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I may not be as experienced as most people here but imo i see not much choice then orbed Dlord with scythe and wrights (lest say 5-6 for funny number of rending attacks) with coils to prevent them from attacking U first. " Preferred enemy-everything! " from Ur Dlord will make whole unit to re-roll to hit and to wound all rolls of 1, warscythe takes out all possible armor save so all what will left for them is that FNP and wrights have 3++ and by coils, they and lord attack first anytime.....i think that may be a good counter for their combo
Ofc shooting here is more then important to weak them or strip from troops they join. Hdestroyers could be helpfull as well i think

bradleyo wrote:
How would I defeat a Mephiston and Brother Corbulo combo? Mephiston with toughness 6 and has a 2+ armor save, and wounds that ignore his armor he just passes off to Corbulo who has a 2+ FNP.

This question could be better asked in the BA-thread, as they know the rules better concerning those two Characters.

But you have one option: Point out that Mephiston isn't an IC and that "Look Out, Sir!" can only be done by models in the same unit.

Second thing: Corbulo cannot use his FnP against stuff with Str8 or higher.
Luckily we have enough things that ID-him ánd ignore his armour.

Just look through the codex and find weapons with AP3 or better and STR8 or higher

You sure you were using that Death & Despair squad properly?
T6 and 2+ armor should mean nothing to AP1 flamer that wounds on a 2+. (the feel no pain would be different, though).

Alternatively, you could use a Tesseract Labyrinth?

The wraiths are a great idea.
He claims that the abyssal staff is str 8 leadership so not double toughness.

The tesseract labyrinth is a great idea, however as SP initiative is so much higher than mine, I'd be afraid of wasting the points?

Is that a worthwhile investment?

bradleyo wrote:
The wraiths are a great idea.
He claims that the abyssal staff is str 8 leadership so not double toughness.

The tesseract labyrinth is a great idea, however as SP initiative is so much higher than mine, I'd be afraid of wasting the points?

Is that a worthwhile investment?

Mindshackle Scarabs are a similar gamble to Tesseract Labyrinths while remaining cheaper. You can also use MSS more than once.

By fielding a DLord and a retinue of Wraiths, you should be able to deal with Mephiston and Corbulo. Charge them and challenge Mephiston, and he'll have a chance of IDing himself.

If you also run Zahndrekh in your army, you could give them Furious Charge as well. This would let your DLord resolve his attacks at S8, preventing Corbulo from using FNP should you choose to single him out instead.

bradleyo wrote:
Hello Guys,
I'm hoping for a bit of help.

I made a mistake and deep struck my deathstar to close to my opponents Blood Angles Troops (and I only realized too late, HQ).

However once the assault begun (and finished) in 1 turn. (Damn you sweeping advances) I realized I might be screwed as Mephiston and Brother Corbulo continued across the board towards my main forces.

How would I defeat a Mephiston and Brother Corbulo combo? Mephiston with toughness 6 and has a 2+ armor save, and wounds that ignore his armor he just passes off to Corbulo who has a 2+ FNP.

I had 2 squads of Deathmarks (13 deathmarks total) (and a veil-tek) fire into him (he was marked), an annihilation barge, 4 destruct-teks and a night scythe fire everything they could into him, and between the two of them he only suffered 1 wound! (leaving Mephiston with 4 wounds and Corbulo with his two)

How could I beat that combo, just more shooting?

Any insight would be appreciated

How was he 'passing wounds off' to Corbulo? The only way I can see is Look Out, Sir!, but since Mephiston isn't an IC, he cannot join Corbulo, and since he is also a unit that only ever consists of a single model, Corbulo cannot join him. If that's how he's been 'passing off wounds' then he's been cheating. I also don't know how 4 Lanceteks couldn't at least kill Corbulo, since he's only T4 and FNP can't be taken against wounds that cause instant death, so one lance wound on him would pop him. Mephiston could take lance hits himself, since they wouldn't ID him and he'd have the FNP from Corbulo being within 6", but even then, he should've gone down pretty quickly.

bradleyo wrote:
Hello Guys,
I'm hoping for a bit of help.

I made a mistake and deep struck my deathstar to close to my opponents Blood Angles Troops (and I only realized too late, HQ).

However once the assault begun (and finished) in 1 turn. (Damn you sweeping advances) I realized I might be screwed as Mephiston and Brother Corbulo continued across the board towards my main forces.

How would I defeat a Mephiston and Brother Corbulo combo? Mephiston with toughness 6 and has a 2+ armor save, and wounds that ignore his armor he just passes off to Corbulo who has a 2+ FNP.

I had 2 squads of Deathmarks (13 deathmarks total) (and a veil-tek) fire into him (he was marked), an annihilation barge, 4 destruct-teks and a night scythe fire everything they could into him, and between the two of them he only suffered 1 wound! (leaving Mephiston with 4 wounds and Corbulo with his two)

How could I beat that combo, just more shooting?

Any insight would be appreciated

A Destroyer Lord, with a Warsycthe. MSS, and a Semp Weave is generally all you need to take out Mephi. What was in your "deathstar" that got taken out early from the DS?

In my deathstar (this is embarrassing so please don't be too harsh.

I had 20 warriors, a DS with MSS and Septernial weave, and Vanguard Oberon.

He assaulted with 1 last model from a devastator squad. (which I just killed) to Take all the overwatch.. Due to poor rolls and FNP he survived.
Then He assaulted with 5 assault marines (which I figured we could take)
I missed the HR (Mephiston and Brother C.)

The assault marines and I stalemated. Mephiston and Brother C killed 5. ( He did a look out sir on my Warsythe hits against Mephiston, so Brother C used his FNP)
I lost combat so I had roll a 5 or less (which seems stupid since I had 2 ID and 15 warriors left)
I rolled an 8 (or something) so he killed me all in sweeping advance.
(Mephiston has initiative 7 and rolled a 5 on the initiative test, So i didn't bother)

I didn't challenge because my opponent is adamant that units in a challenge don't leave the sqaud, so anyone in base combat (not just the challenger) can take the MSS.
Needless to say MSS didn't affect Mephiston.

That's not a deathstar, that's just a regular Necron squad with a Lord and Obyron.

A deathstar is a very expensive, but effective unit, mostly in cc. Your entire squad had two cc units and thus was doomed to fail to begin with.

A proper Necron deathstar would be e.g. 5 Lords, Obyron, Staff of Light Cryptek - as this squads is very strong in cc. 20 Warriors aren't.

Good to know. Clearly I got my terminology wrong.

In any case they we not supposed to be in cc!

he cheated that simple, but mephiston is not a challenge anymore for overlords if you roll thos 2+; still watch out for the ID, same goes for him shackle and with some luck he kills himself with his own forceweapon
...

whats your guys thoughts on a D-lord w/ RO, MSS, SW joining with a troop of teslaimmortals and a veiltek.

I usually run teslaimmorals + veiltek and MSS RO lord and also D-lord with wraiths and have had good success, I was just curious if the Prefered enemy would be worth the d-lord leaving the wraiths to join the immortals. any 1s that are rerolled to a 6 is a beautiful thing.

Thoughts?

Destroyer Lords + Wraiths is an extremely strong deathstar.

I'm not sure as far as mathhammering goes, but in my experience, D.Lord-Wraith-star works better than the D.Lord + shooters (if you really want to make Immortals shine, you include a Stalker in the army. That way you can reroll more than just 1s).

If you REALLY want to abuse the Preferred Enemy rule, figure out what happens when you attach a D.Lord to a Death & Despair squad...

 keltikhoa wrote:
whats your guys thoughts on a D-lord w/ RO, MSS, SW joining with a troop of teslaimmortals and a veiltek.

I usually run teslaimmorals + veiltek and MSS RO lord and also D-lord with wraiths and have had good success, I was just curious if the Prefered enemy would be worth the d-lord leaving the wraiths to join the immortals. any 1s that are rerolled to a 6 is a beautiful thing.

Thoughts?

DLord is a pretty good addition to just about any unit, as the Preferred Enemy and potential Res Orb are a good buff for just about anything.

 skoffs wrote:

If you REALLY want to abuse the Preferred Enemy rule, figure out what happens when you attach a D.Lord to a Death & Despair squad...

OMG I love it, its the greatest Idea!

I don't know about "greatest idea", but it's definitely one of the most ridiculous overkill combos Necrons are capable of.

 skoffs wrote:
I don't know about "greatest idea", but it's definitely one of the most ridiculous overkill combos Necrons are capable of.

against a single enemy unit, anyway

Hmmmm....

HQ
Trazyn
Dlord Mss/Sw/Ro
Despairtek

ELITE
Deathmarks x 10
Deathmarks x 5
Deathmarks x 5

Clocks in around 775 (and still needs some NS or Veils), but man, at the very least three targets are going to get waxed .

OK, so here we go I recently had all of my troops run off the board in a game because of failed moral checks loosing a game in the top of turn 2. I know it was unwise to put all of my troops that close to the board edge but I figured hey they have Ld 10 right? Anyway does anyone have a favored number of models that they like to bring in a troop of warriors? I was running a squad of 20 warriors and oberon 6 dropped to the ground and I failed moral causing me to fall back 10 inches and lossing all 6 of those warriors in the same turn my two squads of 10 immortals containing a cryptek and zandrek respectively lost 4 and 3 immortals causing a moral check for each zandrek ran off the board and the crypteks squad passed leaving him and 6 immortals behind. At this point the game was over because he had lost literally nothing at this point and I was already down to about 45% of my forces.

Doing a little math it seems to me that the numbers just after a multiple of 4 are the best to bring as a total squad size ex: 5 9 13 17 and 22 this will allow you to get the most out of your moral. More have to be destroyed before you have to take moral and more are left before you are under 25% and you can't regroup. Still, what are the communities opinion about squad size? Am I just over reacting because of horrible luck?

Next, the Death and Despair squad... How do y'all take this squad? just minimum possible? 5 deathmarks and a HoD flying in a night scythe? or ten deathmarks with 5 HoD in a night scythe? Anyone taking Veil and attempt to deep strike the unit all over? whats up?

Thanks for any responses,
Love,
Rothrich xoxo

I'm too lazy and new to do the squadsize-math.

But to the other question:
People usually take 5 DM's and a HoD.
Why? Because that's enough for the job.
Why not 5 HoD? Because you can only attach ONE Royal Court member to the squad of Death Marks.

Their job is to be as cheap as possible and to wipe out as many points as possible.
Remember that it's only 125 points and it can easily kill a squad of terminators which are 200 points.
The group of DM's is basically sacrificed, so there is no use in putting more points in it.

^
THANK YOU.
I'm constantly surprised how many people have yet to figure this out.
(new kids sticking OrbLords and such into the D&D squads to try to increase their durability. "but what if they get charged?" Well then they overwatch the idiots assaulting them, then lay some smack down in hand-to-hand, with all blows struck wounding on 2+ as well)

HHAHA I forgot about 1 cour member per unit still you could take 2 in the unit....

so.. the best D&D unit is just the min maybe take 2 of em and a stalker to make em particularly Gangsta!

 skoffs wrote:
^
THANK YOU.
I'm constantly surprised how many people have yet to figure this out.
(new kids sticking OrbLords and such into the D&D squads to try to increase their durability. "but what if they get charged?" Well then they overwatch the idiots assaulting them, then lay some smack down in hand-to-hand, with all blows struck wounding on 2+ as well)

I don't think tweaking with them on the other end of the spectrum is a completely worthless endeavor. Maxed squads with a Res Lord or Trazyn have some intriguing possibilities of their own, they just play a different role then the MSU 5 Death + Despair, plop down, unload, then die unit does. Deathmarks with a Res Orb are pretty resilient unit, that can unload a heavy amount or precision shots that can neuter squads of their firepower, and with some one like Trazyn they also score and can follow that up with an Assault to finish off effectively neutered squads.

20 Shots will net you 3+ precision, with a decent chance to compound that precision with some rending. Knock out any characters with those shots, and then they are taking a pinning test -1. Follow that up with an assault and I think you might be impressed with the kind of damage a unit like that could do.

Even with no luck from precision 20 BS 4 sniper shots will kill 3 or 4 MEq. The unit will attract it's fair share of attention and then you sit back on that 3+/4+RP and make them make every bullet count.

rothrich wrote:
the best D&D unit is just the min maybe take 2 of em and a stalker to make em particularly Gangsta!

First off, your comments are a little hard to read if you don't bother with grammar and punctuation.
Second, if you're using your Stalker to assist a D&D squad (whose main weapon is an auto-hit flame template that has little need of twin linking assistance) instead of, say, Tesla Immortals/Doomsday Arks/Destruc-teks/etc... you're kind of doing it wrong.

Dang skoffs... That is kind of snarky and rude. Why not rephrase it to say something like, "You don't need a stalker to assist a D&D squad. Then you mention Tesla Immortals/Doomsday Arks/ Desturc-teks/ect... For what? How do you use them to in conjunction with a D&D squad? I made a post in hopes of getting help not to have some guy be an internet smart Alec to me... But if you want to be like that it is fine I guess.

rothrich wrote:
Dang skoffs... That is kind of snarky and rude. Why not rephrase it to say something like, "You don't need a stalker to assist a D&D squad. Then you mention Tesla Immortals/Doomsday Arks/ Desturc-teks/ect... For what? How do you use them to in conjunction with a D&D squad? I made a post in hopes of getting help not to have some guy be an internet smart Alec to me... But if you want to be like that it is fine I guess.

You missed his point... albeit snarky - he was right.

Stalker won't help the flamer hit - which is the main portion of the DnD squad - though it will still help the Deathmarks. It's better to use it to give Immortals or somebody else Twin Linking - DnD squads don't net nearly as much gain from doing that.

Oh I got his point, I just wish he did not feel the need to be a jerk about it. And thank you for clarifying. The stalker would be much better used with Tesla Immortals, doomsday arks, and destro-teks. Thank you. Seeing as I have two doomsday arks I can see how great that can be.

Yeah, that would allow you to reroll the scatter if you choose, aye? Any situation where you want your powerful shot to blast through them is a good time for it. That said, the Triarch Stalker doesn't seem too impressive otherwise.

Silly question I'll ask here instead of YMTC

Scarabs take double wounds from template weapons via the Swarms rule - do small blasts and large blasts count as template weapons? Or just flamers?

You consider "if you do A instead of B, you're doing it wrong" being rude?
Man, I hate to think what your reaction would have been if I was ACTUALLY trying to be rude!
(though, I do find it amusing that it took someone else clarifying it for you in simpler terms before you got it)


And yes, Budikah, Scarabs take double damage from all template weapons, not just the flamer.
Normally the best way to mitigate that is to have enough Spyders working to create extra Scarabs, as well as spreading said Scarabs out enough that only a few of them land under the template.
... though, you don't see many Scarab Farms around much anymore (it's not like Necrons have a shortage of ways to deal with vehicles, after all)