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How do!

It's another 'lets all think of amusing ways to kill gangers' thread. YAY!

Last time, we discussed the myriad possibilities of killy kritters, including inspiration from the original Rogue Trader rulebook. The convo was good, and many ideas were discussed.

This time? I want to focus on late campaign twists. Ways to challenge the more advanced and skilled Gangs, and if needed, knock them down a peg or two, should the campaign have a serious divide in Gang Ratings.

And I'm gonna kick off with a Top Tier Threat. The Triple AAA (so, nine A. Or AAA AAA AAA) of horrible ways to die. Astartes.

See, I just discussed this in the rumour thread, and my mind went ping. See, as well as being a really solid combatant, to make an Astartes fit the Underhive, you really need to be looking at the psychological side of fighting one.

See, an Astartes isn't just a skilled warrior. They're highly specialised terror troops, with weapons to match. Going up against them, when a Gang is ultimately still just some Civvies that think they're ded 'ard should be terrifying for a Gang.

For my inspiration on how nasty? Think the relentless of Jason Voorhees, with the toughness of a Terminator, the combat skills of a Predator, all wrapped up in armour that makes Iron Man look like his tinfoil hat got out of hand.

The armour itself should be more than a save, because it has all sorts of bells and doohickies which Necromunda can reflect in a way 40k can't. So think every scope ever, built in. You can't deafen them, smoke does nothing, chems do nothing. You literally cannot hide.

If you're in cover, and your charged by an Astartes? Think Robocop. Because when you're a 7' tall post-human demigod in Power Armour, you don't need a door. Just pile straight on through that decayed crap. Yep, I'm thinking impact hits. Because an Astartes running full pelt into you is like being hit by a car doing 30. Well, a car doing 30 with a chainsaw strapped to it.

Their Bolter would have more shots - because you need to scale up. Possibly be somewhere between the common or garden variety Bolter and a Heavy Bolter. They can aim better, they've got better ammo reserves, and they can deal with the recoil easily.

HTH? First up, you can absolutely forget parrying, unless you've got high initiative. Because trying to block is just gonna ensure your weapon cuts you a millisecond before the chainsword or combat blade does.

From the first casualty (bonuses to see whether your down or out. Astartes simply don't deal in Flesh Wounds), you're taking Bottle Tests. And every casualty after inflicts a significant modifier. Because that Astartes isn't just taking your dudes down, he's doing so at ridiculous speed, and with utmost effectiveness.

The hallmark of having taken on a single Astartes will be more than the odd casualty (possibly even 'no serious injury rolls, you're just dead) - but also a significant drop in Gang Rating. See, The Big Bad Gang went out into the wastes, and came back so utterly horrified at what they witnessed, their air of superiority is gone. The survivors are never going to sleep again. They'll always be twitchy, in case that post-human comes for them to finish the job.

And that's before getting into what you might see a Chaos Astartes do to what's left of your mates...

So clearly, my vision of Astartes in the Underhive is not something to be used often. It should be a spectacle game. Something to knock back someone who'd taken and only extended an early campaign lead, without simply wiping out their gang or outlawing them. This is End Game type stuff.

Just....prepare for the player to be utterly insufferable if, as the dice often allow, they pull off the miracle and slay the Astartes.

I actually ran an Astartes skirmish game using the new-cromunda ruleset a little while ago with my PC's being the Astartes and their opposition being Chaos and Genestealer cultists using the necro rules for them.

I used a cost of 500pts per space marine, and used the necromunda statlines for the weaponry.

M:6" WS: 3+ BS: 3+ S: 4 T: 4 W: 2 I: 3+ A: 2 LD: 5+ CL: 4+ Will: 6+ Int: 6+

Equipment: Power Armor (same as Heavy Carapace w/armored undersuit), Skinblade, Respirator, Frag Grenade, Krak Grenade

Skills: True Grit, Nerves of Steel, Overwatch, Unstoppable

Additional Skill: Tactical Flexibility. Space Marines are equipped with up to four weapons from the Space Marine equipment list, with each weapon in the Rifle list taking up 2 slots and each weapon in the Heavy list taking up 3. Space Marines gain Swap Weapons as a basic action, allowing them to exchange the euqipment they're currently holding for any other equipment that can be held in 2 hands.

Additional Skill: Armory of the Emperor

Space Marines treat all weapons as if they have the Plentiful Trait, and ignore the Scarce trait.

I allowed my players to select up to 200pts of weaponry from the following lists:


Melee Weapons:

Power Knife 25pts
Chainsword 25pts
Power Axe 35pts
Thunder Hammer/Power Fist 70pts
Power Maul 30pts
Power Sword 50pts
Fighting Knife 15pts

Rifle Weapons:

Boltgun 55pts
Plasma Gun 100pts
Grav Gun 120pts
Meltagun 135pts
Flamer 140pts
Combi-Melta 170pts
Combi-Plasma 115pts
Combi-Grav 145pts
Combi-Flamer 175pts

Heavy Weapons:

Plasma Cannon 130pts
Multi-Melta 180pts
Heavy bolter 160pts
Heavy Flamer 195pts
Lascannon: 155pts
Missile Launcher: 165pts

Pistol Weapons

Plasma Pistol: 50pts
Hand Flamer: 75pts
Bolt Pistol 45pts

other Equipment

Melta Bomb 60pts

End of the day, I had four Astartes running against 2,000 gang value of cultists and we played a shock assault style mission where the cultists started in Patrols and on the board, representing the astartes' superior intel. The marines won the mission with a single casualty, so I think it turned out fairly well balanced.

It seems like you want to go more homebrew with the astartes' rules and make them more of an overwhelming existential threat. My goal was to integrate them as a "realistic" level of threat at the power level necromunda seems to operate at, where SM level weaponry isn't unheard of for gangers to have.

Yup I think everything should be scaled up for a marine.

There's no way an Orlock ganger could ever really reach Strength 5 in 40k - stronger than a basic 8' tall Primaris marine - it's just not feasible, which means Necromunda is obviously scaled to a much narrower frame of reference.

I'd be thinking str. 5 toughness 6 as a starting point - that'd make wound rolls for lasguns and autoguns need a 6+ to wound, I'd probably give power armour a 3+ save on 2D6 and I'd make the bolter they use Str. 5 Rapid fire 2.

Probably also give them 6 wounds?

Your deeper thoughts on the advanced armour tech and the trauma a gang would experience fighting one of these monsters is really cool!

Andy Hoare did mention once before that a lot of a Marine's abilities could be represented by various skills. For example, the acidic saliva; that might be best represented by the Escape Artist skill. Most Marines won't be regularly gobbing on their enemies, but they can use it to chew through cell bars, for example.

Also, while most underhivers won't have seen a Marine, they'll hear about them in legends, myths and sermons. coming up against a Marine will be like devoutly Christian soldiers being faced with the angelic hosts descending upon them. On at least a subconscious level any Imperial (or ex-Imperial) citizens are going to feel like they're in the wrong.

Tactically? If the Marine is an Imperial Fist, there's a good chance he came from round here; he'll be looking in the same nooks and shadows you'll be trying to hide in.