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In an Elites environment, can the Imperial Guard still have a healthy (even 50-50 is fine) win-loss ratio (ie, not frustrating to play) without using those ogre-like thingies? (Bullgryns?)

Their major edge in the core book (the ability to have eight special weapons guys) is still there, I don't see why not.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Their major edge in the core book (the ability to have eight special weapons guys) is still there, I don't see why not.

Thanks! I've yet to buy the Elites rulebook and so am oblivious to how viable a Bullgryn-less IG squad is. I'll probably buy Elites this November though.

Yes, absolutely.

What bullgryns are really valuable for is points filler for 200pt commander games.

Without a couple in your roster you have to take a load of basic scions or guardsmen and you lose your special weapon flexibility. This has been made even worse by the FAQ restricting commanders to lvl1 in matched play.

Assuming that you talk about game sizes of 125 points, I must say yes they are still a competitive force.
I play against Gellerpox, Deathguard, Grey Knyight, Mechanicus, Necrons, Heretics and Tyranids on a regular basis and they are not disadvantaged with or without Ogryns.

But do not forget that the success of a team depends on the player, the mission and the Meta as well. What works for you might not work for somebody else.

For the additional 25 points, I add a Tempestor and 2 or 3 Guardsmen or a Scion, depends on the odd points left over from the 100 point list it will be based on.

Since the FAQ Ogryns and Bullgryns can't get orders via VOC, that makes the Ogryns IMHO useless - except to add some colour to your team.

The Bullgryn is still ok and makes a nice change and will surprise your opponent and allows you to use a different set of tactics.

That's a typical 125 points list w.o. Big Boys.

Brumbaer 1 / Astra Militarum (e)                         125

    Regimental Doctrines (0.0%)                            0

        Valhalla                                           0
            Grim Demeanour (GUARDSMAN only)                 

    Infantry Squad Guardsman (18.0%)                      36

     3x Guardsman                                         15
            Guardsman                                       
            Lasgun                                          
            Frag Grenades                                   

        Guardsman with Vox-caster                         10
            Guardsman                                       
            Lasgun                                          
            Frag Grenades                                   
            Vox-caster                                      
            Comms Specialist                                
            Scanner                                         

        Guardsman Gunner                                   6
            Guardsman Gunner                                
            Frag Grenades                                   
            Sniper Rifle                                    
            Demolitions Specialist                          
            Breacher                                        

        Guardsman Sergeant                                 5
            Guardsman Sergeant                              
            Laspistol                                       
            Chainsword                                      
            Frag Grenades                                   
            Leader                                          
            Resourceful                                     

    Special Weapons Squad Guardsman (12.0%)               24

     2x Special Weapons Gunner                            16
            Special Weapons Gunner                          
            Frag Grenades                                   
            Flamer                                          

        Special Weapons Gunner                             8
            Special Weapons Gunner                          
            Frag Grenades                                   
            Plasmagun                                       

    Miltarum Tempestus Scion (32.5%)                      65

        Scion Gunner                                      13
            Scion Gunner                                    
            Frag Grenades                                   
            Krak Grenades                                   
            Hot-Shot-Volley-Gun                             
            Sniper Specialist                               
            Marksman                                        

        Scion Gunner                                      13
            Scion Gunner                                    
            Frag Grenades                                   
            Krak Grenades                                   
            Hot-Shot-Volley-Gun                             

        Scion Gunner                                      13
            Scion Gunner                                    
            Frag Grenades                                   
            Krak Grenades                                   
            Plasmagun                                       

        Scion Gunner                                      13
            Scion Gunner                                    
            Frag Grenades                                   
            Krak Grenades                                   
            Meltagun                                        

        Tempestor                                         13
            Tempestor                                       
            Frag Grenades                                   
            Krak Grenades                                   
            Power Fist                                      
            Plasmapistol                                    

Ah. It's a consensus then. Thanks guys! Very insightful responses!