Ishagu wrote:The Knight Castellan only rose to dominance because of strats, relics and Warlord traits. It has sunk again now that Rotate Ion Shields can't elevate the invul to a 3++
Are you for real?
You actually don't know anything about the game.
You're doing the same thing you're accusing the others of. You can't take either in a vaccuum. Strats cost
CP, and the strat does you no good if you can't afford the points to get the model and the
CP. You also can't claim some hypothetical future scenario will make Unit A good in the future so you should buy the less robust kit now, just in case. If the unit will be good at some future junction when it has wargear options in the full model kit, a strat, and a new codex the time to buy it is when the full model kit comes out - especially as that alternate wargear could be the choice that makes it good.
I happen to like the Infiltrators as they are now. I don't think they're overpriced, or at least prohibitively so, as they stand now. I have hope for the Eliminators. They're not bad on a model per model basis, but the combination of Heavy Support and limit 3 make them less appealing now. I'll get them now as long as I'm getting the box for the Infiltrators anyway. Suppressors are abysmal. Almost nothing about them is better designed than the Interceptors. The LT isn't bad, as the only Primaris LT that can deep strike for armies that want to go full, or as close to full Primaris as possible. The Captain is unimpressive but not hold your nose bad. The Librarian is good if you have a Full or Nearly Full Phobos force- or you can use the Phobos only powers on a 6+ or on other marines on an 8+, or if he'll be able to default to Librarian powers instead of Concealment Discipline.
I do think they're still being beta tested, and will be improved. I believe we'll see some changes. Teleportation for Gravis armor - Inner Circle for at least some of Gravis Armor'ed Primaris as Aggressors and potentially Interceptors plus characters get inducted into the Deathwing for game and fluff balance. Gravis is the corollary for Terminator Armor, and Aggressors, the new Terminators. Green Wing Primaris - will still be Green Wing and not Inner Circle. Primaris Death Company is probably in the pipeline - but they've got to figure out what they're going to do for Jump
CCW Infantry in the Primaris line first - they're not going to make shooty
DC, nor will they make two
DC squads in one army, and the players are unlikely to tolerate footslogging
DC. Now that Calgar has "crossed the Primaris Rubicon" we should see more Marine special characters get Primaris'ified and we could see some stay Marines while being "killed" in the fluff undergoing the procedure while a new model with an either-or requirement being added i.e. only one Chapter Master, Captain of the <X> Company keyword per faction/Chapter and/or list depending on what they want to do with Soup. So Lysander might be Captain of the <First Company, Imperial Fists> and Captain Pollux the replacement kitted out like a super Aggressor because Primaris + no
TH/
SS (So far) for Primaris would also be Captain of the <First Company, Imperial Fists> thus you can only have one Captain of the <First Company, Imperial Fists> I suspect Shrike and Lysander also successfully cross the Rubicon as
GW is calling it, and will each get to prototype/model the Primaris
CC options to replace their
LCs and
TH/
SS - i.e. the infantry ginsu
LC replacement, and the Vehicle/Monster killer replacement for
TH/
SS.
Kantor could go either way, Between Calgar basically having had two bolt storm guantlets for a while now, and Kantor copying that on one hand he doesn't really stand out on the table top as unique. Khan is a candidate for replacement. No Primaris Bikes, and they didn't even give him his bike in the current codex - They're going to have to figure out something to do with bikes sooner or later - Ravenwing and Scars players are already tapping their foot waiting impatiently for that. He'Stan is a candidate to stick around based on wargear, and go either way based on fluff. The guy on the hunt for Vulkan is going to have SOMETHING happen to him when he finds Vulkan - be it get killed, get Primaris-ified, or interned in a Dread.
To get back on track, there are 6 Vanguard units in the Box, 1 is outstanding(Infiltrators), 2 are decent(LT and Librarian), 2 are Meh(Captain and Eliminators), and 1 is poor(Supressors). More options, and a new codex could raise the Meh to Good. That new codex should also fill the holes we're seeing on the Primaris front for Bikes, and Jump
CCW (Though unlikely to be direct replacements as similar as Intercessors and Tacs) so be careful focusing on the Phobos. Most of my lists start with a 10 man Intercessor, a 10 man Infiltrator, and a 10 man Sniper/cloak scout squad I don't see that changing until/unless Eliminators start pushing Scouts out performance wise.