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So... I have a theory (ready to be shot down of course) to fix the imperium (in some ways at least).

My two theories are this:

Put a geller field around the web-way breach under the imperial palace...hell, but a hundred star-ship gellerfields under there with multiple redundancies. This free's up maybe some of the thousand pyskers each day getting burnt out, and maybe some of the GEOM daily todo list.

Create a network of astronomicans. I am guessing the IOM can build / design psychic amplifiers (like librarians use) - so I am sure they could cobble up a machine that, say for example, 1000 psykers can connect to and power it safely so that they can do it for years (say 10 years ave) before they burn out. Maybe we need one per subsector since they will be much less powerful then the golden throne - there are maybe a few hundred subsectors (?) call it 200 - therefore 200,000 pykers for each 10 years is less then what the golden throne consumes (356 * 1000 * 10 years = 3,560,000). This would also have some redundancy in the system. Maybe also build a few giant ones that need 10,000 psykers for central hubs and what not.

With these two things in place, they could let the Emps die... and see what happens. Maybe the web way can be reopened for business under the place (patched with gellerfeilds) and in the mean time space travel is still on going with Guilliman in charge, and possibly the return of the GEOM as a man or a god, and maybe someone wakes up the Lion and a couple other Primarchs come back. Plus with maybe x10 the number of space marines (primaris) being pumped out....

Obviously this would take a century or so, but why would any of these things not be possible?
This also assume Guilliman + co can keep the IOM together for another 100 yrs - but he has proved he can already.

Anyway, that was my thought...

The reason its not possible is that the technology to do any of this is lost.

Last time i recall pretty much all warp capable ships are literally irreplaceable tech.

It would be easier and probably more possible to ask the necrons to put up the pylons again considering the admechs probably wont study nor replicate them do it due to their techno religion.

Not sure about the feasibility of the first, but the idea of turning a bunch of Astronomicans into astral beacons is like ringing the dinner bell for a horde of demons to come snuff the poor soul out.

And why would you want to save the Imperium in the first place? It’s the cause of a lot of the galaxy’s woes in the first place, and if they’d just move on from the Emperor’s mistakes (I.e., tear down the existing Imperium, move the capital and purge the old one with exterminatus), they might be able to fix the issues.

The tragedy of 40K is the stagnation that the Imperium has imposed will eventually be its downfall.

 Desubot wrote:
The reason its not possible is that the technology to do any of this is lost.

Last time i recall pretty much all warp capable ships are literally irreplaceable tech.

The fluff has a lunar cruiser built by a feral or feudal world. The main shipyards are pumping warp capable ships out all the time, or else the imperium would maybe last a few weeks given the attrition on their shipping.

If the warp breach is inside the geller field to start with, that ain't gonna work...

Enjoy your execution by phosphex bath for heresy.

Well... as far as I have read about we can build new space ships and all the parts to do so (gellerfields, warpdrives etc...) a quick search yeilds : https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/comments/1se6cx/warhammer_40k_does_the_imperium_have_the_ability/

And I know IOM has the ability to make less pychic amplifiers (such as space marins librarians hoods) I reckon someone like Cawl could knock something together.

One thing that might stop that happening would be the mechanicum dragging their feet, but I am sure they could be persuaded.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
Not sure about the feasibility of the first, but the idea of turning a bunch of Astronomicans into astral beacons is like ringing the dinner bell for a horde of demons to come snuff the poor soul out.

And why would you want to save the Imperium in the first place? It’s the cause of a lot of the galaxy’s woes in the first place, and if they’d just move on from the Emperor’s mistakes (I.e., tear down the existing Imperium, move the capital and purge the old one with exterminatus), they might be able to fix the issues.

The tragedy of 40K is the stagnation that the Imperium has imposed will eventually be its downfall.

That's a fair point about the warp eating their souls... I guess the Emps protects the main astronomincan... more gellerfields!?

Also, why save the IOM .... cuz, its so cool! (don't want to live there myself mind)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
If the warp breach is inside the geller field to start with, that ain't gonna work...

... put geller fields all around the breach and just work around it?

You are badly missing the point of the entire setting.

The Imperium is not meant to be fixed, it was very intentionally designed and portrayed as a dystopian nightmare (and the whole thing breaks down rapidly once you start to analyze it even a little bit). Fixing it would defeat the purpose of the setting.

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.

The Imperium would be easy to fix if those dumb loyalists would just dispose of their false emperor and make Abbadon the Warmaster and true Emperor of Mankind.

But nnnnoooo, humanity doesn't want to have the free will to choose one of the four gods to worship or even all four as Chaos Undivided. And they don't want to interact with so called Daemons or Chaos corruption. Instead the citizens of the Imperium seem to want to get exterminatus-ed rather than just accept these truths. Ungrateful of the gifts of Chaos is what that is. Under Chaos everyone has an equal chance of becoming a Daemon Prince if they just work hard enough at it. If you happen to die or become a spawn, well you just didn't work hard enough and deserved your fate.

have an exalt

 Peregrine wrote:
You are badly missing the point of the entire setting.

He is to an extent, but he's not wrong in pointing out that solutions exist to many of the big problems.

Stasis technology is common enough to be used for food storage and is an easy solution to most powerful foes. Weaponising it beyond grenades using existing STC should be fairly straightforward.

Gellarfields exist- and could conceivably be introduced on a Planetary level to prevent teleportation and daemon incursion.
The fact that they have been proven to be vulnerable to nurgle exploits and aren't 100% effective is no reason to not be using them (like condoms)

A network of astronomicons (warp beacons) does exist, but not at the scale required.

The setting requires that all of these fail in order for drama to occur, but that's no reason they shouldn't exist in the background as valiant, doomed attempts to put chaos or necrons in a bottle.

As to starships- while the background presents them as ancient treasures with storied careers, it also has them being built and exploding. The setting requires ships as gateways to adventure just as surely as it requires all he above to fail.

Therefore human ships are fairly easy to build by reasonably skilled worlds and navigators are the limiting factor.

I'm just going to answer the title: after some idiot broke the Imperium in half there isn't enough Flex Tape in the universe to fix that mess.

 =Angel= wrote:
Gellarfields exist- and could conceivably be introduced on a Planetary level to prevent teleportation and daemon incursion.
The fact that they have been proven to be vulnerable to nurgle exploits and aren't 100% effective is no reason to not be using them (like condoms)

I will now refer to Gellar Fields as Warp Condoms.

A Gellar Field in the palace likely could affect the Astronomicon. Which would be doublely ungood.

It's more fun unfixed, or with just a couple of guys trying to fix it while everyone else is doing the opposite.

Also, for the astronomica, there is an iom tech that enables warp travel without using the astronomica nor the navigators... I would focus on that.

CapRichard wrote:
It's more fun unfixed, or with just a couple of guys trying to fix it while everyone else is doing the opposite.

Also, for the astronomica, there is an iom tech that enables warp travel without using the astronomica nor the navigators... I would focus on that.

Too bad the only person who knows how to make -that- work is stuck on the Golden Throne.

bolter_fodder wrote:
So... I have a theory (ready to be shot down of course) to fix the imperium (in some ways at least).

My two theories are this:

Put a geller field around the web-way breach under the imperial palace...hell, but a hundred star-ship gellerfields under there with multiple redundancies. This free's up maybe some of the thousand pyskers each day getting burnt out, and maybe some of the GEOM daily todo list.

Create a network of astronomicans. I am guessing the IOM can build / design psychic amplifiers (like librarians use) - so I am sure they could cobble up a machine that, say for example, 1000 psykers can connect to and power it safely so that they can do it for years (say 10 years ave) before they burn out. Maybe we need one per subsector since they will be much less powerful then the golden throne - there are maybe a few hundred subsectors (?) call it 200 - therefore 200,000 pykers for each 10 years is less then what the golden throne consumes (356 * 1000 * 10 years = 3,560,000). This would also have some redundancy in the system. Maybe also build a few giant ones that need 10,000 psykers for central hubs and what not.

With these two things in place, they could let the Emps die... and see what happens. Maybe the web way can be reopened for business under the place (patched with gellerfeilds) and in the mean time space travel is still on going with Guilliman in charge, and possibly the return of the GEOM as a man or a god, and maybe someone wakes up the Lion and a couple other Primarchs come back. Plus with maybe x10 the number of space marines (primaris) being pumped out....

Obviously this would take a century or so, but why would any of these things not be possible?
This also assume Guilliman + co can keep the IOM together for another 100 yrs - but he has proved he can already.

Anyway, that was my thought...

The first point - basically they are. The hollow mountain doesn't project the astronomican itself or hold the breach closed; the emperor does, it just supplied additional power to reduce the strain on him.

The wards holding the breach are sufficiently powerful (due to the soul-incineration powering them and the archeotech used in building them) that gellar fields aren't even vaguely in the same order of magnitude of strength. I have no doubt that there is the equivalent of thousands of gellar fields down there already; but the breach is already there; trying to hold it closed by adding more is like saying "don't worry about the oncoming tsunami - we took away the reinforced concrete storm-wall, but here's some papier mache."

Astronomican relays do exist. But the key thing, again, is that they're a relay; they don't create it - the emperor does that - just redirect or reinforce it, usually where a storm obscures a direct sight of terra.
So, yes, I'm pretty sure if they want to keep Imperium Nihilus alive they're going to be investing in them in a big way. One side effect of a tenth of the galaxy being warp-storm is that I'm assuming the incidence of psykers being born is going up quite a lot....

 ClockworkZion wrote:
A Gellar Field in the palace likely could affect the Astronomicon. Which would be doublely ungood.

Doubleplus ungood. This is a trufax.

I think if people feel there's some simple and obvious solution to the Imperium's problems, then that is a pretty damning indictment of the quality of GW's current writing team.

 Stormonu wrote:
Not sure about the feasibility of the first, but the idea of turning a bunch of Astronomicans into astral beacons is like ringing the dinner bell for a horde of demons to come snuff the poor soul out.

And why would you want to save the Imperium in the first place? It’s the cause of a lot of the galaxy’s woes in the first place, and if they’d just move on from the Emperor’s mistakes (I.e., tear down the existing Imperium, move the capital and purge the old one with exterminatus), they might be able to fix the issues.

The tragedy of 40K is the stagnation that the Imperium has imposed will eventually be its downfall.

Don't blame the Imperium for the Galaxy's problems, blame the Eldar, they're the ones who started all this chaos nonsense, the Imperium was created solely for the purpose of getting rid of it, and if that means having some necessary evils than so be it.

 Jazzylee wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Not sure about the feasibility of the first, but the idea of turning a bunch of Astronomicans into astral beacons is like ringing the dinner bell for a horde of demons to come snuff the poor soul out.

And why would you want to save the Imperium in the first place? It’s the cause of a lot of the galaxy’s woes in the first place, and if they’d just move on from the Emperor’s mistakes (I.e., tear down the existing Imperium, move the capital and purge the old one with exterminatus), they might be able to fix the issues.

The tragedy of 40K is the stagnation that the Imperium has imposed will eventually be its downfall.

Don't blame the Imperium for the Galaxy's problems, blame the Eldar, they're the ones who started all this chaos nonsense, the Imperium was created solely for the purpose of getting rid of it, and if that means having some necessary evils than so be it.

Necrons started the Chaos nonsense. The Imperium exists because the big E is basically a huge xenophobe.

pm713 wrote:

 Jazzylee wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Not sure about the feasibility of the first, but the idea of turning a bunch of Astronomicans into astral beacons is like ringing the dinner bell for a horde of demons to come snuff the poor soul out.

And why would you want to save the Imperium in the first place? It’s the cause of a lot of the galaxy’s woes in the first place, and if they’d just move on from the Emperor’s mistakes (I.e., tear down the existing Imperium, move the capital and purge the old one with exterminatus), they might be able to fix the issues.

The tragedy of 40K is the stagnation that the Imperium has imposed will eventually be its downfall.

Don't blame the Imperium for the Galaxy's problems, blame the Eldar, they're the ones who started all this chaos nonsense, the Imperium was created solely for the purpose of getting rid of it, and if that means having some necessary evils than so be it.

Necrons started the Chaos nonsense. The Imperium exists because the big E is basically a huge xenophobe.

Everything was ticking over fine until the Eldar murder-consummated Slaanesh into being.

Putting aside on whether it can be done it shouldn't. You fix the IOM and you destroy the setting, though GW is well on it's way of doing that already.

pm713 wrote:

 Jazzylee wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Not sure about the feasibility of the first, but the idea of turning a bunch of Astronomicans into astral beacons is like ringing the dinner bell for a horde of demons to come snuff the poor soul out.

And why would you want to save the Imperium in the first place? It’s the cause of a lot of the galaxy’s woes in the first place, and if they’d just move on from the Emperor’s mistakes (I.e., tear down the existing Imperium, move the capital and purge the old one with exterminatus), they might be able to fix the issues.

The tragedy of 40K is the stagnation that the Imperium has imposed will eventually be its downfall.

Don't blame the Imperium for the Galaxy's problems, blame the Eldar, they're the ones who started all this chaos nonsense, the Imperium was created solely for the purpose of getting rid of it, and if that means having some necessary evils than so be it.

Necrons started the Chaos nonsense. The Imperium exists because the big E is basically a huge xenophobe.

That's because aliens in the 40k universe are the most horrible beings ever, they always backstab humanity when we least expect it. When has an Eldar ever honored an alliance? Never, like all aliens they want to kill off anything that's not them.

The Emperor may be xenophobic, but it's not without good reason.

 Jazzylee wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Jazzylee wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Not sure about the feasibility of the first, but the idea of turning a bunch of Astronomicans into astral beacons is like ringing the dinner bell for a horde of demons to come snuff the poor soul out.

And why would you want to save the Imperium in the first place? It’s the cause of a lot of the galaxy’s woes in the first place, and if they’d just move on from the Emperor’s mistakes (I.e., tear down the existing Imperium, move the capital and purge the old one with exterminatus), they might be able to fix the issues.

The tragedy of 40K is the stagnation that the Imperium has imposed will eventually be its downfall.

Don't blame the Imperium for the Galaxy's problems, blame the Eldar, they're the ones who started all this chaos nonsense, the Imperium was created solely for the purpose of getting rid of it, and if that means having some necessary evils than so be it.

Necrons started the Chaos nonsense. The Imperium exists because the big E is basically a huge xenophobe.

That's because aliens in the 40k universe are the most horrible beings ever, they always backstab humanity when we least expect it. When has an Eldar ever honored an alliance? Never, like all aliens they want to kill off anything that's not them.

The Emperor may be xenophobic, but it's not without good reason.

It really is. I'm not going to derail the thread but the fact that aliens all try and kill the Imperium off is a result of the Imperium's nature not because aliens are bad. Aliens have no choice.

Gellar fields are not rare tech, the imperium has literally millions of trade vessels that use the warp daily and replaces them with ease, then you add all the imperial navy and guard transports and you likely have hundreds of millions of vessels bouncing around at any given time, the reason the imperium can't be fixed is funnily enough the same reason we have so many shops, troops etc. Scale, the imperium is too big to fix and too big to fall.... Yet.

bolter_fodder wrote:
With these two things in place, they could let the Emps die... and see what happens.

Eh, when one of the possible outcomes is "daemons rip through the fabric of reality and devour the entire galaxy", I think it is easier to just keep things as they are.

 Peregrine wrote:
You are badly missing the point of the entire setting.

The Imperiums stagnation and eventual downfall back story is no longer true. Ever since Cawl started inventing things the fluff has done a 180

It is debateable whether even Guilliman's return is sufficient to change things on the grand scale. Guilliman is running around the galaxy putting out fires, but is he really making any difference? Does he have an endgame? Right now he is like a torch, shedding light wherever he goes, but the shadows of ignorance return whenever he leaves. Institutional inertia is a powerful thing and I could see it returning things to the old status quo as he never seems to stay still in one place long enough to enact long term reform.

One could even see that as the deliberate strategy of the Chaos gods: Keep Guilliman busy so he can never sit still long enough to fix things. Even if he beats back individual threats and thwarts the ambitions of Abaddon or Daemon Primarchs, Guilliman being fully occupied with that effectively removes him from his real strength of administrative reform.