Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I've a reasonable grasp of the Ork fluff, where the orks release spores when they die and the spores grow into either Snotlings, Grots or Yoofs (which are young ork boys, and they grow from there).

Can someone give me some references for how Squigs and squiggoths fit into this? Are they another "option" for a spore to grow into? also, do squigs grow into squiggoths? when do they grow the extra legs?

I ws writing some fluff to explain my big meks absence from the game, and realised I didn't know how squiggoths get made!

My fluff is that he was dumped on an ork planet, started beating the tribes into line, but then the nids attacked. he realised his dreads and kans were running out of juice, and there was none to loot from the nids, so he had his runtherds start growing some squiggoths, with their growth accelerated by the dok and some 'sperimental weirdboy stuff. The squiggoths were stompier than the dreads, and could survive by eating the nids. He then repurposed his vehicles to build a krooza to get them off the planet before they were overrun. by the time he escaped, there was only one squiggoth left, and it was colossal. The only rason he unplugged the weirdboy to stop it growing was that he was running out of scrap to extend the hold of his krooza to fit it in!

This is to tie into my project for building some squiggoths for my army, and to ultimately produce a walking-workshop colossal squiggoth as a centrepiece of my army - once I've learnt how to sculpt!

 some bloke wrote:
Are they another "option" for a spore to grow into?

Basically yes - you'll get yoofs, grots & squgs from spores. Some squigs/squiggoths will just grow, whereas others will need special conditions - hence Runtherds and Snakebites.

Yes, squigs are another product of the orkoid spores. As for squiggoths, they are just overgrown squigs, just like Nobs and Warbosses are overgrown Boyz. It’s heavily implied by the IA8 and Vigilus lore that squiggoths aren’t a guaranteed product of the spores like grots or yoofs, but that they require tending from the tribe’s grots and runtherds to achieve their size and power. This squig handling is probably something that Snakebites are good at, but I can’t fund a source for that last bit specifically.

It's worth remembering that 'squig' is (or at least, used to be) short for 'squiggly beast'. So basically anything that moved in an ork ecosystem that wasn't a snot/grot/ork was, by default, a squig. There are gilled hair squigs, crunchy nut squigs, face-eater squigs, buzzer squigs, etc.

It is entirely possible that the entire orkish ecosystem is reproducible through their spores, from edible fungi, to animals, to the greenskins themselves. They may be able to entirely populate a lifeless but not inhospitable planet themselves.

On the other hand, orks are notoriously fast and loose with nomenclature, so it's not clear that if they grow up on a planet with native, humpbacked animals, they wouldn't just call them humpbacked squigs. So it does certainly appear that squiggoths are orkoid (based on their morphology), but not based on the name.

To further illustrate weird ork naming conventions, despite naming all sorts of beasties 'squigs', including things that have wings, 2 and 4 legs, and no legs, Orks have a name for snakes. It's never been clear to me if Snakebite 'snakes' are limbless, venomous squigs, actual Terran snakes, or (most probably) just any bitey, venomous legless squiggly thingamabob.

Da Butcha wrote:
To further illustrate weird ork naming conventions, despite naming all sorts of beasties 'squigs', including things that have wings, 2 and 4 legs, and no legs, Orks have a name for snakes. It's never been clear to me if Snakebite 'snakes' are limbless, venomous squigs, actual Terran snakes, or (most probably) just any bitey, venomous legless squiggly thingamabob.

Or if Snakebite is a human mis-translation of their actual name...

beast_gts wrote:

Da Butcha wrote:
To further illustrate weird ork naming conventions, despite naming all sorts of beasties 'squigs', including things that have wings, 2 and 4 legs, and no legs, Orks have a name for snakes. It's never been clear to me if Snakebite 'snakes' are limbless, venomous squigs, actual Terran snakes, or (most probably) just any bitey, venomous legless squiggly thingamabob.

Or if Snakebite is a human mis-translation of their actual name...

The popular ork tribe, the bitey, venomous legless squiggly thingamabob-bites!

Blood Axes always got me. Visually they are more Humie than other Ork clans. Which would mean its the newest clan to form, because prior to humans they couldn't have picked up the camouflage and terran military style.

The Blood Axes mindset might have existed, but had no clan formed yet.

Or Blood Axes did exist, but they were using other Xenos tactics. Such as Blood Axes who stole the military trappings of Eldar.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
Blood Axes always got me. Visually they are more Humie than other Ork clans. Which would mean its the newest clan to form, because prior to humans they couldn't have picked up the camouflage and terran military style.

The Blood Axes mindset might have existed, but had no clan formed yet.

Or Blood Axes did exist, but they were using other Xenos tactics. Such as Blood Axes who stole the military trappings of Eldar.

It's been suggested that the Ork clans as we know them didn't evolve until the War of the Beast.

Orks have their own complete ecosystem based on their spores.
They are supposedly an engineered race (See "Brain Boyz") so various stressors or conditions activate latent memories or growth depending on the conditions.
Squigs are the most basic form of forager (like pigs as the basic farm animal).
See here: https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Squigs
Yes, some degree of animal husbandry is needed to "breed" squigs that become Squiggoths.

Funny, I did not know earlier that they were an off-shoot creation by the Tyranids using Ork DNA as a precursor to Ripper Swarms.
Makes sense since they seem to perform a similar function: to digest local biomass for more advanced organism use.

 Talizvar wrote:
Funny, I did not know earlier that they were an off-shoot creation by the Tyranids using Ork DNA as a precursor to Ripper Swarms.
Makes sense since they seem to perform a similar function: to digest local biomass for more advanced organism use.

Yeah - back when 'Nids also had Zoats.

beast_gts wrote:
It's been suggested that the Ork clans as we know them didn't evolve until the War of the Beast.

There was a section about The Goffs using Luna Wolves black/white armor as a symbol of being tough. But we don't get enough pre-Imperium Ork stories to know when the clans formed.

The Warlord of Ullanor that the Emperor and Horus killed didn't have much detail on him.

Yeah. It is possible to make giant versions and such of thr squigoth and such but that requires careful husbandry, care and propper working of the spores and animals to produce them.

And a linky link.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Squiggoth

Rough care given Orks but snake bite clans especially are Ment to be good with the more natural aspects of orkoid biology. They are a creature much more like a gargant to produce and requires a skilled ork, with time, materals and so to produce one.

Its a distinct process from grots and Boyz whom by default will grow woth battle, ans just grow selves. These require a more active role to create the most Leathal forms.

On Clans.....they kind of are and aren't a proper 'thing' in Orky Kultur.

One isn't necessarily created a Goff, Snakebite etc. So the spores from any given Ork could develop into an Ork of any given Clan. Because the Clans are more likeminded Orks associating with each other, rather than say, a nationalistic bias toward a specific behaviour.

But these do appear to be subject to environmental triggers.

Where only a few spores hatch (few being relative of course) on a new world, you're pretty much guaranteed Feral Orks. It's not until a given population reaches specific densities that you start to get Oddboyz. Runtherdz of course emerge first - Orks hardwired for Squig and Grot wrangling.

After that, Pigdoks and regular Doks, to look after The Boyz. Mekboyz are more or less the last caste to emerge, needing specific conditions.

It's also worth noting that, whilst not canon, Xenology (Why did I lend my copy out? WHY!) offers the hypothesis that perhaps Ghaz himself is a whole new caste of Oddboy. A specialist Leader Caste which only manifests when there's a huge number of Orks and Wars.

Whether such individuals remain singular throughout their existence, only being replaced should they perish? Well, who knows. It could simply be that the environmental factors that trigger a Ghaz release any nominal growth restraint on Warbosses - ensuring that no matter how many Boyz there are, there'll be a clear pecking order of who's 'ardest right up to the very top.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On Clans.....they kind of are and aren't a proper 'thing' in Orky Kultur.

One isn't necessarily created a Goff, Snakebite etc. So the spores from any given Ork could develop into an Ork of any given Clan. Because the Clans are more likeminded Orks associating with each other, rather than say, a nationalistic bias toward a specific behaviour.

But these do appear to be subject to environmental triggers.

Where only a few spores hatch (few being relative of course) on a new world, you're pretty much guaranteed Feral Orks. It's not until a given population reaches specific densities that you start to get Oddboyz. Runtherdz of course emerge first - Orks hardwired for Squig and Grot wrangling.

After that, Pigdoks and regular Doks, to look after The Boyz. Mekboyz are more or less the last caste to emerge, needing specific conditions.

It's also worth noting that, whilst not canon, Xenology (Why did I lend my copy out? WHY!) offers the hypothesis that perhaps Ghaz himself is a whole new caste of Oddboy. A specialist Leader Caste which only manifests when there's a huge number of Orks and Wars.

Whether such individuals remain singular throughout their existence, only being replaced should they perish? Well, who knows. It could simply be that the environmental factors that trigger a Ghaz release any nominal growth restraint on Warbosses - ensuring that no matter how many Boyz there are, there'll be a clear pecking order of who's 'ardest right up to the very top.

Not worst theory.

During the wars against beast the Orks rallied so many they had evolved primorks, and also crude ambassadors least once. Attack moons, it was a crazy time.

Telling though the most adnaced Orks. Some could speak both ork and fluent gothic etc. There whole abilities leveled up along with combat prowess.

Ork tech also grows with the scale, and d spite there pure chaos so does where orgonisation systems.