked may choose to steal this, before the other player decides who will go. the other player can't steal it back.

I do think that this would work quite well, all in all.

Generally, I like the idea presented in the OP, its very similar to one I've been working on myself.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Whenever a unit is activated, one CHARACTER within 3" of that unit may be activated at the same time (remove an additional token of the opposing players colour as described previously). Resolve each sub-step for each unit (i.e. Move both units first, shoot both units, etc) individually. The CHARACTER and unit may activate these substeps in any order (e.g. you can choose to shoot with the CHARACTER first, then the unit, then charge with the unit, then charge with the CHARACTER).

I would actually have gone the other way on this: Whenever a CHARACTER is activated, you may activate on other unit within 3" at the same time. This other unit cannot also be a CHARACTER.
So, you know, your leaders are actually sort of doing some leading! (and for some armies it takes away some sting from the 'HQ tax') I'd almost consider allowing it to be one TROOPS unit, plus any other non-CHARACTER unit.


One main issue with the tokens-per-unit activation, is it heavily favors MSU type armies. So if I take a Castellan, and as much cheap IG as I can get my hands on, I can significantly increase my odds of getting to use my Knight before my opponent can do anything, every game round. To limit this you could only allow as many tokens for each side, as the side with the smallest number of units +1. Then either have one player not able to activate all his units, or have them activate any that are left, once all tokens have been drawn.

Again the Bolt Action idea that commanding units when activated can choose to activate a certain number more units with them.
Command dice would work well for each unit for keeping track of shooting only, move, advance and overwatch (as charged I guess).

It is the next logical step I would think to make it a better game.

Wyldhunt wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
If you want to do quick-and-dirty BA rules I'd suggest limiting the turn to move-shoot, move-advance, or charge-fight the way Bolt Action does it rather than allowing each activation to be move-shoot-charge-fight.

Unlike BA, 40k units are priced based on their ability to perform in every phase. It's not so simple to just have 40k units act in BAs structure. You would need to reprice everything based on the available actions. Or, you could just let the models act as they would in 40k and then you don't have to change anything.

This. Something like a wraithlord wants to run up to you, shoot you, and punch you, not just two of those three. Something like a terminator librarian probably wants to add casting a power to that list too.

This AA system seems pretty reasonable. My biggest reservations about it are:

1.) A little bad luck could means that your opponent gets to wail on you with several of his most lethal units before you get a chance to react. Letting me hit you with my shining spears, dark reapers, and Yvraine (to shoot the dark reapers again) back-to-back halfway through the game could potentially reintroduce or even worsen the problems of the current turn system.

2.) For some reason, sticking my hand in the same bag as my opponent over and over again feels kind of gross and unhygienic. And my local player base actually has pretty good hygiene!

Sort of. My problem with this logic is that most jack-of-all-trades units in 40k at the moment are already overpriced because of the inherent trade-offs of moving to melee versus shooting, and when given the option between a flexible unit and a specialized unit on the same chassis it's pretty much always better to take the specialized one (ex. ML/lascannon Dreadnaught versus paying for the melee weapon, relative usefulness of Knights-Gallant/Crusader versus sword-and-gun loadouts...). It's true that you'd need to re-price some units to compensate, but most of them needed re-pricing anyways.

Except basically every Ork unit wants to run forward shooting and then charge into combat. Can you picture how fethed the entire ork dex would be if they had to choose between the 2?

 some bloke wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:

2.) For some reason, sticking my hand in the same bag as my opponent over and over again feels kind of gross and unhygienic. And my local player base actually has pretty good hygiene!

I wonder if this could be mitigated by making some sort of roll off...

Or use a standard deck of cards, one player gets black, other is red; shuffle and draw a card for each activation to see who gets to go. (Though I suppose it won't work if either player has more than 26 units!)

 Lance845 wrote:
Except basically every Ork unit wants to run forward shooting and then charge into combat. Can you picture how fethed the entire ork dex would be if they had to choose between the 2?

I was under the impression that the Orks are divided into units that want to shoot more than they want to reach melee (Flash Gitz, Lootas, Mek Guns, Tankbustas, vehicles) and units that want to get to melee more than they want to shoot (Boyz, characters, Nobz, bikes) like the rest of us, but I will admit to not having read the newest Codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kcalehc wrote:

 some bloke wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:

2.) For some reason, sticking my hand in the same bag as my opponent over and over again feels kind of gross and unhygienic. And my local player base actually has pretty good hygiene!

I wonder if this could be mitigated by making some sort of roll off...

Or use a standard deck of cards, one player gets black, other is red; shuffle and draw a card for each activation to see who gets to go. (Though I suppose it won't work if either player has more than 26 units!)

...Two packs of cards?

BaconCatBug wrote:The player who is the opposite colour of the token pulled decides which player gets to activate a unit. (This is to mitigate the advantage of having a hoard army or MSU, whoever has fewer units gets to decide the order of activation until it balances out). If the player who is deciding has no units left to activate, then the player who is not deciding is automatically chosen. The player who is chosen to activate a unit decides which of their units to activate.

I would say this gives too much power to players with 2 or 3 units, because if your opponent has 20, you can hide your units behind cover and force them to waste a ton of their units activations being unable to hit you, then darting out of cover when you even up. This could be an interesting mechanic for GSC or if you have an assassin in your army, but definitely not the default.

some bloke wrote:The idea you have implemented really favours elite armies more than hordes - go to the extremes; 20 units of chaff vs 2 knights. The knight will almost certainly activate before a single chaff gets to go, and you're back to IGOUGO but with a guaranteed first turn for the ultra-elite.

AA offers a great choice to really make tanks and titans play differently than infantry by getting more than 1 activation token and needing more than one activation to be completely activated. Tanks could be able to fire secondary weapons or move with a single activation, but may need an activation to aim their primary weapon or else take a heavy to-hit penalty. Titans could need a turn to divert power to weapons by storing activation token(s) before firing a weapon. If we bring back the vehicle damage table, you could even damage a weapon system after it has been "charged", which would mean that stored activation token is lost. If you bring back blast and flamer templates, titans could essentially "overwatch" their weapons by storing an activation token and "aiming" a template at an area, acting as area denial.

 Rav1rn wrote:
I would say this gives too much power to players with 2 or 3 units, because if your opponent has 20, you can hide your units behind cover and force them to waste a ton of their units activations being unable to hit you, then darting out of cover when you even up.

Yeah, but this works only for one turn.

Armies with low amount of units may have the advantage early on as the other player needs to get into position but the longer the game runs the more advantage has the player with more units

Of course 40k in tournament envoirnment were you reach the time limit after turn 3 and never play a full game is something different, but overall the elite faction or armies with just 2-3 units have the big disadvantage with such an activation system and can be easily overrun by tactic or pure mass

Just ask those Bolt Action players who use a Tiger tank in regular games (which would be comparable to a Knight) and how hard it is to win games with such a small force.

PS:
This is not exclusive for a Bolt Action like system, all alternate activations favour the force with more possible activations and usually have additional rules to help the elite armies with less drops.

the problems people see here with Knights or armies with 2-3 units a just problems that happens in one turn, but with such a system people need to think ahead and build up tactics for severall turns.

Starship Troopers used alteranting activations without limited actions and a force with 3 elite units (comparable to Knights) still struggeld against a force with pure mass (100+ bugs) that only used melee and was an easy win for the later if the Mobile Infantry player made mistakes early on.