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Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

So my son has a Helverin Armiger and was planning to eventually expand into Knights, however with the upcoming Space Marine rules and Combat Doctrine, we've decided to stay focused on his Salamanders.
It appears you can't have non-Astartes units and still use the Combat Doctrines, so we are going to use his Armiger as a special Dread, but which one? The Relic Comtemptor Dread with 2 twin Autocannons seems the best choice. We can slap on some extra armour plates and purity seals, paint it in the Slamanders scheme and we're pretty much done.

Are there any other Marine Dreads that would better fit the look of the Armiger?

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/12 14:40:39


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




He does technically need the FW index for the relic Contemptor datasheet, but as a proxy it's the most similar in terms of loadout.

Also they technically need an FAQ to give them angles of death to enable them to have combat doctrines and not break the marines rules.

I'll try and remember to compair my Contemptor vrs armigers to give you a size comparison.
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Ohio

Armigers are larger than a Contemptor.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




For kitchen table stuff it’s a decent stand in, but contemptors are smaller and stockier than the relatively spindly armigers.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

The size difference isn't big enough for us to worry about it (or at least we are ok with the slight disadvantage it brings). I also have some left-over Dread armour bits to beef up the legs
What's most important is that we have a Dread profile and loadout that is appropriate. Same T, number of wounds, similar damage output but benefits from Chapter stuff.

Good call on not having the Doctrines though. I think we can assume they are supposed to have them, even though the FW stuff is unlikely to get any FAQ to that effect, sadly

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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/12 15:23:46


   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






In terms of overall size you could use it as a Leviathan.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 Insectum7 wrote:
In terms of overall size you could use it as a Leviathan.
I though about that, but I don't think there is a weapon loadout that looks like 2 Autocannons.

-

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






 Galef wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
In terms of overall size you could use it as a Leviathan.
I though about that, but I don't think there is a weapon loadout that looks like 2 Autocannons.

-

Oh I'd just run them as the stormcannons or whatever those things are. They're big autocannons, which is what the Armiger has. Your call though, your (very local) meta.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

Holy moly! I just looked that up. Am I right in reading that a Leviathan can take 2 Stormcannons for a total of 20 shots???!?!?!?
If so, I think that's what he'll want even if it's hella expensive

-

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Leviathans are effectively Astartes Knights.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

Sterling191 wrote:
Leviathans are effectively Astartes Knights.
then that's what he'll want I'm sure

-

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Galef wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
Leviathans are effectively Astartes Knights.
then that's what he'll want I'm sure

-

You can field 2 contemptors for the points but yeah Leviathans are beasts.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






 Galef wrote:
Holy moly! I just looked that up. Am I right in reading that a Leviathan can take 2 Stormcannons for a total of 20 shots???!?!?!?
If so, I think that's what he'll want even if it's hella expensive

-


BLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM!

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I don't understand the FW design paradigm for marine dreads. They are such a departure from the codex, I question whether they should be allowed with the new codex.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule





Martel732 wrote:
I don't understand the FW design paradigm for marine dreads. They are such a departure from the codex, I question whether they should be allowed with the new codex.


The design paradigm is that they fit in 10,000 years in the past.
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

Why? Primaris Marines makes 40k marines closer to the Heresy era with their single weapon load outs. 30k stuff is becoming more appropriate, not less.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I mean stat-wise, not lore-wise. Since they are 40K legal, their lore doesn't matter.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Martel732 wrote:
I don't understand the FW design paradigm for marine dreads. They are such a departure from the codex, I question whether they should be allowed with the new codex.

I really don't get your hate for all things Forgeworld, but banning other people's toys is not cool in anyway.

You complain X or Y doesn't work, Forgeworld designers played the game as it's played against the guard codex etc when playtesting the units they weren't told untilk too late to play test against indexes. So conpaired to the codex trash that was barely viable against index they are viable units.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I hate autotakes. Hate them. And FW dreads scream autotake, except in resin.

It's not all things FW. It's specifically FW marine dreads. Because their stats are so fethed up compared to regular dreads. They aren't even the same unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 15:24:10


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Martel732 wrote:
I hate autotakes. Hate them. And FW dreads scream autotake, except in resin.

It's not all things FW. It's specifically FW marine dreads. Because their stats are so fethed up compared to regular dreads. They aren't even the same unit.

Seriously go see someone about your mood, this everything sucks attitude isn't healthy.

No Codex dreadnaughts have janked up stats that make them rediculous when compaired with what the fluff says they should be.

But seriously if you dont like them don't use them stop trying to get other peoples stuff banned it's seriously not cool.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




My wishes mean nothing. They are already banned in ETC and Europe isn't on fire. Plenty of FW bans in tournaments in 5th ed, too.

I'm sick of seeing leviathans in marine lists. I'm sick of playing against them.

I want capt slam gone, too. I hate the concept, but I have to use it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 16:01:42


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Levi dreads with dual storm cannons are beasts but suck in combat and have 24” range. So what if your opponents use one of the few (up until now) actually competitive units for space marines? Last I checked the only reason they stand out so much is because the rest of the army sucked so badly. Yeah I suppose that makes them auto take but that’s idiotic reasoning.

AND I have a feeling, based off the changes to FW knights recently, that their invuln will soon get reduced or changed to ranged only (which I think is fair combined with a point drop for the chassis).
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

Martel732 wrote:
My wishes mean nothing. They are already banned in ETC and Europe isn't on fire. Plenty of FW bans in tournaments in 5th ed, too.


This thread is about Galef and his son figuring out rules they want to use for the models they have, not tournaments.


Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 frozenwastes wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
My wishes mean nothing. They are already banned in ETC and Europe isn't on fire. Plenty of FW bans in tournaments in 5th ed, too.


This thread is about Galef and his son figuring out rules they want to use for the models they have, not tournaments.

Right, and to that affect, the Leviathan is way to OP for our little meta, so we won't be using its rules. The Relic Contemptor seems far more appropriate

-

   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I would discourage the leviathan dread, then.

Relic contemptor is crazy efficient, but not as soulcrushing as the leviathan.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 16:53:28


 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

 Galef wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
My wishes mean nothing. They are already banned in ETC and Europe isn't on fire. Plenty of FW bans in tournaments in 5th ed, too.


This thread is about Galef and his son figuring out rules they want to use for the models they have, not tournaments.

Right, and to that affect, the Leviathan is way to OP for our little meta, so we won't be using its rules. The Relic Contemptor seems far more appropriate

-


Yeah, but again, that's another forge world model so I guess Martel732 would still object

Find which rules are fun. Try them both. Try equipping just one cannon and make the close combat attacks the thing just stomping and bashing. Adjust the points if you think Forgeworld got it really wrong (I think they did too).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 16:59:14


Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I just said its not as bad. I object to fw handing out bs 2+ like candy. Its like they didnt read the other entries.
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Ohio

Here's a pic of a Contemptor next to a Warglaive. Sorry it's late, been busy.
[Thumb - IMG_20190813_152244.jpg]

[Thumb - IMG_20190813_152255.jpg]

   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

Thanx for the size comparison. Mass-wise they look pretty similar even if their silhouettes differ. And that's what's important to us. Both are T7 with 12W, are faster than regular Dreads, and can take 2 Autocannons type weapons.

We might try the Leviathan in later games if he really wants to face my nastiest Eldar list, but I still want my boys to like playing this game (which is why I'm so excited about the recent Marine stuff), so that's not something we are likely to play

Although I am starting to think putting the Twin Autocannons on his Ven Dread would be better and put 2 Twin Lascannons on his "Relic Contemptor".

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 20:52:43


   
Made in gb
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker





Luton, England

Obviously playing at home with your son you can happily use anything as anything :-)


For a pickup game in a store I'd say the size and silhouette difference is a little far out for a counts as. Add to that that they are pretty different units from different factions that look nothing alike.


Perhaps a different option would be to sell your armiger on ebay, I suspect you'd get enough for it to buy a Calth dreadnought :-)

30,000pts
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