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Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot







For example
I have say, a stern guard unit with plasma etc on the flank of my army.

my opponent sets up an Ork unit 9 inches away.

Should I remind him I have auspex scan, or wait till he is done and then announce I am using it and shooting. In other words, should I give him a chance to not make a mistake?

I've often heard a player say, I wish you had told me about that, in a reproving tone of voice.

On the flip side, if you do inform your opponent about something, you end up negating parts of your army. ( I have an army build which I realized I can shoot at deepstrikes/infiltraters 3 times if the set up is correct, twice if not)


Thoughts?

.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase. 
   
Made in au
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Cutting stuff up and bunging it back together in new and interesting ways.






Under the couch

That would really depend on the level of the game involved, for me.

If you're playing on a top table in a competitive event, and you've gone through army lists and models at the start of the game, then no, I wouldn't expect an opponent to point out when I do something stupid. (as opposed to accidentally doing something against the rules, which they absolutely should point out).

In a first round against an inexperienced opponent, or in a more relaxed style tournament, yes, it's probably not going to be much fun for either of you if you go in too hard.

   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






If you are worried about the opponent being uninformed then you should be sure to inform them before the game when you are exchanging lists.

Once the game starts that is a nice thing you are considering doing but in no way required. Capitalizing on mistakes is how games shift back and forth.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.

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Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

Kind of depends on the reward for winning.

Frankly, if it's bragging rights then yeah, you let the opponent know.

If a tremendous sum of money is on the line, and all your life's wishes will come true if you win, then no. Screw that guy. Your life's wishes will come true! You can play a funsies game after you retire... swimming in your Scrooge McDuck style money vault. Hell, you could fly your opponent out and buy them a new army. Have at it! But you gotta win that tournament first and then you can be nice.
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






General Hobbs wrote:

For example
I have say, a stern guard unit with plasma etc on the flank of my army.

my opponent sets up an Ork unit 9 inches away.

Should I remind him I have auspex scan, or wait till he is done and then announce I am using it and shooting. In other words, should I give him a chance to not make a mistake?

I've often heard a player say, I wish you had told me about that, in a reproving tone of voice.

On the flip side, if you do inform your opponent about something, you end up negating parts of your army. ( I have an army build which I realized I can shoot at deepstrikes/infiltraters 3 times if the set up is correct, twice if not)


Thoughts?


Not in a tournament. I'll always tell my opponent when they fethed up and give them advice but anyone that does that in a tournament is just silly.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






no. You are obligated to tell your opponent if they are making an illegal move, even if making that illegal move would benefit you. You are not obligated to help your opponent beat you by giving them strategic advice.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






 Peregrine wrote:
no. You are obligated to tell your opponent if they are making an illegal move, even if making that illegal move would benefit you. You are not obligated to help your opponent beat you by giving them strategic advice.


No that's not what he was asking. If they make an illegal move you should call them out on it but if they make a mistake or forget a rule etc. then that's their fault. All is fair in love and war.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran



NE Ohio, USA

Nope.
In the very rare instances where I find myself in a tourney environment I will:
1) Tell you that everything in my army is WYSIWYG gear wise. And it will be.
2) Hand you a detailed copy of my army list.
3) Truthfully answer any questions you have about my models/stats/etc then or later.

Beyond that? Tactical errors are your own problem. Good luck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
no. You are obligated to tell your opponent if they are making an illegal move, even if making that illegal move would benefit you. You are not obligated to help your opponent beat you by giving them strategic advice.


No that's not what he was asking. If they make an illegal move you should call them out on it but if they make a mistake or forget a rule etc. then that's their fault. All is fair in love and war.


And since in the grim future there is only war....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/08 04:32:03


 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






ccs wrote:
Nope.
In the very rare instances where I find myself in a tourney environment I will:
1) Tell you that everything in my army is WYSIWYG gear wise. And it will be.
2) Hand you a detailed copy of my army list.
3) Truthfully answer any questions you have about my models/stats/etc then or later.

Beyond that? Tactical errors are your own problem. Good luck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
no. You are obligated to tell your opponent if they are making an illegal move, even if making that illegal move would benefit you. You are not obligated to help your opponent beat you by giving them strategic advice.


No that's not what he was asking. If they make an illegal move you should call them out on it but if they make a mistake or forget a rule etc. then that's their fault. All is fair in love and war.


And since in the grim future there is only war....


Indeedybob.
   
Made in us
Implaccable Grey Knight Paladin




San Diego, CA

At a tournament, no. In a friendly game, sure. And in all honesty, a lot depends on if I'm winning and how much I'm winning by

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






In short, no. The objective of a game is to win the game.

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Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, I tend to be more forgiving if I'm winning.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






The only thing I'll let go in a tournament is obvious sequencing mistakes that were just as obviously unintentional. If you move a model, then declare that you want to use "Machine Spirit Resurgent" on a Knight, I'm not going to call you out on it by saying, "oh that has to be done at the start of the turn, and you entered the movement phase by moving a model, so its no longer the start of your turn". If you shoot with one model, then try to use an order with a tank commander or infantry commander, I'm not going to say, "oh no, orders all happen at the start of the shooting phase!"... unless it's a situation where I suspect they're doing it to gain an advantage.

Like, if they shoot a unit, then declare a tank commander is using the re-roll 1's to shoot order to shoot, whatever I don't care. If they shoot a unit off the board, then try to use MOVE MOVE MOVE to move infantry through where that unit used to be, well then they're breaking sequencing to gain a deliberate advantage, and I'm not gonna let that one slide. Generally I try not to be a stickler for stuff like that, it just makes the game a lot less fun.

All that said, I will never volunteer information about what my guys can do, though I'll answer any questions truthfully of course.
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






The only reason you play in a tournament is to win, if you are not bothered about winning then you shouldn't play tournaments. I don't care that much about winning, which is why I don't play tournaments. If you play a tournament you should take no prisoners and do everything other than cheating to win, so no don't give your opponent an advantage because you want to be nice.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
no. You are obligated to tell your opponent if they are making an illegal move, even if making that illegal move would benefit you. You are not obligated to help your opponent beat you by giving them strategic advice.


No that's not what he was asking. If they make an illegal move you should call them out on it but if they make a mistake or forget a rule etc. then that's their fault. All is fair in love and war.


Why not wait till they finish doing it, and get the adventage of calling a judge and getting them a warrning. I mean if in sports I notice that my opponent has a broken seal on his wrestling shoes, and call it out before the fight, nothing will happen. If I do it post match or in the middle of it, I can use it to disqualify him in case I lose. Kind of a basic thing you learn before you first event, in any sport. the only time you do react in an instant, is if you see something that can cause a big injury, because either you can get disqualified if you break him or he can use it to stop the match because he has no protection, specially if your winning.


The only reason you play in a tournament is to win, if you are not bothered about winning then you shouldn't play tournaments.

Well the only other reason to go to events would be to make others lose. There is a ton of ways to play without joining orgenised play. If you join an orgenise way of doing sports or anything, you get the good that comes from it and the bad. Expecting people to act in professional sports or anything with a ranking is kind of a foolish. But the good thing is not everyone has to play tournaments, so in the end it does not matter.

   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






Karol wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
no. You are obligated to tell your opponent if they are making an illegal move, even if making that illegal move would benefit you. You are not obligated to help your opponent beat you by giving them strategic advice.


No that's not what he was asking. If they make an illegal move you should call them out on it but if they make a mistake or forget a rule etc. then that's their fault. All is fair in love and war.


Why not wait till they finish doing it, and get the adventage of calling a judge and getting them a warrning. I mean if in sports I notice that my opponent has a broken seal on his wrestling shoes, and call it out before the fight, nothing will happen. If I do it post match or in the middle of it, I can use it to disqualify him in case I lose. Kind of a basic thing you learn before you first event, in any sport. the only time you do react in an instant, is if you see something that can cause a big injury, because either you can get disqualified if you break him or he can use it to stop the match because he has no protection, specially if your winning.


The only reason you play in a tournament is to win, if you are not bothered about winning then you shouldn't play tournaments.

Well the only other reason to go to events would be to make others lose. There is a ton of ways to play without joining orgenised play. If you join an orgenise way of doing sports or anything, you get the good that comes from it and the bad. Expecting people to act in professional sports or anything with a ranking is kind of a foolish. But the good thing is not everyone has to play tournaments, so in the end it does not matter.



No mate he's misunderstood the question, no one is talking about illegal moves.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





I do either way generally depending on mood of the game. If opponent wants more serious cut throat game then no I won't mention. If he is like me interested more in casual fun game then I will point out biggest oopsies he might be making out of carelessness. Also doing forgotten things etc are granted without second thought.

General attitude I have is I rather lose than win because of silly mistakes or not remembering something on time pressure since tournaments play too big point levels for time allocated and GW keeps making 40k slower game.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




 Delvarus Centurion wrote:


No mate he's misunderstood the question, no one is talking about illegal moves.

Ah ok. Still at scored events it doesn't matter, if what he does is legal or not. At practic or a a bout with another school, I get it. better to call something up when you see it, then end up looking like a ahole that is try harding at a non event game. In w40k terms it would probably be something like a noob tournament or a store event. But if it is a big even, and my opponent is making an error, be it a legal one or because he is missing something, then it would be foolish to not use it to full adventage.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot








Thanks everyone for the comments!

Through the years I have tended to win Best Sportsmen awards, but only once or twice have come into a situation where an opponent got upset because he thought I should have warned him about my strategy.

I whole heartedly agree with letting people do things they have forgotten ( unless it is obviously done for advantage.)


.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase. 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Cutting stuff up and bunging it back together in new and interesting ways.






Under the couch

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
The only reason you play in a tournament is to win,...

Not actually true, for a very large number of people who play in tournaments.


For a lot of players, a tournament is just an easy way of getting in a few games on the same weekend. Winning is just a bonus.

   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
The only reason you play in a tournament is to win, if you are not bothered about winning then you shouldn't play tournaments. I don't care that much about winning, which is why I don't play tournaments. If you play a tournament you should take no prisoners and do everything other than cheating to win, so no don't give your opponent an advantage because you want to be nice.


Ah how nice of you to claim you know my motivations better than I do...Howabout stop making up lies?

I go there to have fun playing 3 games against opponents I don't get to play regularly otherwise against armies I don't get to play otherwise(funny that seeing we live in different cities). Win or lose is never a worry.

Next time don't make up silly claims.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/08 06:48:24


https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/09/12/tneva82-minas-tirith-vs-isengard/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I think you should let your opponent make his own tactical mistakes. You will probably do the same. Both of you are responsible for playing your own army, not your opponents.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/08 06:51:26


 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






 insaniak wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
The only reason you play in a tournament is to win,...

Not actually true, for a very large number of people who play in tournaments.


For a lot of players, a tournament is just an easy way of getting in a few games on the same weekend. Winning is just a bonus.


I have to disagree, people might have various reasons for playing in a tournament and that's fine but in a tournament you play to win regardless of what your intentions are. If you play just to have a game then that's fine you'll have a good game but that's not what a tournament is made for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
The only reason you play in a tournament is to win, if you are not bothered about winning then you shouldn't play tournaments. I don't care that much about winning, which is why I don't play tournaments. If you play a tournament you should take no prisoners and do everything other than cheating to win, so no don't give your opponent an advantage because you want to be nice.


Ah how nice of you to claim you know my motivations better than I do...Howabout stop making up lies?

I go there to have fun playing 3 games against opponents I don't get to play regularly otherwise against armies I don't get to play otherwise(funny that seeing we live in different cities). Win or lose is never a worry.

Next time don't make up silly claims.


What are you talking about... You aren't the OP, I'm not even talking about you,

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/08 07:05:24


 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





"The only reason you play in a tournament is to wi"

That's your claim. Which is provenly false. And pretty stupid claim too. That's totally ridiculously false statement that can be proven false in a microsecond.

Just because you only care about winning in tournaments doesn't mean everybody does. Next time think even microsecond before making such a silly claims.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/09/12/tneva82-minas-tirith-vs-isengard/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in it
Poxed Plague Monk





Sesto San Giovanni, Italy

You should, the game is too convoluted (and constant FAQ changes doesn't help) to assume an opponent know all the rules you may use or all the possible interaction in game.

This attitude costed me a win sometimes (specifically with IK were a small positioning difference may constrain 1/3 of your army), but winning is never been the goal of a game (it's doing the best you can, in a challenge of your choosing).

If really winning is the only things that matters... you should play against toddlers: you'll never lose a game, and you'll never learn anything.
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






tneva82 wrote:
"The only reason you play in a tournament is to wi"

That's your claim. Which is provenly false. And pretty stupid claim too. That's totally ridiculously false statement that can be proven false in a microsecond.

Just because you only care about winning in tournaments doesn't mean everybody does. Next time think even microsecond before making such a silly claims.


Derp...

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/05/08 07:39:46


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Presumably you meant "literally", and if so you used it incorrectly.

I find it hard to believe there's many people who play a game of 40k aiming to lose. However, "playing to win" doesn't mean "the only enjoyment I get from the game is winning". When I play 40k, I choose an army based on the backgroiund, on the models I have painted, and perhaps on what I've not used in a while; not simply on "these units are the best options if I want to win". Once I'm rolling dice, I try to win the battle, because that's the objective of the battlefield commander. however, if I don't win, who cares? winning is only an instant out of the two hours; an enjoyable game is more important than a won game. As the saying goes, the [i[objective[/i] may be to win, but the aim is to have fun - for both players. If I win at the cost of deliberately denying my fellow player any enjoyment, then that's not good (if they're just a bad loser and spoil it for themselves, that's not on me).

When I went to tournaments, like tneva says, I had no intention of winning the tournament; that was utterly irrelevant to my attending. I turned up to get three or four enjoyable games, nothing more.

Getting back to the OP, I'd inform my opponent if they did something that's against the rules. I'd probably point out when they forgot to use an optional ability. I probably wouldn't point out tactical choices, as that's annoying.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/08 07:46:35


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




General Hobbs wrote:

For example
I have say, a stern guard unit with plasma etc on the flank of my army.

my opponent sets up an Ork unit 9 inches away.

Should I remind him I have auspex scan, or wait till he is done and then announce I am using it and shooting. In other words, should I give him a chance to not make a mistake?

I've often heard a player say, I wish you had told me about that, in a reproving tone of voice.

On the flip side, if you do inform your opponent about something, you end up negating parts of your army. ( I have an army build which I realized I can shoot at deepstrikes/infiltraters 3 times if the set up is correct, twice if not)


Thoughts?


I think my answer to this is hugely situational. If I am playing against an apparent beginner and especially if they are a kid then I will tend to give them a polite warning for anything game-changing which implies that they either did not read or did not understand my list. While I am there to try to win the tournament I do not have any interest in seal-clubbing. Yes I have in the past been pipped to the post on total VP for behaving that way but I'd rather not be That Guy than be clubbing baby seals just to have some essentially worthless trophy gathering dust on my shelves. Life choices.

I have on one or two occasions mentioned stuff in top table games but really there is no need. The only example that comes to mind it was just after that Skyhammer bullgak formation came out and I put interceptor on literally everything that could take it and deployed inside a void shield. I mentioned to my opponent (with skyhammer and that equally gak Raven Guard assault-out-of-deepstrike formation) I had a lot of interceptor because I had a LOT of interceptor. He proceeded to deep strike and I killed about half his army with interceptor fire. He then rules bullshitted me later on with his deliberately confusingly painted army so there was no karma payback for trying to be a decent guy - so maybe I would not bother with a friendly warning a top table opponent again and definitely not *that* opponent.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Not everyone going to a tournament is going with the intention of winning the whole thing but I would hope everyone there is trying their best to win every game they play.

I agree with the general consensus here. You're not obligated to tell your opponent they're making a tactical error. For all you know it isn't a tactical error at all. Maybe they're trying to bait out your stratagem with a sacrificial unit, maybe they think the risk is worth it. You're not obligated to inform them of every last trick, stratagem, combo or special rule in your army, mainly because the game's far too complicated for that. It's on them to ask about the abilities of your army if they're unsure and you should answer those questions truthfully. Illegal moves should be called out at the time, regardless of who benefits. In most tournaments I have been to or heard about, taking Karol's approach of waiting until an illegal move is made then calling a TO is just as likely to result in the TO keeping an eye on you as it is the player who made the illegal move.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I go through my army (DE) in great detail before the game, because although I like winning I don't like creating feel bad moments. At every tournament I go to there's always one guy who doesn't know what Agents of Vect does, which is surprising but is just because he doesn't have a DE player in his local meta, so I tell them about Vect, Vexator Mask, Black Cornucopians and the other tricks I have. Opponents rarely go into the same detail with me, but I usually know their rules so its fine.

But once the dice start rolling, it's all fair.
   
 
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