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Made in ca
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun






Next week I am going into a game with the new Vanguard Primaris models that were recently released and was wondering what peoples thoughts on them were. I have used the Suppressors and Eliminators in a single game so far and found them underwhelming though it could be that I was using them incorrectly.
   
Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit




San Jose, CA

If you want competitive I cant help you, but for everything short of tourney minmax they work well to supplement other Primaris units.

The infiltrators are best used as a disruption type unit. deploy them last(not DS) and use the 12" bubble to best effect. then bring in Suppressors & elims on T2 to support Infils in attacking whatever you send them after.
   
Made in de
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought






Germany

In short, to expensive for what they do.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran



NE Ohio, USA

I like the look of the infiltrator models.
Based on that alone I'll eventually get around to picking up a squad of them just because.

Beyond that I haven't really paid them any attention as they don't fit in any of the armies I'm currently playing (AdMech, 100% SM dreadnaughts, & SW - that use only 2e era models).
   
Made in ca
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun






Racerguy180 wrote:
If you want competitive I cant help you, but for everything short of tourney minmax they work well to supplement other Primaris units.

The infiltrators are best used as a disruption type unit. deploy them last(not DS) and use the 12" bubble to best effect. then bring in Suppressors & elims on T2 to support Infils in attacking whatever you send them after.

I am pretty sure that the Infiltrators and Eliminators can't deep strike. They can do the thing were they can deploy up to 9 inchs from the enemy deployment zone.
   
Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit




San Jose, CA

 KingGarland wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
If you want competitive I cant help you, but for everything short of tourney minmax they work well to supplement other Primaris units.

The infiltrators are best used as a disruption type unit. deploy them last(not DS) and use the 12" bubble to best effect. then bring in Suppressors & elims on T2 to support Infils in attacking whatever you send them after.

I am pretty sure that the Infiltrators and Eliminators can't deep strike. They can do the thing were they can deploy up to 9 inchs from the enemy deployment zone.

didnt say DS, they can still come in on T2 tho.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I just use infiltrators as intercessors for my crimson fists at the moment as I love the models, not actually used any of the rules yet as I run my marines as Deathwatch
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler







I think the Infiltrators should be the same cost as Intercessors to be worth fielding. I think their weapons are basically even with and their special abilities are so situational as to not be worth extra points to me. Conversely, if I could choose to take Infiltrators at the same price as Intercessors without a lot of their special abilities I would. The Helix Adept seems entirely too expensive to Necron the squad he is embedded with. Doubly so given the failure chance and lost of Shooting with said failure.

I think the Eliminators are a good price, but have limited utility in standard matched play games. As a side and it could be my personal opinion, but I also think they would most usable if they could be taken individually or in teams of two.

The Suppressors seem pretty good. A little tough to use sometimes, but good especially as Fast Attack and as cheap as they are. I would have expected them to be the price of Infiltrators.

The Captain in Phobos Armor seems like a Primaris Captain HQ choice. Maybe a little too expensive given their are better choices. I could see running him for fluff reasons and him not holding back the army though.

The Librarian in Phobos Armor seems pretty good if your are running a Phobos heavy army. Probably the best HQ choice of the three offered in the box for space marines.

The Lieutenant in Phobos Armor, like the Captain, doesn't seem like anything particularly special and also seems a little overly expensive.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Racerguy180 wrote:
 KingGarland wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
If you want competitive I cant help you, but for everything short of tourney minmax they work well to supplement other Primaris units.

The infiltrators are best used as a disruption type unit. deploy them last(not DS) and use the 12" bubble to best effect. then bring in Suppressors & elims on T2 to support Infils in attacking whatever you send them after.

I am pretty sure that the Infiltrators and Eliminators can't deep strike. They can do the thing were they can deploy up to 9 inchs from the enemy deployment zone.

didnt say DS, they can still come in on T2 tho.


How are you getting them in T2? They are set up like scouts during deployment.

The captain and Lt suffer from having no worthwhile melee weapon (seriously GW, WTF?), but the Lt with Target Priority WT is great with Hellblasters or plasma inceptors. I can't really see a use for the Captain.
Infiltrators are too expensive, eliminators don't have enough shots, and the suppressors suffer from a crisis of identity.

While I like the models, GW didn't do Space Marine players any favours with this release.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Upstate, New York

They seem a bit overpriced for what you get, but seem to be able to do their roles pretty good. So effective, not efficient.

Options on the HQs kinda blow. Would it hurt to give them at least a basic power sword?

The captain has a role of backfield camp support. He sits back in cover (bonus save) plinking with his rifle (better then nothing) and keeping things from DSing close to his charges (12” denial). But he’s there for the re-rolls to hit primarily.

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Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit




San Jose, CA

 bullyboy wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
 KingGarland wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
If you want competitive I cant help you, but for everything short of tourney minmax they work well to supplement other Primaris units.

The infiltrators are best used as a disruption type unit. deploy them last(not DS) and use the 12" bubble to best effect. then bring in Suppressors & elims on T2 to support Infils in attacking whatever you send them after.

I am pretty sure that the Infiltrators and Eliminators can't deep strike. They can do the thing were they can deploy up to 9 inchs from the enemy deployment zone.

didnt say DS, they can still come in on T2 tho.


How are you getting them in T2? They are set up like scouts during deployment.

The captain and Lt suffer from having no worthwhile melee weapon (seriously GW, WTF?), but the Lt with Target Priority WT is great with Hellblasters or plasma inceptors. I can't really see a use for the Captain.
Infiltrators are too expensive, eliminators don't have enough shots, and the suppressors suffer from a crisis of identity.

While I like the models, GW didn't do Space Marine players any favours with this release.


so stuff cannot be set up as reserves anymore?
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule





Racerguy180 wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
 KingGarland wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
If you want competitive I cant help you, but for everything short of tourney minmax they work well to supplement other Primaris units.

The infiltrators are best used as a disruption type unit. deploy them last(not DS) and use the 12" bubble to best effect. then bring in Suppressors & elims on T2 to support Infils in attacking whatever you send them after.

I am pretty sure that the Infiltrators and Eliminators can't deep strike. They can do the thing were they can deploy up to 9 inchs from the enemy deployment zone.

didnt say DS, they can still come in on T2 tho.


How are you getting them in T2? They are set up like scouts during deployment.

The captain and Lt suffer from having no worthwhile melee weapon (seriously GW, WTF?), but the Lt with Target Priority WT is great with Hellblasters or plasma inceptors. I can't really see a use for the Captain.
Infiltrators are too expensive, eliminators don't have enough shots, and the suppressors suffer from a crisis of identity.

While I like the models, GW didn't do Space Marine players any favours with this release.


so stuff cannot be set up as reserves anymore?


No, that's not a thing in 8e. Unless the unit has an ability like that on their datasheet.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





They're overall not particularly great. However, the HQ options are pretty decent:

The Vanguard Libby can learn Null Zone via a relic, which is a neat trick you can puill off.

The Vanguard Captain can use the Warlord trait for +1 to hit, which is really strong on giant squads of Hellblasters.

I haven't had a whole lot of success with Eliminators, I'd just take a Vindicare via Operative Requisition Sanctioned. I haven't been impressed by suppressors, but there's potential there for pairing them with Infiltrators to get T1 charges against things like the aforementiioned giant squads of Hellblasters.

I'd definitely use Infiltrators as forward skirmishers, relying on their higher resilience per point than scouts to engage the enemy in close quarters to be disruptive.


As far as models go, I love them, though

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/08 22:38:17


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Made in de
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought






Germany

Suppressors are weird. They can deepstrike, but dont really want to, because they get -1 to hit, when they do. And they dont need to, because they have 48" range. Same with moving, they can move 10" and have FLY, but dont really want to, because of the -1 to hit, when they do. And they dont really need to, because of the 48" range. I dont understand this unit
   
Made in ch
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





 p5freak wrote:
Suppressors are weird. They can deepstrike, but dont really want to, because they get -1 to hit, when they do. And they dont need to, because they have 48" range. Same with moving, they can move 10" and have FLY, but dont really want to, because of the -1 to hit, when they do. And they dont really need to, because of the 48" range. I dont understand this unit


They profit quite alot in a city fights scenario from flight.

Probably as a fast relocating unit of Havocs sans the ignore -1 to hit penalty but with fly and 10" m range.

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_______________________________

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Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




I like the look and feel, but they are overpriced for what they do.
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






Does anyone else thing the Vanguard models are out of proportion to the other Primaris?

“You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common, They don’t alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views.” -- The Doctor 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule





 Crimson Devil wrote:
Does anyone else thing the Vanguard models are out of proportion to the other Primaris?


No, they look fine scale wise.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Crimson Devil wrote:
Does anyone else thing the Vanguard models are out of proportion to the other Primaris?

The kneeling snipers are out of scale
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I find the Infiltrators work better than people would expect.

I play all primaris (cause I can see where GW is going) and so I find the Suppressors and Eliminators very good additions also.

But the real winner has to be the Librarian.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

Works great as Raven Guard when paired with Shrike and some Vanguard Veterans.

Suppressors lock down units from firing Overwatch, Shrikewing takes everything that can be meleed down.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Crimson Devil wrote:
Does anyone else thing the Vanguard models are out of proportion to the other Primaris?


The kneeling Eliminators are definitely out of scale with other primaris. They must have got the sizing wrong on them at some point when the molds were being created. Put one next to the Eliminator sergeant or a regular intercessor to see what i mean. If they were to stand up straight its pretty obvious they would be significantly taller.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/10 14:29:26


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 bullyboy wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
 KingGarland wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
If you want competitive I cant help you, but for everything short of tourney minmax they work well to supplement other Primaris units.

The infiltrators are best used as a disruption type unit. deploy them last(not DS) and use the 12" bubble to best effect. then bring in Suppressors & elims on T2 to support Infils in attacking whatever you send them after.

I am pretty sure that the Infiltrators and Eliminators can't deep strike. They can do the thing were they can deploy up to 9 inchs from the enemy deployment zone.

didnt say DS, they can still come in on T2 tho.


How are you getting them in T2? They are set up like scouts during deployment.

The captain and Lt suffer from having no worthwhile melee weapon (seriously GW, WTF?), but the Lt with Target Priority WT is great with Hellblasters or plasma inceptors. I can't really see a use for the Captain.
Infiltrators are too expensive, eliminators don't have enough shots, and the suppressors suffer from a crisis of identity.

While I like the models, GW didn't do Space Marine players any favours with this release.


Target Priority can go on any warlord with the Phobos keyword, so it needs to be considered independent of the character it's on. Personally I think the Captain is less over-priced than the Lieutenant (he's not paying for DS and the meaningless Combat Knife) and he's harder to kill, although it is putting all the accuracy buff eggs into one basket.

I don't see why anyone woulf diss the Suppressors. Marines have needed Autocannons for a while, getting them with AP 2 (which is very on-meta) on a platform that can leave melee and shoot without penalty (beyond the normal -1 for move-and-shoot) and is fast enough to evade melee units is really good. They might just be the best thing Marines got in the whole box.

(Oh, and they're Spd 12", not 10". Donno if anyone else pointed that out yet.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
[Edit]
Don't mind me, for some stupid reason I thought Suppressors inflicted a -1 to hit on the target unit instead of "may not overwatch".

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/06/10 17:31:49


 
   
Made in us
Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter




Autocannons have a 48" range, meaning the Suppressors will often be outside of 12", giving a -1 to hit them. Also, if the suppressors eliminate a model from a unit, that unit cannot fire Overwatch.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Downside to putting Target Priority on your Captain is that he can't shoot to use the trait, which is not great since his gun is reasonable.
   
Made in de
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought






Germany

The Newman wrote:

I don't see why anyone woulf diss the Suppressors. Marines have needed Autocannons for a while, getting them with AP 2 (which is very on-meta) on a platform that can leave melee and shoot without penalty (beyond the normal -1 for move-and-shoot) and is fast enough to evade melee units is really good. They might just be the best thing Marines got in the whole box.


Just dont play them as ultramarines, because you get -2 to hit when you leave CC. Its -1 for shooting and moving a heavy weapon, and -1 for ultramarines chapter tactic. Note that other SM chapters dont get that -1 to hit when they fall back from CC. For some weird reason ultramarines like to be punished by their own chapter tactic.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 p5freak wrote:
The Newman wrote:

I don't see why anyone woulf diss the Suppressors. Marines have needed Autocannons for a while, getting them with AP 2 (which is very on-meta) on a platform that can leave melee and shoot without penalty (beyond the normal -1 for move-and-shoot) and is fast enough to evade melee units is really good. They might just be the best thing Marines got in the whole box.


Just dont play them as ultramarines, because you get -2 to hit when you leave CC. Its -1 for shooting and moving a heavy weapon, and -1 for ultramarines chapter tactic. Note that other SM chapters dont get that -1 to hit when they fall back from CC. For some weird reason ultramarines like to be punished by their own chapter tactic.


To be fair I think most people wouldn't play it that way as a matter of being friendly. It's rather silly that someone would insist that your chapter tactic makes your flying units worse.

 
   
Made in de
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought






Germany

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
The Newman wrote:

I don't see why anyone woulf diss the Suppressors. Marines have needed Autocannons for a while, getting them with AP 2 (which is very on-meta) on a platform that can leave melee and shoot without penalty (beyond the normal -1 for move-and-shoot) and is fast enough to evade melee units is really good. They might just be the best thing Marines got in the whole box.


Just dont play them as ultramarines, because you get -2 to hit when you leave CC. Its -1 for shooting and moving a heavy weapon, and -1 for ultramarines chapter tactic. Note that other SM chapters dont get that -1 to hit when they fall back from CC. For some weird reason ultramarines like to be punished by their own chapter tactic.


To be fair I think most people wouldn't play it that way as a matter of being friendly. It's rather silly that someone would insist that your chapter tactic makes your flying units worse.


Thats what the rules says. I agree that its silly, but it hasnt been changed by GW since 8th edition started, so i guess it must be intended.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/10 20:47:51


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 p5freak wrote:
 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
The Newman wrote:

I don't see why anyone woulf diss the Suppressors. Marines have needed Autocannons for a while, getting them with AP 2 (which is very on-meta) on a platform that can leave melee and shoot without penalty (beyond the normal -1 for move-and-shoot) and is fast enough to evade melee units is really good. They might just be the best thing Marines got in the whole box.


Just dont play them as ultramarines, because you get -2 to hit when you leave CC. Its -1 for shooting and moving a heavy weapon, and -1 for ultramarines chapter tactic. Note that other SM chapters dont get that -1 to hit when they fall back from CC. For some weird reason ultramarines like to be punished by their own chapter tactic.


To be fair I think most people wouldn't play it that way as a matter of being friendly. It's rather silly that someone would insist that your chapter tactic makes your flying units worse.


Thats what the rules says. I agree that its silly, but it hasnt been changed by GW since 8th edition started, so i guess it must be intended.


They've also never fixed assault weapons so I guess it must be intended.

 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Its an absurd result and therefore unenforceable in my book.
   
 
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