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So... I literally just finished assembling mine; nice that you can pretty much press-fit the heavy bolter & fist arm for swapping as you like.

But that gets me to my rules gripe. This is one of those "willing suspension of disbelief" issues: the heavy bolter going to pistol 3 is within 1" of an enemy. It doesn't make as much sense as the built in dread fist guns. The invictor has to grab the gun from the thigh, fire, holster, then punch, grab, or tear. Normal dread does not have to put the in-built guns in the same hand they are attacking with and would easily be able to grab and fire point-blank with their weapons.

Ok rant over.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
So... I literally just finished assembling mine; nice that you can pretty much press-fit the heavy bolter & fist arm for swapping as you like.

But that gets me to my rules gripe. This is one of those "willing suspension of disbelief" issues: the heavy bolter going to pistol 3 is within 1" of an enemy. It doesn't make as much sense as the built in dread fist guns. The invictor has to grab the gun from the thigh, fire, holster, then punch, grab, or tear. Normal dread does not have to put the in-built guns in the same hand they are attacking with and would easily be able to grab and fire point-blank with their weapons.

Ok rant over.

It'd be super fun if the Boxnaught could fire it's Heavy Flamer while in combat.

Well that's easy. The codex demands that a pistol can only be a sidearm that you grab from your waist. Thinking that you can fire with that gun that's ATTACHED to you? Obviously you're already too far tainted by Chaos. A more loyal Space Marine chapter has already been dispatched to cleanse your misdeeds from history.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
The invictor has to grab the gun from the thigh, fire, holster, then punch, grab, or tear.

The invictor has to grab the gun from the thigh, fire...then get to pistol whipping?

 Yarium wrote:
Well that's easy. The codex demands that a pistol can only be a sidearm that you grab from your waist. Thinking that you can fire with that gun that's ATTACHED to you? Obviously you're already too far tainted by Chaos. A more loyal Space Marine chapter has already been dispatched to cleanse your misdeeds from history.

And sometimes people wonder why we turned:

*Grumbles in Red Corsair.

While I like the model overall, it really has grown on me, the heavy bolter pistol is levels of stupid my brain just cannot comprehend so... it's like it doesn't even exist to me.

 MannyMcCoconut wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
The invictor has to grab the gun from the thigh, fire, holster, then punch, grab, or tear.

The invictor has to grab the gun from the thigh, fire...then get to pistol whipping?

Exactly what I thought! Its the basic premise behind the default CCW everyone has access to.

The heavy bolter is cc is just an add-on when the model gets into cc if it ever gets into cc.
But tactically, the model gives you some options Marines didn't have so far.

 oni wrote:
While I like the model overall, it really has grown on me, the heavy bolter pistol is levels of stupid my brain just cannot comprehend so... it's like it doesn't even exist to me.

Transformers level of stoopid, but this was the idea I think.
Gimicks, mad gimicks and more gimicks, that is the new 40K aesthetic.

 jeff white wrote:

 oni wrote:
While I like the model overall, it really has grown on me, the heavy bolter pistol is levels of stupid my brain just cannot comprehend so... it's like it doesn't even exist to me.

Transformers level of stoopid, but this was the idea I think.
Gimicks, mad gimicks and more gimicks, that is the new 40K aesthetic.

40k has ALWAYS had models with gimmicks.

Well, its an awesome model which helps to disrupt enemy plans.
My plan is to use three of them.

Its a world where your tank has a machine spirit you must appease or it may decide the engine coolant would be better served inside the pilot seat than the pipes, and they regularly bring knifes to a gun fight and win.

I'm cool with the heavy bolter pistol on the mech, it's silly in a 40k way to me.

Also yes, let flamers get the pistol keyword in combat, the buff we NEEEEED

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Its a world where your tank has a machine spirit you must appease or it may decide the engine coolant would be better served inside the pilot seat than the pipes, and they regularly bring knifes to a gun fight and win.

I'm cool with the heavy bolter pistol on the mech, it's silly in a 40k way to me.

Also yes, let flamers get the pistol keyword in combat, the buff we NEEEEED

Yeah, it's silly but so much of the setting is...

and besides, mechs holding guns in their hand is a loong serving tradtion in the mecha genre.




just for example.

But all of those have a shoting arm and a open fist to operate stuff at short range. the invictus has a hull mounted gun, and an open fist it holds the bolter. If it is ment to use the bolter at close range, then it probably would do more damage to just throw the damn thing at the opponents, the shot it. Would lighten to load too, as it wouldn't have to carry much ammo for the side weapon.

BrianDavion wrote:
and besides, mechs holding guns in their hand is a loong serving tradtion in the mecha genre.

It’s not the holding it in its hand that’s the issue. While slightly silly, that falls well within acceptable levels of silliness. It’s the fact that when it gets the rule to fire it like a pistol, it’s the time it’s going to use it’s power fist to rip things apart. If it didn’t have a ‘fist, I could get behind a little HB/pistol whip action. Or if the HB was its long range option, and was stowed for CC crumping time. But they gave the HB a special (unnecessary) rule that lets it be use in CC with the same hand that should be crushing skulls.

It’s Saturday morning cartoon levels of silliness.

 Nevelon wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
and besides, mechs holding guns in their hand is a loong serving tradtion in the mecha genre.

It’s not the holding it in its hand that’s the issue. While slightly silly, that falls well within acceptable levels of silliness. It’s the fact that when it gets the rule to fire it like a pistol, it’s the time it’s going to use it’s power fist to rip things apart. If it didn’t have a ‘fist, I could get behind a little HB/pistol whip action. Or if the HB was its long range option, and was stowed for CC crumping time. But they gave the HB a special (unnecessary) rule that lets it be use in CC with the same hand that should be crushing skulls.

It’s Saturday morning cartoon levels of silliness.

Maybe he does tricks like in Jacky Chan movies. throw gun at dude, it bounces of his face, grab it shot, throw it in the air. punch another dude, gra falling pistol, shot someone behing you not looking at them. A wu xia style dread.

 Nevelon wrote:


It’s Saturday morning cartoon levels of silliness.

So's a chain sword.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:


It’s Saturday morning cartoon levels of silliness.

So's a chain sword.

Chainswords are silly as all heck, indeed.

The model is terribly cartoonish and has cartoonish rules. 40k is a grimdark comedy

Chainswords are hilarious

 Stux wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:


It’s Saturday morning cartoon levels of silliness.

So's a chain sword.

Chainswords are silly as all heck, indeed.

exactly my point. silly and over the top is baked into the DNA of 40k.

 Nevelon wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
and besides, mechs holding guns in their hand is a loong serving tradtion in the mecha genre.

It’s not the holding it in its hand that’s the issue. While slightly silly, that falls well within acceptable levels of silliness. It’s the fact that when it gets the rule to fire it like a pistol, it’s the time it’s going to use it’s power fist to rip things apart. If it didn’t have a ‘fist, I could get behind a little HB/pistol whip action. Or if the HB was its long range option, and was stowed for CC crumping time. But they gave the HB a special (unnecessary) rule that lets it be use in CC with the same hand that should be crushing skulls.

It’s Saturday morning cartoon levels of silliness.

This is exactly my point.

I love the model, and the rules.

If it had 2 fists, or some other rules for melee options there would be no problem. The gripe that I have with it is that the great big heavy bolter, that the invictor has to store after firing to strike with the fist, gets to be a pistol; while all other dreads cannot use the weapons built into the fists as pistols.

It shouldn't be "easier" for one model to shoot - stow the gun - punch; than for all the other models to shoot - punch.

The Mecha that Briandavion showed....well:
1) Hatchet man from Battletech, has 2 hand actuators; art and rules in battletech rarely match up, that mech can use an improvised club and technically the hatchet is built into the arm not in the hand.
2) valkyrie veritech fighter in Soldat mode. The gun is a gun pod that gets placed under the fuselage in fighter mode. The hands a full hands and can use other giant weapons.
3) gundam custom. Other weapon that it would hold in that hand? An energy sword.

You know, it never occurred to me that the heavy bolter in pistol mode would be used in the same hand that's supposed to be thwacking people on the head. Can't unsee now.

What's so bad about charging into close combat, unholstering the heavy bolter pistol, shooting it, then reholstering it and then fisting bad guys? Makes me think the pilot of an Invictus War Suit is bad- !

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
You know, it never occurred to me that the heavy bolter in pistol mode would be used in the same hand that's supposed to be thwacking people on the head. Can't unsee now.

I think it's a moot point anyway. It's rare that pistols get used when within 1" of enemy models in my experience.
The unit either charged that turn, and thus was not within 1" during their shooting phase, or they unit they charge was either killed or fell back.
And even when your unit does end up within 1" of an enemy during your turn (either because they charged or the unit survived your charge then didn't fall back for some silly reason and survived another round of melee), are there really that many situations in which you'd stay engaged? No, you're far more likely to fall back yourself so that other units can kill that target.

I legitimately have not seen/played a single game of 8E in which the stars aligned just right for a Pistol to be used while still in melee.
So the Invictor using the same hand to use the HB is just fine. It's not using that fist during the Shooting phase for melee and not using the HB in the Fight phase, so there isn't a contradiction at all.

-

 Galef wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
You know, it never occurred to me that the heavy bolter in pistol mode would be used in the same hand that's supposed to be thwacking people on the head. Can't unsee now.

I think it's a moot point anyway. It's rare that pistols get used when within 1" of enemy models in my experience.
The unit either charged that turn, and thus was not within 1" during their shooting phase, or they unit they charge was either killed or fell back.
And even when your unit does end up within 1" of an enemy during your turn (either because they charged or the unit survived your charge then didn't fall back for some silly reason and survived another round of melee), are there really that many situations in which you'd stay engaged? No, you're far more likely to fall back yourself so that other units can kill that target.

I legitimately have not seen/played a single game of 8E in which the stars aligned just right for a Pistol to be used while still in melee.
So the Invictor using the same hand to use the HB is just fine. It's not using that fist during the Shooting phase for melee and not using the HB in the Fight phase, so there isn't a contradiction at all.

-

As a sisters of battle player, I see pistols used in melee basically every game. Especially melta pistols.

I lose my S and A bonus on the enemy's kickback, and I try to attack and pin tanks and then inferno-pistol them. With 10 Seraphim, it's unlikely all, or even a significant number of, my models will die, and then I get to blow whatever they were in with up with their melta pistols and charge something new.

Since you have assebled it yourself, do you think the Invictor is compatible with the front plate of the standard primaris redemptor dreadnought?

For the love of it, I cannot warm up to these metal bars.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As a sisters of battle player, I see pistols used in melee basically every game. Especially melta pistols.

I lose my S and A bonus on the enemy's kickback, and I try to attack and pin tanks and then inferno-pistol them. With 10 Seraphim, it's unlikely all, or even a significant number of, my models will die, and then I get to blow whatever they were in with up with their melta pistols and charge something new.

Maybe it's because I play more MSU and see that played often as well, but when it comes to melee, it's all or nothing. You either have melee units strong enough to wipe units you charged, or your opponent falls back and pew-pews you to death.
I'm actually surprised/impressed you actually have weak units like Sister live long enough to still be engaged on your turn.

But for an Invictor? It just seems like a situational bonus that shouldn't come up enough for the modeling "contradiction" to matter.
But I like Tamwulf's solution

-

 Galef wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
You know, it never occurred to me that the heavy bolter in pistol mode would be used in the same hand that's supposed to be thwacking people on the head. Can't unsee now.

I think it's a moot point anyway. It's rare that pistols get used when within 1" of enemy models in my experience.
The unit either charged that turn, and thus was not within 1" during their shooting phase, or they unit they charge was either killed or fell back.
And even when your unit does end up within 1" of an enemy during your turn (either because they charged or the unit survived your charge then didn't fall back for some silly reason and survived another round of melee), are there really that many situations in which you'd stay engaged? No, you're far more likely to fall back yourself so that other units can kill that target.

I legitimately have not seen/played a single game of 8E in which the stars aligned just right for a Pistol to be used while still in melee.
-

I have, quite a bit actually. It happens because a) something survived a round of melee and b) I have other higher-priority targets. Backing out of combat to be able to shoot guardsmen isn't a good investment if there are still any tanks to deal with. This is epecially true if I have a decent melee unit nearby that would like to not suffer overwatch fire moving in to help.

 Stevefamine wrote:
The model is terribly cartoonish and has cartoonish rules. 40k is a grimdark comedy

Chainswords are hilarious

Then you have never worked with saws, or seen a chain link break durning work. then you would nothing funny in them.

But even if they were silly, there is good silly, like for example orcs or eldar being a real thing, and being able to stand up to humans, the idea is silly, but fun in the lore. But there is also stupid silly, which is just stupid.

I have, quite a bit actually. It happens because a) something survived a round of melee and b) I have other higher-priority targets. Backing out of combat to be able to shoot guardsmen isn't a good investment if there are still any tanks to deal with. This is epecially true if I have a decent melee unit nearby that would like to not suffer overwatch fire moving in to help.

But aren't they always going to be used in 3s? taking just one and sending it off unsupported seems like a waste of 130 or so points.