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Interesting list-building concept that I've been tossing around in my head:
We know that we can't grab Mephrit relics without an obscene non-obsec troop tax, but we do have Orikan who can do something similar (and for a unit, not just a model).
So, with that in mind, I present the core of my Wraithstar build:
Destroyer Lord w/Nightmare Shroud, warscythe, phase shifter, res orb
Orikan the Diviner
Canoptek Harvest w/6 wraiths (of course)
So this slows down the unit a bit, but they will be absolutely unkillable until the Spyder dies (at which point they can speed up/should be in combat anyhow). It struggles a bit having Orikan in the unit, but that will allow the Spyder to keep pace and the unit can stretch out. This makes for the D Lord having a re-rollable 2+, as well as 4+ RP. The wraiths also have 4+ RP and a 3++ re-rolling 1's, which is about 5% worse than a 2++.
I'm also toying around with saying screw the harvest formation, but I feel like if you're goig to have Orikan in the unit, it just benefits so much to have the Spyder tag along right behind him.
That's a really expensive unit that hinges on you keeping that Spyder alive otherwise you've just got a footslogging unit basically.
Sure it's impossible to kill probably if the Spyder stays alive but I dunno why you'd keep taking it.
I think that Scarab Farm is alive and well , more so than people think...
Here's why:
The Canoptek Harvest allows you to go above the amount of FOC that is required so you can now have a Scarab farm list and Wraith lists avoiding the Fast Attack slots all together and dedicating them to stuff like Tomb Blades.
Great now you can just Congo Line 2 Squads of 5+ + RP Scarabs down the battle field.
Normally you couldn't really do Scarab Farm and Canoptek Wraith lists because they both took up valuable FOC of Fast Attack.
Now it's possible to do both.
Scarabs now though have the ability to hurt Super Heavies which is great plus the Scarab farm is now putting out more point values and making them 5++
With the Addition of just 1 Squad of Spyders you can put out 6 Scarab units a turn.
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
luke1705 wrote: Interesting list-building concept that I've been tossing around in my head:
We know that we can't grab Mephrit relics without an obscene non-obsec troop tax, but we do have Orikan who can do something similar (and for a unit, not just a model).
So, with that in mind, I present the core of my Wraithstar build:
Destroyer Lord w/Nightmare Shroud, warscythe, phase shifter, res orb
Orikan the Diviner
Canoptek Harvest w/6 wraiths (of course)
So this slows down the unit a bit, but they will be absolutely unkillable until the Spyder dies (at which point they can speed up/should be in combat anyhow). It struggles a bit having Orikan in the unit, but that will allow the Spyder to keep pace and the unit can stretch out. This makes for the D Lord having a re-rollable 2+, as well as 4+ RP. The wraiths also have 4+ RP and a 3++ re-rolling 1's, which is about 5% worse than a 2++.
I'm also toying around with saying screw the harvest formation, but I feel like if you're goig to have Orikan in the unit, it just benefits so much to have the Spyder tag along right behind him.
This formation could be viable in a non-Decursion.
However, I'd take 10 to 12 Wraiths in the army.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
luke1705 wrote: Interesting list-building concept that I've been tossing around in my head:
We know that we can't grab Mephrit relics without an obscene non-obsec troop tax, but we do have Orikan who can do something similar (and for a unit, not just a model).
So, with that in mind, I present the core of my Wraithstar build:
Destroyer Lord w/Nightmare Shroud, warscythe, phase shifter, res orb
Orikan the Diviner
Canoptek Harvest w/6 wraiths (of course)
So this slows down the unit a bit, but they will be absolutely unkillable until the Spyder dies (at which point they can speed up/should be in combat anyhow). It struggles a bit having Orikan in the unit, but that will allow the Spyder to keep pace and the unit can stretch out. This makes for the D Lord having a re-rollable 2+, as well as 4+ RP. The wraiths also have 4+ RP and a 3++ re-rolling 1's, which is about 5% worse than a 2++.
I'm also toying around with saying screw the harvest formation, but I feel like if you're goig to have Orikan in the unit, it just benefits so much to have the Spyder tag along right behind him.
This formation could be viable in a non-Decursion.
However, I'd take 10 to 12 Wraiths in the army.
Oh definitely wouldn't be a Decurion. And I thought more wraiths were a given
luke1705 wrote: Interesting list-building concept that I've been tossing around in my head:
We know that we can't grab Mephrit relics without an obscene non-obsec troop tax, but we do have Orikan who can do something similar (and for a unit, not just a model).
So, with that in mind, I present the core of my Wraithstar build:
Destroyer Lord w/Nightmare Shroud, warscythe, phase shifter, res orb
Orikan the Diviner
Canoptek Harvest w/6 wraiths (of course)
So this slows down the unit a bit, but they will be absolutely unkillable until the Spyder dies (at which point they can speed up/should be in combat anyhow). It struggles a bit having Orikan in the unit, but that will allow the Spyder to keep pace and the unit can stretch out. This makes for the D Lord having a re-rollable 2+, as well as 4+ RP. The wraiths also have 4+ RP and a 3++ re-rolling 1's, which is about 5% worse than a 2++.
I'm also toying around with saying screw the harvest formation, but I feel like if you're goig to have Orikan in the unit, it just benefits so much to have the Spyder tag along right behind him.
This formation could be viable in a non-Decursion.
However, I'd take 10 to 12 Wraiths in the army.
Oh definitely wouldn't be a Decurion. And I thought more wraiths were a given
The DLord seems not to be mandatory here, since he will eventually lag behind.
His role tanking wounds as frontliner is gone.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
luke1705 wrote: Interesting list-building concept that I've been tossing around in my head:
We know that we can't grab Mephrit relics without an obscene non-obsec troop tax, but we do have Orikan who can do something similar (and for a unit, not just a model).
So, with that in mind, I present the core of my Wraithstar build:
Destroyer Lord w/Nightmare Shroud, warscythe, phase shifter, res orb
Orikan the Diviner
Canoptek Harvest w/6 wraiths (of course)
So this slows down the unit a bit, but they will be absolutely unkillable until the Spyder dies (at which point they can speed up/should be in combat anyhow). It struggles a bit having Orikan in the unit, but that will allow the Spyder to keep pace and the unit can stretch out. This makes for the D Lord having a re-rollable 2+, as well as 4+ RP. The wraiths also have 4+ RP and a 3++ re-rolling 1's, which is about 5% worse than a 2++.
I'm also toying around with saying screw the harvest formation, but I feel like if you're goig to have Orikan in the unit, it just benefits so much to have the Spyder tag along right behind him.
This formation could be viable in a non-Decursion.
However, I'd take 10 to 12 Wraiths in the army.
Oh definitely wouldn't be a Decurion. And I thought more wraiths were a given
The DLord seems not to be mandatory here, since he will eventually lag behind.
His role tanking wounds as frontliner is gone.
Actually, it's not as bad as you think. Wraiths move an extra 6", but the Lord jumps 2d6 in the assault phase. On average, that's 7 inches. If you have him tanking to start the turn, and move the wraiths say, 11 inches instead of 12, then you would still be tanking from most angles on a 2d6 roll of 5+. And if you roll higher, then that can compensate for a later turn when you might not roll quite as well. That's to say nothing of how quickly that unit is likely to get into assault. Furthermore, he will tank shots during enemy shooting but not have wounds allocated directly to him during assault because he is no longer at the front of the unit (all without appreciably increasing charge distance). I mean, you lose fleet, and also lose the wraithflight terrain bonus (even if the lord doesn't directly touch terrain IIRC) but for that kind of tank, plus PE and a round of RP re-roll, you're really looking pretty good.
And I mean, I'll be honest. I just want Orikan to go Super Saiyan and have it be worthwhile haha.
Gork and Mork wrote: Is there any way to reliably kill Orikan attatched to lychguard with shields? He is so broken imo
Grab someone with a 2+ armor save. They have to sacrifice the warscythe for the shield. They are still AP 3 but no scythe :( if they had the scythe, THAT would be broken.
Gork and Mork wrote: Is there any way to reliably kill Orikan attatched to lychguard with shields? He is so broken imo
Grab someone with a 2+ armor save. They have to sacrifice the warscythe for the shield. They are still AP 3 but no scythe :( if they had the scythe, THAT would be broken.
Orikan has AP2.
He punched three hull points off a Knight before dying when I fielded him yesterday. 4++ rerolling ones 4+++ is really good.
(Irrelevant side note: I really should have turned that game down when a guy tried to field a Knight and a Gravcentstar in a 1000 point casual game, but frankly I was curious to see the superheavy in action.)
Where is Orikan the Empowered Profile at in the book? I'm using an E-Book. Also, hilariously I don't think Orikan's ability of rerolling saving throws of a 1 works on the Reanimation Protocols, just normal armour saves.
ugh, what is the formulae for percentage chance addition, I always forget it. It's not a straight addition.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/02/08 19:39:34
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
Gork and Mork wrote: Is there any way to reliably kill Orikan attatched to lychguard with shields? He is so broken imo
Grab someone with a 2+ armor save. They have to sacrifice the warscythe for the shield. They are still AP 3 but no scythe :( if they had the scythe, THAT would be broken.
Orikan has AP2.
He punched three hull points off a Knight before dying when I fielded him yesterday. 4++ rerolling ones 4+++ is really good.
(Irrelevant side note: I really should have turned that game down when a guy tried to field a Knight and a Gravcentstar in a 1000 point casual game, but frankly I was curious to see the superheavy in action.)
My bad I was thinking of the generic cryptek staff. That's pretty impressive though. Reminds me of the old Necron Lords. My buddy had one stand toe to toe with a creature that effectively had the profile of Ang'grath in an apoc game (kitted out to the max naturally). He just would not die. Ah good times.
So am I right in thinking that we seem to be gravitating away from the Decurion and saying "grab a cryptek of some kind" for the unit that we really want to have stupid durability? Aside from the wraith formation, that can all be achieved with a regular CAD. So unless you're like me and trying to get 18 RP wraiths with some sort of obsec under the 2 source format, it seems to be a solid way to go.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hollismason wrote: Where is Orikan the Empowered Profile at in the book? I'm using an E-Book. Also, hilariously I don't think Orikan's ability of rerolling saving throws of a 1 works on the Reanimation Protocols, just normal armour saves.
I have the hard copy and it's just directly underneath his first statline, in the same box.
And that's absolutely correct, it doesn't work on RP because they are explicitly not a "save". However, this means that we can still take them against things that allow "no saves of any kind" and save 75% of those wounds if we decide to pop a res orb for that unit. Kind of silly, really. I'll take that tradeoff all day long
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/08 19:40:06
Hollismason wrote: There's no reason not to take the Decurion under certain circumstances.
If for example you were like " Gonna play with a gakload of troops and tombblades"
Take the Decurion.
Honestly I'm not so sure. Maybe unkillable wraiths and flayed ones solve your problems, in addition to the above units. But I do wonder if armies like that fall under the "table or lose" mentality due to the lack of Obsec
I don't think so because you can make very beefy CC oriented and shooty Decurion Detachments easily that don't require you to take like 3 Squads of Wraiths. I think the strength now isn't in spamming units but just overwhelming your opponent with to many threats. 2 Squads of Praetorians, 2 Squads of Flayed Ones, etc.. are all good units. That all have 4+ invulnerable basically.
Decurions a serious contender, if people would just get away from the " I have to take 24 Goddamn Wraiths or my army is not Competitive" mindset.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/08 19:57:32
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
There certainly is a good amount of synergy between a lot of units and not many bad choices. Personally I like wraiths, but I think they will be a complementary (read: single) unit in a competitive list. Maybe 2 max but 3 is too unbalanced for an army that already lacks AA.
Then again, who knows? Maybe Wraithstar will be a thing with Orikan. I'll be trying it out regardless of how good it is
Hollismason wrote: I don't think so because you can make very beefy CC oriented and shooty Decurion Detachments easily that don't require you to take like 3 Squads of Wraiths. I think the strength now isn't in spamming units but just overwhelming your opponent with to many threats. 2 Squads of Praetorians, 2 Squads of Flayed Ones, etc.. are all good units. That all have 4+ invulnerable basically.
Decurions a serious contender, if people would just get away from the " I have to take 24 Goddamn Wraiths or my army is not Competitive" mindset.
I can't wait till they come out with plastic Flayed Ones. 20 of them with a D-lord with a Solar Staff DSing behind you. SURPRISE.
Hollismason wrote: You can just start them in a Ghost Ark if you want to use the FOC , Fast Attack purchase.
Just go with a CAD and a Royal court Formation.
I don't mind keeping a unit of 10 warriors on foot in the back.
Plus if you throw a veil of darkness in there you can decide to use that to get that deathstar royal court where you want.
The big benefit of running Lords over Lychguard is exactly the GA assault plan. Plus, the GoF you can throw on the Lords and Overlords has serious coolness.
Anyway, this star looks to be the most optimal the codex has to offer. Critiques? Suggestions?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/08 20:44:23
The advantage is - Orikan + Nightmare Shroud Overlord means you basically ignore all non-AP2 attacks. It's like the old Baron-Star.
The (huge) disadvantage is that (unlike old Baron), we fall back on a 4++/4+RP against AP2 hits. Which is decent, we save about four in five of them, but that starts to add up, and opens the door to bad-luck streaks.
Humourously, an Overlord with Phase Shifter (and Hypherphase sword or Voidblade) is a decent addition - 35 points per wound with a 4++ makes him worse than a Shield Lychguard, but gets him into the Ark.
Orikan, 2 Lords with WS, 1 Overlord WS, PS, NS, 1 overlord Hyperphase, PS all inside a Ghost Ark will run you 630 points.
It's impressively resilient, but only puts out 12 attacks / 17 on the charge.
Destroyer Lord w/Nightmare Shroud, phase shifter, warscythe, res orb - 215
Orikan the Diviner - 120
20 Flayed Ones - 260
Ok so that is 595. If you really want to cut some points you can take a normal cryptek over Orikan, but Orikan brings so much to the table. A normal cryptek can give a 5++ in shooting to the Flayed Ones, but I'd rather have more high strength AP2 so that the Lord doesn't have to do quite so much work. These guys are a little slow but you have wraiths to catch things. They can infiltrate and with 4+/4++, they don't care much about cover, and the Lord is a tankmaster. Re-rollable 2+, then a re-rollable 4+ (if you pop the orb, which also confers those re-rolls to the Flayed Ones and Orikan). I mean, when you pop that orb, your opponent can basically just stop rolling the dice against them for that phase.
luke1705 wrote: Destroyer Lord w/Nightmare Shroud, phase shifter, warscythe, res orb - 215
Orikan the Diviner - 120
20 Flayed Ones - 260
Ok so that is 595. If you really want to cut some points you can take a normal cryptek over Orikan, but Orikan brings so much to the table. A normal cryptek can give a 5++ in shooting to the Flayed Ones, but I'd rather have more high strength AP2 so that the Lord doesn't have to do quite so much work. These guys are a little slow but you have wraiths to catch things. They can infiltrate and with 4+/4++, they don't care much about cover, and the Lord is a tankmaster. Re-rollable 2+, then a re-rollable 4+ (if you pop the orb, which also confers those re-rolls to the Flayed Ones and Orikan). I mean, when you pop that orb, your opponent can basically just stop rolling the dice against them for that phase.
What if you took out the phase shifter and res orb then added in another crpytek with the VoD and the blind staff? That way you can keep the unit in reserves and have more chance that Orikan goes super saiyan before entering the game?
Basically immune to shooting the turn you DS in and laugh at anyone who want's to charge you!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/08 23:56:34
Yeah that's a nice beat stick there. Although you could shave off some points by just taking 15 Flayed Ones, that's 75 attacks on the charge. That have Preferred Enemy. You could of course just go crazy and make something like
Destroyer Lord, Res Orb, Warscythe, Phase Shifter
Destroyer Lord, Super Orb, Warscythe, Phase Shifter
20 Flayed Ones
20 Flayed Ones
Troops
5 Immortals in a Nighscythe
5 Immortals in a Nightscythe
Fast Attack
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
And that would just be your whole army.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/09 00:06:34
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
Well, I mean, it's not like anyone is realistically going to chew through that unit to get to Orikan before he goes super saiyan. The res orb drastically increases durability (literally by 50 percent for a single phase) and the phase shifter is so that the D Lord can maul whatever he wants. Without it, he's relying only on a 4++ vs AP 2. Not my kind of odds
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hollismason wrote: Yeah that's a nice beat stick there. Although you could shave off some points by just taking 15 Flayed Ones, that's 75 attacks on the charge. That have Preferred Enemy. I think that's enough honestly.
You can NEVER have too many attacks
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/08 23:59:22
caelim wrote: The advantage is - Orikan + Nightmare Shroud Overlord means you basically ignore all non-AP2 attacks. It's like the old Baron-Star.
The (huge) disadvantage is that (unlike old Baron), we fall back on a 4++/4+RP against AP2 hits. Which is decent, we save about four in five of them, but that starts to add up, and opens the door to bad-luck streaks.
Humourously, an Overlord with Phase Shifter (and Hypherphase sword or Voidblade) is a decent addition - 35 points per wound with a 4++ makes him worse than a Shield Lychguard, but gets him into the Ark.
Orikan, 2 Lords with WS, 1 Overlord WS, PS, NS, 1 overlord Hyperphase, PS all inside a Ghost Ark will run you 630 points.
It's impressively resilient, but only puts out 12 attacks / 17 on the charge.
Don't forget the flamers. Part of the secret sauce of this deathstar is the cheap GoF spam. Spewing flame out of an open-topped GA is sick!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/09 00:10:08
The lack of resiliency is also why I think that wraithstar with Orikan & tanking D Lord will be a thing (perhaps with the Canoptek formation, perhaps not). Especially since whip coil wraiths will be 2 points less than a brick of 20 FOs and they can hurt more things. What they lack in VOF resiliency due to lack of bodies, they make up for with an effective 2++ (plus the same re-rollable RP if you go that route)
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
