Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If you threw a primaris marine and a custodian into a pit and they had to fight each other with no armor, no weapons, only fists, who would come out on top?

 Psionara wrote:
If you threw a primaris marine and a custodian into a pit and they had to fight each other with no armor, no weapons, only fists, who would come out on top?

Custodes.

While marines. Even primais are powerful. They are mass produced.

Custodes are one offs, custom made, probably a similar height and size or taller but there the rolls Royce Vs the mass produced mercedes.

Even a "basic" custodes is extremely trained to a higher level, better augmented and they are the finest warriors the impirum can make. Marines are chosen at teanage ISH ages . Custodes treatment, augmentation far I'm aware starts at the infant stage.

It probably wouldn't be much of a fight. Custodes are experts at 1v1 combat and the like. They are on another tier than marines. Now, if a chapter fought against the equivalent number of custodes, then it would be a more interesting fight. Custodes are guards, they are not soldiers. They were not meant to wage wars. In a large scale conflict, a Space Marine chapter would probably have the edge...but, custodes are still better equipped, superior on the individual level, etc. vs the tactical acumen of marines, cohesiveness as a fighting force, etc.

I can only agree to what has been said already, a Custodian would utterly murderize a Primaris marine if you threw them in a pit.
Generally the Custodes are the best Warriors in terms of individual combat prowess the imperium has to offer (aside from special characters of course).

This does however not automatically mean that they are the best army in the imperium, far from it. Space marines are more flexible and can fill more battlefield roles and can therefore be a way better choice for many missions.
Also the soldiers of the imperial guard for example are of course way weaker individually than a custodian or a space marine, but the imperium would have fallen multiple times were it not for those brave men and women.....the superhuman factions of the imperium just get the spotlight more often.

A pit-fight between a Primaris vs a Custodian would have the same outcome as a Gaurdsman vs an Assault Marine. The difference is supposed to be that great.

-

The Custodes mopped the floor with the Thousand Suns during the attack on Prospero according to Inferno even when out numbered at least 8 to 1, so I wouldn't give the edge to astartew, even the primaris astartes unless they have a similar or greater numerical advantage.

I'm very much of the opinion that the primarchs were.to.he kept, the astartes disposed of at the end of.tue great crusade, and it would have been the Custodes who carried out that order. They were made to be something that could crush the likes of a space marine.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
The Custodes mopped the floor with the Thousand Suns during the attack on Prospero according to Inferno even when out numbered at least 8 to 1, so I wouldn't give the edge to astartew, even the primaris astartes unless they have a similar or greater numerical advantage.

I'm very much of the opinion that the primarchs were.to.he kept, the astartes disposed of at the end of.tue great crusade, and it would have been the Custodes who carried out that order. They were made to be something that could crush the likes of a space marine.

The custodes cleaned house on the thunder warriors. And in a a close fight they where more dangerous, bigger and more powerful than marines. The world eaters took some on jailed on a prison that rebelled. They lost something like 5-1 odds and these where past there prime, not peak thunder warriors.

The custodes where the one force the emparor truely cared about. He has the names of the one who fell in battle rescuing the legions carved into his own armour.

He used many, he never risked his elite guard unless at the very last resort. There gear alone is forged from a entirely different higher grade adamantium version, and is the finest built short of primarchs or emparor himself.

Only the emparor, and I think Dorn has armour made of this material. Not even the biggest inquisitor lords can get this stuff, you could be Inquisitor Lord Cortez and not even get a mere pendent forged from this metal.

Even the current custodes are still rocking gear that most chapter masters would be envious of.

Doesn't one of the Chapter Masters have a super special relic that's just a standard Custodes Spear?

pm713 wrote:
Doesn't one of the Chapter Masters have a super special relic that's just a standard Custodes Spear?

That would be the Deathwatch Watch Master (who isn't technically a Chapter Master, but that's a very different discussion).

Amusingly enough, it's not a relic, can be augmented via relics and WL traits to be hilariously better than a regular Guardian Spear, and he gets Bolter Discipline so he's shooting better than Custodians.

Sterling191 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Doesn't one of the Chapter Masters have a super special relic that's just a standard Custodes Spear?

That would be the Deathwatch Watch Master (who isn't technically a Chapter Master, but that's a very different discussion).

Amusingly enough, it's not a relic, can be augmented via relics and WL traits to be hilariously better than a regular Guardian Spear, and he gets Bolter Discipline so he's shooting better than Custodians.

I believe he is thinking about Asterion Moloc's Spear, which is said to have been a Custodian Spear.

Didn't Tagore, a World Eater, punch through and rip out Custodian Udar's spine?

 Psionara wrote:
Didn't Tagore, a World Eater, punch through and rip out Custodian Udar's spine?

Outcast Dead is kinda one of those examples where plot determines what happens rather than in-universe logic. It's similar to the Beast Arises novel Throneworld, where a group of Harlequins running around the Imperial Dungeon cut through Custodes in their dozens before being put down. Those are the weird exceptions, not the rule. At best I would argue that the Custodian sent to guard him was one of the inactive non-frontline Custodes that was relegated to guard duty.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Psionara wrote:
Didn't Tagore, a World Eater, punch through and rip out Custodian Udar's spine?

Outcast Dead is kinda one of those examples where plot determines what happens rather than in-universe logic. It's similar to the Beast Arises novel Throneworld, where a group of Harlequins running around the Imperial Dungeon cut through Custodes in their dozens before being put down. Those are the weird exceptions, not the rule. At best I would argue that the Custodian sent to guard him was one of the inactive non-frontline Custodes that was relegated to guard duty.

This example is one of the prime cases of idiotic writing in a BL book. I've said this many times, but if you as a writer completely ignore the in-universe rules that have been set up by the overarching lore of the setting, readers will stop suspending their disbelief and nothing you write carries any weight anymore. A world eater punching through power armor, any power armor for that matter, with his bare hands is utterly nonsensical.

There's a short passage in the Custodes codex where three Custodians are just mowing down space marines during the Siege of Terra. The passage could have swap Custodes for Astartes, and Astartes for traitor guards. Stepping away from the gravity of the battle, the individual fights didn't seem to phase the Custodians, their emotions appeared closer to "irritated" or inconvenianced than true anger or hate.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Psionara wrote:
Didn't Tagore, a World Eater, punch through and rip out Custodian Udar's spine?

Outcast Dead is kinda one of those examples where plot determines what happens rather than in-universe logic. It's similar to the Beast Arises novel Throneworld, where a group of Harlequins running around the Imperial Dungeon cut through Custodes in their dozens before being put down. Those are the weird exceptions, not the rule. At best I would argue that the Custodian sent to guard him was one of the inactive non-frontline Custodes that was relegated to guard duty.

Exception. Bad writing really.

At the battle of lions gate, the Grey knights powers are weakned by the sisters of silence but it takes multiple grey knights, who are pretty elite. To keep up with a custodian. The custodes are taking losses but there also taking down blood thirsters and such in sqaud level combat.

A small force of custodes and sisters, maybe 20 max also take on a word bearer heavy crusier and slay many chaos marines in the battle, eventually there overwhelmed and survivors are limited. They still capture the key area of ship, defend it, and prevent them to drop the final warp jammer to isolate terra.

Later in outcast dead.
One custodian takes on 2 veteran world eaters in CC simultaneously. He wins, killed but wins. At this point the world eater has managed to jury rig the custodians blade he captured earlier as a brutal one handed machete type weapon along with others they liberated on the way.

During the Hersey some sent to keep a eye on Logar and co take down several high ranking legionnaires before they can blink and kill multiple original posseses before going down. The originals where nastier than there modern itinerations and more dangerous.

Power level can vary, but there's solid proof they sit above a marine in skill and biological abailties.

At the highest level. Well custodes where second only to primarchs. Tribunes where extremely lethal, but Valador held a primarch to a abet sparring match but he held one. Very few can say to end a fight with a primarch and bring in a draw.

The primaris has an advantage of being used to fighting without proper melee weapons!