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Made in nl
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




... and all I get is a 404 error

Anyhow, as soon as that is resolved, let the tears of joy and salt flow here.

edit: aaaand gone. Seems the upload suffered from some warp interference...

Aaand back. Slightly disappointing compared to the Ultrasmurfs IMO, but still decent.

- Devastating Charge is going to hurt. A LOT. Double Chainsword with AP-1 D2 incoming! Now I hope there's going to be a way to turn on Assault Doctrine T1 and T2, even if just for a single unit.
- Previewed Relic is just the bog-standard "+1 to psychic tests from Stormspeaking".
- Nothing about Khan on bike otherwise from the repeated statement that's it's in the supplement
- Kor'Sarro Khan is an excellent duelist but will need a ride to reach them with 6" movement and for as far as I can see no mounted option.
- Previewed warlord trait is +1A for every character that you kill
- I think the Born in the Saddle stratagem is already in the current codex? Might be in a different form though.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/09 16:41:38


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Watch us crash their server reloading the page every few seconds looking it to pop back up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's baa-aaak


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Assault doctrine isn't as good as the UM one, +1 damage on melee weapons is still pretty darn good.

Lightning call looks decent enough, +1 to Psychic tests on the relic is interesting. Depends on what other powers they get obviously.

Born in the Saddle would be a lot better if more things had the Bike keyword.

Overall this is underwhelming compared to the UM reveal.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/09 16:33:40


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Turn 3
-4AP and 4 damage thunderhammers
-1AP 2 damage minimum in CC
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






+1 damage for close combat attacks? If you build around it its probably the most powerful free rule I have ever seen.

White scars bikes can advance and shoot for 1 CP with no penalty with all their weapons - then they can charge. That is huge. Comapny vets on bikes? Can we use index units?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/09 16:37:17


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Xenomancers wrote:
+1 damage for close combat attacks? If you build around it its probably the most powerful free rule I have ever seen.

White scars bikes can advance and shoot for 1 CP with no penalty with all their weapons - then they can charge. That is huge. Comapny vets on bikes? Can we use index units?


+1 damage to CC attacks, but only on a charge or heroic intervention. ...which they'll usually be doing since they can back out of combat and still charge. Ok, better than I thought at first.

Where are you getting "without penalty" from? It just says they can fire after Advancing. [edit] Nevermind, it's on their CT. Carry on then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pandabeer wrote:
- I think the Born in the Saddle stratagem is already in the current codex? Might be in a different form though.

Practically identical, the current one allows charges after advancing as well but that's in the CT now.

That marginally raises the odds that Bolter Drill might actually still be a thing for Imperial Fists.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/09 16:53:17


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Xenomancers wrote:
+1 damage for close combat attacks? If you build around it its probably the most powerful free rule I have ever seen.

White scars bikes can advance and shoot for 1 CP with no penalty with all their weapons - then they can charge. That is huge. Comapny vets on bikes? Can we use index units?


Turn 3 though. I like that this one is more muted. Gives me hope.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
+1 damage for close combat attacks? If you build around it its probably the most powerful free rule I have ever seen.

White scars bikes can advance and shoot for 1 CP with no penalty with all their weapons - then they can charge. That is huge. Comapny vets on bikes? Can we use index units?


Turn 3 though. I like that this one is more muted. Gives me hope.

Maybe turn 3, maybe turn 2. All we know for sure right now is we start on Devastator Doctrine amd can't switch it on the first turn, it's entirely possible we'll be able to jump right from Devastator to Assault on turn 2.

It's also entirely possible that WS will have an "immediately switch to Assault Doctrine" strat. Which would be kind of obnoxious with how fast an advancing bike is.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





The Newman wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
+1 damage for close combat attacks? If you build around it its probably the most powerful free rule I have ever seen.

White scars bikes can advance and shoot for 1 CP with no penalty with all their weapons - then they can charge. That is huge. Comapny vets on bikes? Can we use index units?


Turn 3 though. I like that this one is more muted. Gives me hope.

Maybe turn 3, maybe turn 2. All we know for sure right now is we start on Devastator Doctrine amd can't switch it on the first turn, it's entirely possible we'll be able to jump right from Devastator to Assault on turn 2.

It's also entirely possible that WS will have an "immediately switch to Assault Doctrine" strat. Which would be kind of obnoxious with how fast an advancing bike is.


The rules calls out needing to advance through each of them. There may be a stratagem to change it, but I'll bet it would be costly.

Your Space Marines will begin the battle with the Devastator Doctrine active. At the start of any of your turns (after the first), you can choose to change from the Devastator Doctrine to the Tactical Doctrine, and again on a later turn, from the Tactical Doctrine to the Assault Doctrine.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





The previews seem to indicate that they start with Devastator, but then can switch to Tactical or Assault anytime after turn 1. I am guessing all of these chapters will have a strat allowing them to switch to their preferred doctrine on turn 1 or simply start the game with their preferred doctrine active.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






turn 3 assault would be useless.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




No, it's not. I do tons of turn 3 assaults with BA.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The Newman wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
+1 damage for close combat attacks? If you build around it its probably the most powerful free rule I have ever seen.

White scars bikes can advance and shoot for 1 CP with no penalty with all their weapons - then they can charge. That is huge. Comapny vets on bikes? Can we use index units?


Turn 3 though. I like that this one is more muted. Gives me hope.

Maybe turn 3, maybe turn 2. All we know for sure right now is we start on Devastator Doctrine amd can't switch it on the first turn, it's entirely possible we'll be able to jump right from Devastator to Assault on turn 2.

It's also entirely possible that WS will have an "immediately switch to Assault Doctrine" strat. Which would be kind of obnoxious with how fast an advancing bike is.

Play testing from what has been said publicly was devTac》assualt, so turn 3 minimum.
Scars have some play but it's not exactly a standout.

Iron hands is supposed to be the new meta, and better than ultramarines who so far look like a terrible chapter tactic but they gain big from scions.
From what's been said the chapters that favour devistator doctrine are going to be better than the ones favouring the others due to the lag to get to turn 2/3. The other tactical doctrine chapter(I'm guessing 2, 2 and 2) will be will be ok but presumably lose a little something to Ultramarines in charictors or such.
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






I don't like this trait. It is insanely powerful against certain foes (Primaris, Custodes, Eldar Wraiths) and completely useless against others (one wound screening hordes.) I really don't think more ways to easily kill expensive multiwound elite infantry is something that was needed.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
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Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






I will be sad if we do not get primaris bikes with the whit scars, I was convinced that was the codex that would introduce them.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Xenomancers wrote:
turn 3 assault would be useless.


Turn 1 advance.
Turn 2 clear.
Turn 3 drop & charge.

Bikes might not all be there, but clearing out terrain that lets you place jump packs on turn 2 for a turn 3 jump can work.

And of course you can yabba dabba doo with a Stormraven. AP1 Whirldwinds seems pretty decent to soften up screens turn 1, too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
I will be sad if we do not get primaris bikes with the whit scars, I was convinced that was the codex that would introduce them.


Same. I guess they'll be phase 3 with primaris flyers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/09 17:17:31


[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




What gives me a certain amount of hope is the warlord trait. Not that it's good (it looks like one of those things you'll never use), but because it's a reminder that GW is certain to have put some duds in the Codexes and it's entirely possible that the exciting possibilities we saw in the tactics, unit, and UM previews are GW spoiling all the good stuff, while the WS preview is mostly showing us flavor and not the things we're going to get the most use out of.

"Hey, temper your expectations. Yeah there's good stuff coming, but there's gonna be some dross in there too."
   
Made in nl
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




 Daedalus81 wrote:
The Newman wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
+1 damage for close combat attacks? If you build around it its probably the most powerful free rule I have ever seen.

White scars bikes can advance and shoot for 1 CP with no penalty with all their weapons - then they can charge. That is huge. Comapny vets on bikes? Can we use index units?


Turn 3 though. I like that this one is more muted. Gives me hope.

Maybe turn 3, maybe turn 2. All we know for sure right now is we start on Devastator Doctrine amd can't switch it on the first turn, it's entirely possible we'll be able to jump right from Devastator to Assault on turn 2.

It's also entirely possible that WS will have an "immediately switch to Assault Doctrine" strat. Which would be kind of obnoxious with how fast an advancing bike is.


The rules calls out needing to advance through each of them. There may be a stratagem to change it, but I'll bet it would be costly.

Your Space Marines will begin the battle with the Devastator Doctrine active. At the start of any of your turns (after the first), you can choose to change from the Devastator Doctrine to the Tactical Doctrine, and again on a later turn, from the Tactical Doctrine to the Assault Doctrine.


Which is fair, but I'd love to charge a single blob of bikes into something valuable T1 and smash it up, even if that costs me 3 CP
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 Crimson wrote:
I don't like this trait. It is insanely powerful against certain foes (Primaris, Custodes, Eldar Wraiths) and completely useless against others (one wound screening hordes.) I really don't think more ways to easily kill expensive multiwound elite infantry is something that was needed.


Marines needed some option vs bulls, wraiths, grots though.
   
Made in nl
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




 G00fySmiley wrote:
I will be sad if we do not get primaris bikes with the whit scars, I was convinced that was the codex that would introduce them.


I can't imagine primaris won't get any bikes whatsoever, but they won't be getting them now (and whether those will be of the wheeled or the jet variety remains to be seen I guess). With this the bikes we have now and even attack bikes will be more than serviceable for WS though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/09 17:32:03


 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
turn 3 assault would be useless.


Turn 1 advance.
Turn 2 clear.
Turn 3 drop & charge.

Bikes might not all be there, but clearing out terrain that lets you place jump packs on turn 2 for a turn 3 jump can work.

And of course you can yabba dabba doo with a Stormraven. AP1 Whirldwinds seems pretty decent to soften up screens turn 1, too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
I will be sad if we do not get primaris bikes with the whit scars, I was convinced that was the codex that would introduce them.


Same. I guess they'll be phase 3 with primaris flyers.


honestly given the age of space marine kits I am expecting "storm ravens can hold primaris now and primaris pilots are able to ft in storm talons/eagles/pigeons/tucans/seagulls

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Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Crimson wrote:
I don't like this trait. It is insanely powerful against certain foes (Primaris, Custodes, Eldar Wraiths) and completely useless against others (one wound screening hordes.) I really don't think more ways to easily kill expensive multiwound elite infantry is something that was needed.
The best part is for cheap hordes - FNP will be practically useless for them on 1 W models now. Really I've never played against an army that didn't have at least a few units with some toughness. Marines aren't gonna have any issue with those armies anyways. Marine armies all have tons of bolters.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






Pandabeer wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
I will be sad if we do not get primaris bikes with the whit scars, I was convinced that was the codex that would introduce them.


I can't imagine primaris won't get any bikes whatsoever, but they won't be getting them now (whether those are of the wheeled or jet variety remains to be seen I guess). With this the bikes we have now and even attack bikes will be more than serviceable for WS though.


oh yea they are totally coming I just liek my biker armies, I have basically every faction that can do bikers and full armies of each. I cannot wait to get my hands on them

my iron hands bikes got better, same with white scars. may run white scars allied to iron hands allied to custodes bikes for a bikestar list.

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Made in nl
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
turn 3 assault would be useless.


Turn 1 advance.
Turn 2 clear.
Turn 3 drop & charge.

Bikes might not all be there, but clearing out terrain that lets you place jump packs on turn 2 for a turn 3 jump can work.



Hmm... 19 point Vanguard Vets with Chainswords, Storm Shields and jump packs with 4 AP-1 D2 attacks each

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/09 18:48:15


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Pandabeer wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
turn 3 assault would be useless.


Turn 1 advance.
Turn 2 clear.
Turn 3 drop & charge.

Bikes might not all be there, but clearing out terrain that lets you place jump packs on turn 2 for a turn 3 jump can work.



Hmm... 19 point Vanguard Vets with Chainswords, Storm Shields and jump packs with 4 AP-1 D2 attacks each

This guy gets it, were probably going to still be better off with detachements of specific units in a chapter detachment, than actually playing mono chaptrr unfortunately but that's 8th edition soup is best.
   
Made in ca
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Ice_can wrote:
Pandabeer wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
turn 3 assault would be useless.


Turn 1 advance.
Turn 2 clear.
Turn 3 drop & charge.

Bikes might not all be there, but clearing out terrain that lets you place jump packs on turn 2 for a turn 3 jump can work.



Hmm... 19 point Vanguard Vets with Chainswords, Storm Shields and jump packs with 4 AP-1 D2 attacks each

This guy gets it, were probably going to still be better off with detachements of specific units in a chapter detachment, than actually playing mono chaptrr unfortunately but that's 8th edition soup is best.


It's why I'd love for GW to come out and say "allies are not for tournament play" then watch the competitive scene collapse lol
   
Made in us
Legendary Dogfighter





Me sitting over here waiting for the Grey Knights Codex release like:

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 fraser1191 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
Pandabeer wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
turn 3 assault would be useless.


Turn 1 advance.
Turn 2 clear.
Turn 3 drop & charge.

Bikes might not all be there, but clearing out terrain that lets you place jump packs on turn 2 for a turn 3 jump can work.



Hmm... 19 point Vanguard Vets with Chainswords, Storm Shields and jump packs with 4 AP-1 D2 attacks each

This guy gets it, were probably going to still be better off with detachements of specific units in a chapter detachment, than actually playing mono chaptrr unfortunately but that's 8th edition soup is best.


It's why I'd love for GW to come out and say "allies are not for tournament play" then watch the competitive scene collapse lol

Better get your CV polished up to apply for the diector of GW then as that's the only way that's happening.
GW loves this soupy souping soupfest, heck they even handed out croutons.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Pandabeer wrote:
Hmm... 19 point Vanguard Vets with Chainswords, Storm Shields and jump packs with 4 AP-1 D2 attacks each


It's weird because it's best on things that were iffy to begin with. Power Mauls going up to S+2, Ap2, D2 is almost silly good for a 4 point weapon.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Ice_can wrote:
Pandabeer wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
turn 3 assault would be useless.


Turn 1 advance.
Turn 2 clear.
Turn 3 drop & charge.

Bikes might not all be there, but clearing out terrain that lets you place jump packs on turn 2 for a turn 3 jump can work.



Hmm... 19 point Vanguard Vets with Chainswords, Storm Shields and jump packs with 4 AP-1 D2 attacks each

This guy gets it, were probably going to still be better off with detachements of specific units in a chapter detachment, than actually playing mono chaptrr unfortunately but that's 8th edition soup is best.

Without a lynchpin unit like gman or a 3 CP Chpater master. You absolutely should be running whatever chapter suits your unit the most.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The Newman wrote:
Pandabeer wrote:
Hmm... 19 point Vanguard Vets with Chainswords, Storm Shields and jump packs with 4 AP-1 D2 attacks each


It's weird because it's best on things that were iffy to begin with. Power Mauls going up to S+2, Ap2, D2 is almost silly good for a 4 point weapon.


I could be mis-remembering but wasnt there a Power Lance in the Index that was statwise identical to the Maul?

Cause that'd be fun to see make a comeback with this doctrine. Who says bananna boys get all the jousting fun?
   
 
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