Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How do?

So as well an Anime, I’ve also never really developed a taste for Westerns.

I can’t really explain why. Whilst he’s not Rootin’ Tootin’, Father Grotsnik used to love his Cowboy flicks at the old ABC (a now defunct cinema chain). And that meant when the reruns of Bonanza, High Chapparal and Gunsmoke were on, I’d watch them.

And this was at an age when if the telly was on, I’d be goggle Eyed regardless. In short, Westerns are to Dad as SciFi is to me.

Yet I have an inherent, and utterly inexplicable distaste for the genre. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not here to knock the genre, or look down on those that enjoy it.

Rather, I’m here to challenge my own, baseless, distaste for it.

Perhaps it was watching seemingly infinitely exchangeable episodes of Little House, whilst waiting for say, the A-Team to come on the box. The actual reasons don’t matter.

I just want recommendations (ideally those on Netflix or Prime) for objectively Good Westerns. Why they’re considered Good (note the capitals) or why you enjoy them isn’t especially important. I trust you, fellow Dakkanauts, to not be Richards and make genuine, heartfelt recommendations.

I can’t promise I’ll watch them all, because I am aware it’s a very wide oeuvre. But I want your recommendations all the same. I’d rather experiment and confirm ‘it’s just not for me’, than continue being largely ignorant.

And no. I’ve never properly sat my buns down and watched The Dollars Trilogy. That’s how deep my unearned prejudice runs.

Right. I await your tender ministrations!

Unforgiven
The Searchers
Lonesome Dove
Chissolm
The Oxbow Incident
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
True Grit - original version
True Grit - new version
Tombstone
The Man Who Shot liberty Valence
EDIT: High Noon
Outlaw Josey Wales
Good bad and the Ugly
Fort Apache
and of course...Blazing Saddles!

Tombstone.....is that the Val Kilmer version?

I have extremely sporadic knowledge, so need as much direction as possible!

Yes. Ok movie. I just love the Doc Holliday parts.

If I have to really limit it:
Searchers, True Grit (new version), Unforgiven, Blazing Saddles. Watch Blazing Saddles last.

Dollers trilogy is like the Western cistine Chapel.

You really need to watch that one.

There a lot of imitators to the style but that's the master peice. Pre that movie it dwelled more into black hats vs white hats. John Wayne stuff. That was the about the time things began to become more grey.

So, what’s the best approach?

When (note the term!) I watch Tombstone, will it ruin a far earlier John Wayne Classic, because it actually had a budget worth a damn?

Or indeed the Dollars Trilogy? Does that set a Star Wars style genre high bar that I might as well disregard earlier ones?

I’m really, genuinely, starting on the bottom rung here. I’d rather build my knowledge base from the lowest rung.

The new Magnificent 7 is superb, a great cast (Denzel Washington, Chris Pratt, Ethan Hawke) and it's just so much fun. There's very little to it, but there really doesn't need to be.

On the other end of the scale, the miniseries Godless on Netflix is amazing but really rather dark and brutal. Phenomenal production values and it's certainly a very intense watch, but really well put together with a truly standout villain.

I think I actually watched that one, randomly, on Netflix a while back. Like a year or two ago?

And yes, that was fun!

Fist full of Dollars
For a fistful more
The Good The Bad and The Ugly

Ok so those are often held up as three of the top westerns ever made and some of the most fantastic cinematography as well. If you've ever watched anything like Kill Bill you'll instantly see a lot of where the inspirations for how those are filmed come into play.

However there's also a further selection of grand western films I'd recommend including
Fist full of Dynamite - same team, same actors (in key roles) and yet a slightly more jovial take in parts; but don't let that fool you this film still holds the punches in emotion and film skill.

Once Upon a Time in the West - yes another Sergio film and another powerful western. Whilst this one sometimes gets overlooked compared to the big trio above, its every bit as powerful and good!

Those above are the "must watches" I would say. Westerns for people who are not even western fans and glorious films for those who are.

I'll also second Frazzled's recommendation for the new True Grit film.


After that my suggestions get harder, mostly because whilst I love watching a good western I'm terrible at remembering their titles and they don't appear on the TV half as much as they once did so I'm very out of touch with remembering what I've seen and what they were called.

Appaloosa - been a long while since I last saw this but I have a fond recollection of seeing it and I really should watch it again.


On the TV series front there's Deadwood though I never got to see it (it was never on the free tv channels I had access too and now I glare at it on Amazon Prime willing it to appear)

Further suggestions -
Cowboys and Aliens. Great fun film and rather sad that it didn't to better and spawn a sequel or TV series as it was perfectly setup for it.

Blazing Saddles - satire comedy and chock full of good laughs!

Wild Wild West - Will Smith steam punk sci-fi twist on westerns

Bravestar - cartoon from the 80-90s block (so you know its good); a full sci-fi western take. Possibly a bit young for a mature viewer on first watching, but still good fun.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, what’s the best approach?

When (note the term!) I watch Tombstone, will it ruin a far earlier John Wayne Classic, because it actually had a budget worth a damn?

Or indeed the Dollars Trilogy? Does that set a Star Wars style genre high bar that I might as well disregard earlier ones?

I’m really, genuinely, starting on the bottom rung here. I’d rather build my knowledge base from the lowest rung.

For mine, see my condensed list and watch in that order.

The Wild Bunch, one hell of a deconstruction of the genre and a great movie to boot, YMMV.

Not much to add that's already been mentioned, but personally I would also recommend the Good, the Bad and the Ugly and Unforgiven, which are a pair of excellent Eastwood westerns, the first being one of the best spaghetti's out there, the latter being another amazing deconstruction of both the genre and the parts Eastwood played in the past.

If you've got Netflix, the Ballad of Buster Scruggs is also well worth watching. It's an anthology movie with several short movies that vary in tone and subject matter, but all more or less go nicely together.

Stagecoach: Really good and I loved it.

Just one general thought - westerns tend to travel at one of two general speeds - its either fast and wild; or slow and steady building.
In fact "very" slow by quite a lot of modern film standards, especially action films. This doesn't mean the slower westerns don't have their share of action, but they'll spend longer building up to it and setting the scene. Even within the action they'll have prolonged periods of building suspense. It's something you'll really experience with the Spaghetti westerns, but also a lot of others in the genre.


Personally its something I miss in a lot of modern films. I feel too many try to tell way too much and hurry through it all in a bid to establish themselves which results in less gravity to events because you've hardly built up an association and understanding before the film is pushing forward to change it all

Frazz has a pretty solid list. I'd add High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider as two more good Eastwood entries.

 gorgon wrote:
Frazz has a pretty solid list. I'd add High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider as two more good Eastwood entries.

Pale Rider is a great western!

I should also add Hondo. I quite liked that one. It also treats Apaches better than most films of the time.

 gorgon wrote:
Frazz has a pretty solid list. I'd add High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider as two more good Eastwood entries.

Too be Fair, Frazz Lived through the Old West so he knows what movies are good about it

I like The War Wagon, Big Jake, Rio Lobo, and McLintock really well. All of them are John Wayne movies, and they are all fun in their own way.

I liked both versions of 3:10 to Yuma.

Deadwood is on Prime too, if you want a long form narrative Western.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, what’s the best approach?

When (note the term!) I watch Tombstone, will it ruin a far earlier John Wayne Classic, because it actually had a budget worth a damn?

Or indeed the Dollars Trilogy? Does that set a Star Wars style genre high bar that I might as well disregard earlier ones?

I’m really, genuinely, starting on the bottom rung here. I’d rather build my knowledge base from the lowest rung.

Personally, Tombstone doesn't detract from John Wayne "classics" IF you go into the JW classics with a mind that they are John Wayne movies.

I think realistically, if you feel the need to weight westerns against other westerns do so from the POV of the actors. . . Ie, compare a John Wayne film to another John Wayne film, Clint Eastwood to his other works, etc.

Each era, and each actor had their own distinct characteristic and I think that trying to compare a 90s film like Tombstone to one made in the 1950s does a disservice to both.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Frazz has a pretty solid list. I'd add High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider as two more good Eastwood entries.

Too be Fair, Frazz Lived through the Old West so he knows what movies are good about it

When I talk about the Eighties, I mean the Eighteen Eighties!

Edit: Big Jake is good.

Dont forget Spaghetti westerns to.
They can be quite fun, I cant think of any at the time, but they are fun
DEFINITLY WATCH ORIGINAL DJANGO

Sergio Leone westerns are pretty much the quintessential westerns with a slow pace and a haunting musical score.

The best ones are the Good the Bad and the Ugly, Once Upon a Time in the West, A Fist Full of Dollars and For a Fistful More.

In the TV series, I would recommand Godless Country which is pretty damn solid Netflix series which adds a nice feminine touch to an overwhelmingly male univers of the western.

Dances with the Wolves is pretty much a mandatory Kevin Cosner western and a landmark movie.

For a wierder, horror take on western, I recommand Bone Tomahawk. It's a surprisingly good movie with a small budget.

Quentin Tarantino has made two noteworthy and praise worthy western with his own special sauce of super-charge dialogues and extra violence in the Hateful Height and Django. Both are worth seeing.

The Quick and the Dead is a very much "so bad it's good" western with a debuting Leonardo Dicaprio and a hammy Gene Hackman as the villain. It's almost a cliché parade of western (the vengeful widow, the crime lord, the redempted crimal, the maverick youth, duel galore, etc.).

There is of course the Magnificent 7, which is also extremely well known and had a good quality remake, but I've only seen the original.

Finally two movies that struggles to qualify as western that might still be considered as such the Highwayman, a movie about the hunt of Bonnie and Clyde, feels very much like a late, late era western and the mini-series Hatfields and Mccoys both starring Kevin Cosner are pretty damn good.

Yojimbo
Seven Samurai

Pretty much anything from Kurosawa.

All samurai movies are westerns, all westerns are samurai movies. Go to the source on these two, they’ve been redone a zillion times as westerns.

So, I did a quick Internet search for reminders....

Maverick. It’s got Mel Gibson, before he publicly drank the Kool-aid.

Django Unchained. No punches pulled. I’m not a big Terentino fan, at all, but this was good.

It’s already been mentioned, but the newer version of True Grit is pure gold. I’d call it the “best” western movie.

I remember Young Guns and Young Guns 2 being fun when I was a kid. “Best buck-eighty I ever spent!” Or something like that.

And lastly, a turn into left field. Gran Torino, staring Clint Eastwood. And not just because bark-face is the star (I say it with love and respect) but because the *story* is a Western, just set in the modern West time period. Think about it.

epronovost wrote:

The Quick and the Dead is a very much "so bad it's good" western with a debuting Leonardo Dicaprio a

OT, but Leo had a few under his belt by the time this came out, mainly Whats Eating Gilbert Grape, the one that put him on the map. And who can forget his star turning performance in the classic Critters 3.

I certainly get where you're coming from about not liking the Western genre. I was like that when I was younger, too. It's easy to dislike Westerns when your initial exposure is the utter dreck that Hollywood churned out by the ton in the 40s-60s that were completely formulaic, stereotypical, and full of caricature rather than character.
And then I watched Lonesome Dove, followed by The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly.
The Sergio Leone westerns can be hard for some people to get into: they're very slow compared to almost everything else you may have seen. But, ye gods, they are beautiful to watch and listen to.
And Tommy Lee Jones and Robert Duvall will never have betters roles than Captains Woodrow Call and Augustus McCrae (Lonesome Dove).

I can't really add much to what has already been said, but I will offer an alternative that may be surprisingly good for you to try, as well as being free. Go to Youtube, and look up the old Gunsmoke radio show. Half hour episodes, easy to listen to, and surprisingly well-written and acted compared to much of the previously mentioned dreck that was churned out in the same time period. It has its stereotypes for the period: somewhat unavoidable given it was radio, so you had to immediately establish a character for the audience by voice alone. But it wasn't afraid to tackle some serious subjects for the time. William Conrad absolutely owns as Marshall Matt Dillon.

I think all my top picks have been covered (pretty much anything Sergeo Leone, Clint Eastwood, Lee Van Cleef did)

All the Dollar Westerns

Once Upon a time in the West (and while it's not a western but a gangster film if you can enjoy a long slow movie Once Upon a Time in America is worth watching too)

Pale Rider

The Outlaw Josie Wales

Butch Cassidy & the SUndance kid

(and although some of them aren't great any of Louis L'amour's books that got made into movies are worth seeing.... then read the books https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Films_based_on_works_by_Louis_L%27Amour)

Another vote for the 4 Leone films here.
Blazing Saddles, as mentioned is hilarious (though I'm not sure it could get made today).
I also really like The Magnificent Seven (original one, havn't seen the remake yet).

Finally, the Bud Spencer and Terence Hill spaghetti westerns are a guilty pleasure of mine.

Open Range with Robert Duvall and Kevin Costner is a pretty good film, also.