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So generally am i right that in a matched game or in most general cases, there is no such thing as just a CSM or SM Armys, they are always in either a legion or chapter or something similar right?



If so how come you can buy specific chapters from GW but not specific CSM legions? and if you can why is it not listed the same as Space marine chapters?

Like emporers children / black legion / iron warriors / etc etc



Thanks.

you can but they're seperate armies with their own rules. the armies in question are, death guard and 1thousand sons. this is also the case with space marines, the ones you can buy seperately have their own codex.

Oh ok, but i was thinking more about the legions, like why can you buy dark angels, but not emperors children specifically?

Thanks man, sorry if im not understanding correctly ( tiny tiny tiny tiny brain capacity )

From what I understand about it, no models no rules. And to have a codex, a legion would have to have some characters, some units and some vehicles. Can't make an army codex with just one unit and one hero.

It's heading in that direction.

But generally it's for the same reason you can't buy a White Scars codex or a Mentor Legion codex, etc. The fluff massively outweighs the miniature production capacity. GW is heading towards an army for each of the major Chaos gods. For instances, Thousand Sons were never an army before - they were a unit entry and a couple of characters. You could easily theme your CSM style army to be a Thousand Sons army, but it wasn't a proper army. Same thing with Death Guard. Both of these books started out as a handful of miniatures back in the late 1980's.

Wherever GW believes there is a marketing logic to producing X miniatures you're likely to see it become an army. Most armies start out as a couple of miniatures - normally available as an ally to a larger faction. Grey Knights, Harlequins etc. All of these little spin-off armies were just a couple of units in previous editions of the game. If GW thinks there is enough market available to produce miniatures and make them into army, it happens.

If GW thought they could sell a full book and line of kits for the Brazen Claws space marine chapter, or the Red Corsairs Chaos renegade legion, etc....then they would. GW has identified that "new armies" sell far better than replacing existing kits. So you're going to see a lot fewer "revised" kits and far more new ones (thus almost guaranteeing sales). If they think they can stretch a couple of units into army and sell a codex, they'll do so.

So theres no such thing as Space marines Vs Chaos space marines
Instead it has to be a space marine chapter or what ever, and the same with CSM?


Thanks

You can make a detachment where the only keyword in common is "Adeptus Astartes" (a "Space Marine" detachment, containing Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, whatever).

However: There are free buffs you get when everyone in the detachment has the same sub-faction keyword; if your detachment is all Deathwatch you get Mission Tactics, if they're all Blood Angels you get the Red Thirst, etc.

In practice because you get free stuff for restricting yourself to one sub-faction and because aura buffs tend to be restricted to the same sub-faction there's no reason to build an army out of an arbitrary mixture of Space Marines rather than sticking to one sub-faction. It's allowed but it's also worse.

Oh ok, so that's more of a open play sort of thing you would do. But generally and especially for matched play etc etc you restrict your self to the one faction etc?

Edit - Never mind i get it now, thanks so much Dakka participants.

generally when someone says "space marines" in a rules context they're refering to codex space marines, IE Ultramarines, White Scars Imperial Fists Ironhands Raven gaurd, salamanders and sucessors.

space wolves, blood angels, and dark angels and their sucessors utlize their own codex and are useally refered to as themselves (sometimes people to diffrentiate them from the vanilla codex will refer to them as the "snow flake chapters")

BrianDavion wrote:
generally when someone says "space marines" in a rules context they're refering to codex space marines, IE Ultramarines, White Scars Imperial Fists Ironhands Raven gaurd, salamanders and sucessors.

space wolves, blood angels, and dark angels and their sucessors utlize their own codex and are useally refered to as themselves (sometimes people to diffrentiate them from the vanilla codex will refer to them as the "snow flake chapters")

Cheers!

 Stormatious wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
generally when someone says "space marines" in a rules context they're refering to codex space marines, IE Ultramarines, White Scars Imperial Fists Ironhands Raven gaurd, salamanders and sucessors.

space wolves, blood angels, and dark angels and their sucessors utlize their own codex and are useally refered to as themselves (sometimes people to diffrentiate them from the vanilla codex will refer to them as the "snow flake chapters")

Cheers!

of course context is king, when someone for example says "space marines have X implants" obviously they're talking ALL space marines.