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I'm this close to biting the bullet and painting up my old marines as either Salamanders or as one of their successors. However...

* The pyromania of the Salamanders can be just a bit much for me.
* The only successor chapters some brief googling revealed are the Black Dragons and Storm Giants.
* Black Dragons are awesome, but I don't have the skills to convert up that many bone swords/crests or to paint that much black.
* Storm Giants are fine but kind of bland, and I don't love their color scheme.


So, are there any other known/suspected Salamander successors I"m not aware of? And how likely is it for Salamanders to have successors in general? I'm under the impression that they're perpetually short-handed implying that successor chapters would probably only happen as a result of someone using their tithed geneseed (Black Dragons) or as a result of the Salamanders themselves having relatively prosperous periods that doesn't seem to be mentioned in the lore from what I can tell.

Salamander sucessor chapters are rare and few in number but they absolutely exist. they ahd no 2nd founding sucessors due to shortages of personal (recovering from Istavann) and as such they never really where seen as a tradtional
"go to" for sucessors. but yeah some exist. they're not like space wolves whom for ages where specificly said NOT to have sucessors. but there aren't many/any known but this is an advantage create your own custom sucessor and make them a salamnders sucessor.

Salamanders have no known successors, some suspected ones, but nothing official. Presumably there would have been some Ultima or Greyshield successors, but then again, maybe not.

I can't recall which book it's in, but one of the Space Marine short stories focusses on Salamanders and heavily implies that the Dragon Warriors Chaos Marine warband are either a successor chapter gone wrong, or a bunch of traitor Salamanders. I could be wrong but remember the Dragon Warriors being pretty numerous and not matching the typical Salamander physical traits/mutations, so I'd be inclined to think they're a successor rather than Salamanders themselves.

There are no confirmed successors and if there are, the Salamanders claim no kinship with them.
The Dragon warriors are lead by an ex Salamanders librarian named Nihilan that was kicked out for doing heretical stuff and has a huge grudge against them for killing his warbands old leader.

Animus wrote:Salamanders have no known successors, some suspected ones, but nothing official. Presumably there would have been some Ultima or Greyshield successors, but then again, maybe not.

Wildkarrde wrote:There are no confirmed successors and if there are, the Salamanders claim no kinship with them.
The Dragon warriors are lead by an ex Salamanders librarian named Nihilan that was kicked out for doing heretical stuff and has a huge grudge against them for killing his warbands old leader.

In the new codex the 18th has no listed successors. It's kinda cool that they're the only ones.

There probably are successors that have been created by the stored geneseed by the mechanicum but the Salamanders them selves do not accept and/or see them as being successors. Hence why the 2 possible examples are just guesses based on some traits that seem common. The only ones who would know for sure are the mechanicum.

One wonders if perhaps the Salamanders are just hostile to the idea of having sucessor chapters

Codex Space Marines 2019 wrote:When the Codex Astartes was revealed, Vulkan was amongst those Primarchs who opposed Guilliman’s decision to split the power of the Legions. Whilst it is unknown what words were exchanged between the two Primarchs, it is believed that Vulkan approached his brother to humbly express his concerns over his Legion’s already seriously depleted numbers. Whatever was said, Guilliman eventually relented; the Salamanders were made exempt from being divided into multiple Chapters, and it is a matter of continued debate whether any successors were created during subsequent foundings using the Salamanders’ gene-seed. The similarities in physique, markings and tactical dogma of several other Chapters, however – such as the Black Dragons and Storm Giants – make it seem likely.

They were always one of the smaller legions to begin with and then at the first founding, they were too small to split. So I think it's more they never had the same experiance as the bigger legions of separating. I guess they just never had a kinship with another chapter like the ultramarines where they knew the marines that went to the new chapter.

Just as likely that Guilliman is a petty dick and his price for not splitting the legion was no successors.

The whole point to the codex was not to stop another heresy but to actually be another heresy and allow girlyman to consolidate power neuter his brothers and take control.

The Ultramarines never actually split in any meaningful way and we’re all ready the largest remaining force due to taking a wrong turn somewhere and missing the heresy due to building his own power base/imperium.

He conspired with Cawl to commit heresy by stealing the emperors secrets for creating marines and producing a new mutant species of marines in vast numbers all to be equipped with tech heretic weapons designed to kill real marines.

He used his position on the council of terra to hinder the loyal primarchs and there forces by sending them into meat grinder missions while protecting his UM.

I personally believe he was the reason that most of the other loyal primarchs “disappeared” I mean it’s not like he was not in charge of the assassin temples.

Looking at the current timeline Girlyman empire mk2 seems to have kicked off fast so I would say he was only weeks from making his move before he got his throat slit and chaos accidentally saved the imperium.

SeanDrake wrote:

Just as likely that Guilliman is a petty dick and his price for not splitting the legion was no successors.

except numerous soruces all say the salamanders didn't have the resources to split into multiple chapters.which was why Vulkan talked to Gulliman. assuming Gulliman was somehow a petty donkey-cave about that would require some sort of proof he was that much of a petty donkey-cave. and there's not much evidance for that.

The whole point to the codex was not to stop another heresy but to actually be another heresy and allow girlyman to consolidate power neuter his brothers and take control.

Gulliman already ahd the strongest Legion at the time of the 2nd founding. the idea that he split the legions to weaken his rivals is nonsensiacal, he weakened HIMSELF more then anyone else. Th codex's job was indeed to ensure no legion wopuld turn traitor again.. and it WORKED. The largest war fought between Astartes since then was the Badab War,
which say 4 (or 5) chapters of space Marines turn. that's 5000 or so Space Marines tops. a paltry number comapred to the Legions of old. At REDUCING THE COST of upper echelon heresy the Codex was a rousing sucess.

The Ultramarines never actually split in any meaningful way and we’re all ready the largest remaining force due to taking a wrong turn somewhere and missing the heresy due to building his own power base/imperium.

Yes because it's the Ultramarines who meet every century ago to stage an elaborate swordfighting compeition, ohh wait that's the Imperial Fists. It's the Ultramarines who have regular meetings among chapter masters who all take their orders from the first founders leader.. ohh wait, thats the dark angels. It's the Ultramarines who summoned their every sucessor to defend their homeworld when it was under Tyranid threat... ohh wait thats the Blood Angels.

He conspired with Cawl to commit heresy by stealing the emperors secrets for creating marines and producing a new mutant species of marines in vast numbers all to be equipped with tech heretic weapons designed to kill real marines.

The Custodes say the Primaris is the Emperor's will.. I'm gonna take their word for that.

He used his position on the council of terra to hinder the loyal primarchs and there forces by sending them into meat grinder missions while protecting his UM.

No he didn't, Dorn rushed into the Iron Cage by himself. the soruce material is clear that the Ultramarines where the speartip of the scouring. Gulliman was "Said to have been everywhere during this period, rallying the Imperial defenders and reinforcing them with his Ultramarines before moving on to the next battle zone" This doesn't mean the other Legions didn't do their part, but the Ultramarines where large and comparitvily fresh and thus could take up the slack. (the novel Ruinstorm implies the Dark Angels and Ultramarines may have, essentially, begun the scouring before the battle of Terra had even properly began, cutting off Horus' logistics train)

I personally believe he was the reason that most of the other loyal primarchs “disappeared” I mean it’s not like he was not in charge of the assassin temples.

and you'd be wrong.

Looking at the current timeline Girlyman empire mk2 seems to have kicked off fast so I would say he was only weeks from making his move before he got his throat slit and chaos accidentally saved the imperium.

you realize that's because Gulliman was just resuming a post he already had right? there was no need for a coup, following the Heresy Gulliman WAS running the Empire, with his brothers BLESSING. I mean seriously, do you think RUSS had any intreast in dealing with Terran politics and rule?!

Exactly. Guilliman split the legions so that no one man had such power... then made himself the Lord Commander having much greater authority. The guy is an usurper and a hypocrite of the highest order.

 Crimson wrote:
Exactly. Guilliman split the legions so that no one man had such power... then made himself the Lord Commander having much greater authority. The guy is an usurper and a hypocrite of the highest order.

A usurper implies he stole someone else's throne.

He also gave up power immediately after the crisis was over and returned it to the people the Emperor had originally appointed (the High Lords).

 Crazyterran wrote:
He also gave up power immediately after the crisis was over and returned it to the people the Emperor had originally appointed (the High Lords).

Did he surrender power formally or did it happen once he got tossed in stasis for 10k years? I'm iffy on that bit of the timeline. I can certainly see Gulliman setting up a government to function nicely and then heading off to handle the military matters well telling the folks back on Terra "you got this, lemme know if you need anything"

I'm also thinking about a Salamanders successor (would do Sallies, but having DAs I don't want more green). I've enjoyed adding them to my Deathwatch for sure. I want to keep the dragon theme but will probably go with red armour (very tempted to tie this in with a Samurai theme). I'm going to wait for the supplement before I choose.

 bullyboy wrote:
I'm also thinking about a Salamanders successor (would do Sallies, but having DAs I don't want more green). I've enjoyed adding them to my Deathwatch for sure. I want to keep the dragon theme but will probably go with red armour (very tempted to tie this in with a Samurai theme). I'm going to wait for the supplement before I choose.

How about go with red with white shoudlerpads and a oriental dragon in red on the shoulder?
Call them "Sons of the Dragon" "Risen Sons" ?

How about "Divine Sons"?
Puppetswar has Samurai heads: https://puppetswar.eu/catalogsearch/result/?q=samurai
Katanas: https://puppetswar.eu/models-and-bits-47/sci-fi/mankind/bits/infantry-weapons/katanas-right.html
Sashimono (back banners) https://puppetswar.eu/models-and-bits-47/sci-fi/mankind/bits/infantry-equipment/bushi-banners.html

And for the OP:
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Salamanders

BrianDavion wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I'm also thinking about a Salamanders successor (would do Sallies, but having DAs I don't want more green). I've enjoyed adding them to my Deathwatch for sure. I want to keep the dragon theme but will probably go with red armour (very tempted to tie this in with a Samurai theme). I'm going to wait for the supplement before I choose.

How about go with red with white shoudlerpads and a oriental dragon in red on the shoulder?
Call them "Sons of the Dragon" "Risen Sons" ?

While not personally a big Ultra Marine fan, I never got the hate for Bobby G picking up the pieces after the Heresy.

Who else would have done it, The emperor was crippled, Malcador was dead and the only other primarch that had shown any real though for logistics and politics ran off with most of his legion and got most of them killed.

I don't know the exact order of who disappeared when but if he hadn't stepped in the IOM would have likely broken into a bunch of tiny empires vulnerable to larger powers.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
While not personally a big Ultra Marine fan, I never got the hate for Bobby G picking up the pieces after the Heresy.

Who else would have done it, The emperor was crippled, Malcador was dead and the only other primarch that had shown any real though for logistics and politics ran off with most of his legion and got most of them killed.

I don't know the exact order of who disappeared when but if he hadn't stepped in the IOM would have likely broken into a bunch of tiny empires vulnerable to larger powers.

back in 5th edition the space marine codex was EXTREMELY Ultramarines centric. refering to Gulliman of a spiritual leige of all space marine chapters. this triggered people who played a chapter other then Ultramarines. and lead to all sorts of wild hate on him in some attempt to basicly tear him down to build their own primarch up.

BrianDavion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
While not personally a big Ultra Marine fan, I never got the hate for Bobby G picking up the pieces after the Heresy.

Who else would have done it, The emperor was crippled, Malcador was dead and the only other primarch that had shown any real though for logistics and politics ran off with most of his legion and got most of them killed.

I don't know the exact order of who disappeared when but if he hadn't stepped in the IOM would have likely broken into a bunch of tiny empires vulnerable to larger powers.

back in 5th edition the space marine codex was EXTREMELY Ultramarines centric. refering to Gulliman of a spiritual leige of all space marine chapters. this triggered people who played a chapter other then Ultramarines. and lead to all sorts of wild hate on him in some attempt to basicly tear him down to build their own primarch up.

Which is stupid because he was one of the most effective Primarchs if certain players decided to get their lore outside 1d4chan for once.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
While not personally a big Ultra Marine fan, I never got the hate for Bobby G picking up the pieces after the Heresy.

Who else would have done it, The emperor was crippled, Malcador was dead and the only other primarch that had shown any real though for logistics and politics ran off with most of his legion and got most of them killed.

I don't know the exact order of who disappeared when but if he hadn't stepped in the IOM would have likely broken into a bunch of tiny empires vulnerable to larger powers.

back in 5th edition the space marine codex was EXTREMELY Ultramarines centric. refering to Gulliman of a spiritual leige of all space marine chapters. this triggered people who played a chapter other then Ultramarines. and lead to all sorts of wild hate on him in some attempt to basicly tear him down to build their own primarch up.

Which is stupid because he was one of the most effective Primarchs if certain players decided to get their lore outside 1d4chan for once.

ohh I agree. Hell here's soemthing funny, the Matt Ward 5th edition codex was more right then wrong. basicly when you boil down what the codex says it basicly says "even Marines whom aren't ultramarines sucessors hold Gulliman in insanely high regard" and well.. I suspect thats true. Gulliman was achomplished eneugh that none could deny his acheivements.

As a rule, new chapters are made with stored geneseed from Mars. The only exceptions should be the second founding and the Sons of Medusa. The Salamander geneseed could be used in dozens of chapters but they wouldn’t be Nocturnean or Promethean style culture. Unless the Salamanders were part of their early training and were also told that they were genetically linked, the new chapter would only have physical similarities, not cultural.

The progenitor legion thing is pretty played. It’s helpful for a crude product where there are a few different classes or races, but when it comes to warhammer it breaks the fourth wall to be told so bluntly that this is just a mass market video game.

BrianDavion wrote:
Hell here's soemthing funny, the Matt Ward 5th edition codex was more right then wrong.

What I don't understand is why Matt Ward gets all the blame for supposedly over-fanboying the Ultramarines. They have been explicitly described by GW as "the greatest of all Space Marine chapters" since 2nd edition. Rick Priestley and Jervis Johnson are the ones who decided that should be the case. Ward just took what had already been canon for a decade and a half and ran with it. And his version of Codex: Space Marines was nowhere near as Ultramarines-centric as the 2nd edition version, which was literally called Codex: Ultramarines despite being intended to cover all chapters that weren't Space Wolves, Blood Angels or Dark Angels.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
While not personally a big Ultra Marine fan, I never got the hate for Bobby G picking up the pieces after the Heresy.

Who else would have done it, The emperor was crippled, Malcador was dead and the only other primarch that had shown any real though for logistics and politics ran off with most of his legion and got most of them killed.

I don't know the exact order of who disappeared when but if he hadn't stepped in the IOM would have likely broken into a bunch of tiny empires vulnerable to larger powers.

You do realise that people other than Primarchs and other superhumans do exist in the setting? It is understandable if you forgot, GW seems to do so too.

 Crimson wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
While not personally a big Ultra Marine fan, I never got the hate for Bobby G picking up the pieces after the Heresy.

Who else would have done it, The emperor was crippled, Malcador was dead and the only other primarch that had shown any real though for logistics and politics ran off with most of his legion and got most of them killed.

I don't know the exact order of who disappeared when but if he hadn't stepped in the IOM would have likely broken into a bunch of tiny empires vulnerable to larger powers.

You do realise that people other than Primarchs and other superhumans do exist in the setting? It is understandable if you forgot, GW seems to do so too.

Of the remain post Heresy, who would you have picked to put the pieces back together. In no particular order of the loyalist

Sang- Dead
Russ- His legion was shattered, he was badly wounded and while a great warrior had not sense for politics or governing.
Vulkan- Missing (we still don't have the full story on this to be fair)
Bobby G- The one who took up the mantle
The Lion- It's my understanding he was the first one to disappear after the HH dealing with his own mini rebellion so he's out
The Khan- A loner who doesn't exactly scream successor to the throne
Ferrus- Dead
Dorn- The only other Primarch that might be able to do what Bobby G did and pass reforms to make things work post HH, instead he ran off due to guilt and got most of his legion slaughtered in a trap.

Forgot about Corax but he was dealing with so much guilt and shame, he wouldn't have exactly been in the best head space to lead an empire.

Dorn in fact, it is strongly implied was wracked by survivor's guilt. so he wouldn't have been in the head space to do it. as for regular humans...

who would have taken it up? Had he survived Malcador would have been the obvious choiuce, but Malcador was also dead. And it needed to be a person who was, at the least, perceived as part of the Emperor's Inner Circle. no Gulliman was the logical choice.

BrianDavion wrote:
Dorn in fact, it is strongly implied was wracked by survivor's guilt. so he wouldn't have been in the head space to do it. as for regular humans...

who would have taken it up? Had he survived Malcador would have been the obvious choiuce, but Malcador was also dead. And it needed to be a person who was, at the least, perceived as part of the Emperor's Inner Circle. no Gulliman was the logical choice.

I think it's plausible to make the argument that losing malcador was worse than the Emperor being crippled. Both are very big blows but the HH makes it clear that pretty much all the day to day institutions that help make the current imperium "work" were set up by Malcador and he was a peerless administrator.

BrianDavion wrote:
Dorn in fact, it is strongly implied was wracked by survivor's guilt. so he wouldn't have been in the head space to do it. as for regular humans...

who would have taken it up? Had he survived Malcador would have been the obvious choiuce, but Malcador was also dead. And it needed to be a person who was, at the least, perceived as part of the Emperor's Inner Circle. no Gulliman was the logical choice.

Didn't the Emperor set up a group of humans for exactly the job of ruling the Imperium?