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How do you feel about Super-Heavies in 40k?
They should be done away with.
Keep them limited to games of Apocalypse.
They should be excluded from casual games
Use as many as you want whenever
Tournament play only
Other (explain)

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Made in us
Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos





The Wastes of Krieg

Just trying to get a consensus on how people feel about these things.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Abel





Washington State

What's a super heavy?

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in us
Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos





The Wastes of Krieg

Lord of war
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gig Harbor, WA

Genie is long since out of the bottle. Just balance them for gameplay.
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Hanoi, Vietnam.

I voted "other." I don't mind super heavies in the occasional narrative game if there is a decent narrative behind it, but I don't believe they have a place in regular matched play games unless they are on very large tables at very high points. I also feel the same way about flyers.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 argonak wrote:
Genie is long since out of the bottle. Just balance them for gameplay.


This. They're part of the standard game now, like it or not, and therefore appropriate for normal games. Nerf the ones that need to be fixed for balance reasons but they aren't going anywhere.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Super heavies are fine. The issue is, as it always has been, with GW balancing specific units.

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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre



california

They are fine. Learn to deal with them or don’t play? That should of been a poll option
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





They should only be used in Apocalypse. 40K is all about the Tactical marine and other grunts and not about giant tanks & robots.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 argonak wrote:
Genie is long since out of the bottle. Just balance them for gameplay.


Problem is though that they are starting to break the scale. When things get bigger and bigger they become harder and harder to balance until it's pretty much impossible.

Titans on the other end of spectrum are pretty much impossible to balance for example. Knights are pushing the boundaries toward it and especially in smaller games are that making game's black and white knight roflstomps or are totally helpless.

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12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Strg Alt wrote:
They should only be used in Apocalypse.


Apocalypse is not a game. So they either go in normal 40k games or GW is producing models that can only be used as display pieces. And I think it's obvious which of these is the correct way of handling it.

40K is all about the Tactical marine and other grunts and not about giant tanks & robots.


Disagree. The thing that makes 40k different from other scifi games is the fact that it has the tanks and aircraft and such. If I just want a bunch of infantry I'll go play Infinity.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/17 05:54:17


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





UK

I think each to their own, and if you want to turn down a casual game because the points level doesn't lend itself to super-heavies then that's fine too.

This was a big consideration for me when choosing to put together a Renegade Kinghts list, and why I'm not including any TITANIC units at 1000 points.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/17 07:06:04


https://www.flickr.com/photos/brothercastor/
Ultramarines [800]
Chaos Knights [1500]
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran



NE Ohio, USA

They've been part of our games since 2e....
1st it was Armorcast/Epicast kits/rules, (and a WD baneblade template)
Then we added FW kits/rules, (and the vehicle creation rules out of WD/CA of 3rd/4th ed)
Nowdays we've got direct GWs kits/rules as well.

My opinion? If you've got the pts, field 'em if you want.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




What if they are very unfun to play against or you army synergies with them bad, or just not at all?


Now I don't know if heavies are breaking the game, but if they do and they were in the game for so long, maybe GW should do something about it. If they are fine, then the question is moot, as they have legal rules now, and seem to be poping up in every other lists making good money for GW. And IMO GW would only remove something making them money, if they could replace it with something that makes even more money.
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





It's too late to go back now. Imperial Knights are an army, many people have bought Wraith Knights and Baneblades expressly to use in normal 40k games.

They are part of the game to stay, so there's no use getting worked up about about it. Deal with it, or find another game frankly. Let people enjoy their big toys.

That's not to say that they're perfectly balanced in the game right now. There's definitely some work that could be done there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/17 07:39:39


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Super heavies atleast feel like they should be part of 40K heck even Titans while were way cooler in Epic make sence.

Super sonic Flyers make no sense in 40k, like realy these marines can not move this direction because flyer, and the supersonic fighter with psychic flamers WTF?

Atleast baneblades, knights, primarchs make sence.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/17 07:47:52


 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut




I don't have a problem with super heavies, but I do have a problem with skew lists, which I find very boring to play against.
A single SHV in a 1500pts game is perfectly fine, but I really dislike playing against an army of just SHV. The same goes for an army that is all but flyers, or just endless hordes.
   
Made in it
Poxed Plague Monk





Sesto San Giovanni, Italy

SH don't break the game. Player does.
And, as said above, playing against a full flyer list isn't much more fun.

I think that a stricter army composition is the solution, but considering where GW is from a standpoint of company philosophy and business practices... that will never happen.
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





fresus wrote:
I don't have a problem with super heavies, but I do have a problem with skew lists, which I find very boring to play against.
A single SHV in a 1500pts game is perfectly fine, but I really dislike playing against an army of just SHV. The same goes for an army that is all but flyers, or just endless hordes.


I would agree, except Knights as a full codex basically means that kind of skew list really needs to make sense in the game. You're right that is doesn't right now, but this is something that GW needs to address moving forward. I feel a brand new edition would be required to properly sort this though.

Removing SH from the game is not possible now. Instead we should look at adapting the game to make SH lists work - not overly problematic to either play or play against.
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Dorset, England

Some of the models are OK, and people obviously like them. My personal preference would be to keep them in apocalypse along with other models too big for a company scale wargame, like Knights, Primarchs, Flyers etc.

Basically I think you could draw a line around the Carnifex. Below that line is 40k, above is apocalypse.
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Hanoi, Vietnam.

 Peregrine wrote:
Apocalypse is not a game.
Not right now, but it soon will be.
   
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[DCM]
Executing Exarch





London, UK

I come from an edition where the biggest vehicle was a Land Raider and the inclusion of super-heavies (now Lords of War) was always a sticking point for me and made the game un-fun based on whether you or your opponent had one and the other didn't. Sure, it's great to have a big stompy dude on the table but they can be poorly balanced and it comes down to whether you can their LOW turn one or not.

They are part of the game now and I accept that, albeit grudgingly.

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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






London

They're a legitimate part of the game wherever you like it or not. The term "super-heavy" is so broad that a blanket ban will affect some units much more; a Minotaur is a pretty crappy super-heavy, not worth it's points in equivalent Basilisks, but banning it just because it's a super-heavy is ridiculous.
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Hanoi, Vietnam.

 Valkyrie wrote:
They're a legitimate part of the game wherever you like it or not. The term "super-heavy" is so broad that a blanket ban will affect some units much more; a Minotaur is a pretty crappy super-heavy, not worth it's points in equivalent Basilisks, but banning it just because it's a super-heavy is ridiculous.

I doubt anyone would actually campaign seriously in favor of banning existing models from the game; that would be a rotten injustice to players who've already invested in them, but if this new Apocalypse game turns out to be good, then maybe super heavies will find a place where everyone's happy to play them, and give people who feel they don't belong in 40k proper, a bit of breathing space.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I put other. I'd play against anyone, with anything I even have some super heavies. That said, I don't think super heavies add a whole lot. I didn't like when knights first dropped in and I felt which way the wind was blowing. I personally don't like them in standard games, in apoc they are great though. I'd never play another game of apoc with just tons of standard models, only with super heavies, so much easier and feels tons better. The game can actually finish as well, great. I'd look at them as a mixed bag.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Valkyrie wrote:
They're a legitimate part of the game wherever you like it or not. The term "super-heavy" is so broad that a blanket ban will affect some units much more; a Minotaur is a pretty crappy super-heavy, not worth it's points in equivalent Basilisks, but banning it just because it's a super-heavy is ridiculous.


They're currently a part of the game, whether we like it or not. And things can change.

Personally, I'm completely against banning anything. I think that's a dodgy move. That said, I am totally for splitting the game into formats and applying unit caps. Have a 'kitchen sink' format where anything goes, have an 'apocalypse' format where super heavies are allowed, have a 'skirmish' format where it's just dudes and walkers etc. Having one single 'anything goes' format ends up becoming problematic in terms of balance at the end of the day. Having some restrictions in terms of what can be played goes a long way.

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Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






they have been part of the game for quite a while now. with anything able to wound on a 6 I see no issue with them in any games. I do think their stratagems are too strong and the points need adjustment upwards for most of the knights (castellan by a few hundred points up)

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
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Horrific Hive Tyrant




Tampa, FL

Actual TITANIC units IMHO don't belong in "normal" 40k. Keep them relegated to Apocalypse where they belong. Non-titanic LoW (so primarchs?) are alright but pushing it.

Unfortunately, since GW took the lid off of that Pandora's box, we're stuck with them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/17 12:00:57


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






With a few exceptions (mostly the Castellan) I think they are fine and well balanced for their points cost, and would always happily play against and with them
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





The game literally doesn't have enough granularity to incorporate both guardsmen AND knights in the same scale.

If you disagree with this then you probably:
1. Have 3 knights
2. Have IG brigade and a castellan

There are ways to deal with knights, but the list specifically needs to be tailored to do so. It's hard to match point-by-point to a knight.
   
 
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