Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How important is it? Lets say 1750/2000p limit.

Is it good because of the ability to kill screens or MSU units holding objectives in buildings?

And for SM what OOLOS shooting unit is good?

Depends on a few factors.. terrain, secondaries, format etc. I play armies that lack in that department but I feel it ranges from valuable to game changing.

Marines are absolutely drenched in 'OOLOS', possibly the best in the game at it now. Top choices would be:

relic ww scorpius
elims- multi purpose with the option
1st thunderfire cannon/1st deredeo
more tfc/ 1st or more whirlwind with vengeance rounds
more deredeos- note I would list these top in csm but lower in sm

Indirect fire is relevant if you can't get to hiding units by other means; it serves a similar function to Deep Strikers, flyers, and other fast units. It's important if you don't have those but not hugely important if you do.

It's not an essential fundamental part of the game. Some armies don't have any access to it at all and do fine. But it can be very good when it's on an already fairly efficient unit. Hive Guard and Basilisks are other decent options.

Its value skyrockets in ITC formats, or similar vanilla missions.

SMs have Scorpius Whirlwind (legit), normal Whirlwind, Thunderfire and Quadcannon Rapier. I'd recommend all but the normal Whirlwind.

ITC has rules that makes it easyer to block LoS, so if you play that format then OOLOS is quite useful.

In vanilla 40K claiming No LoS is much more difficult.

It’s value depends entirely on the terrain you play with, if the board has a lot of terrain with plenty that completely blocks Line of Sight it becomes incredibly useful. In Malestrom for example there is bound to be multiple objectives you can’t see at the start of the game and potentially for the entire game. Having good no-LoS shooting can mean denying your opponent victory points or yourself earning them and potentially can be the difference between a win and a loss.

Assuming you play on decent board you either need it or alternative ways to do it. Mobile units can do much the same job. But if you have only static los guns you can be in trouble

 Stux wrote:
It's not an essential fundamental part of the game. Some armies don't have any access to it at all and do fine. But it can be very good when it's on an already fairly efficient unit. Hive Guard and Basilisks are other decent options.

For CSM I find it a sore spot. There are places on the table I NEED to be able to put deepstrikers. Without OOLOS I cannot address this.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Stux wrote:
It's not an essential fundamental part of the game. Some armies don't have any access to it at all and do fine. But it can be very good when it's on an already fairly efficient unit. Hive Guard and Basilisks are other decent options.

For CSM I find it a sore spot. There are places on the table I NEED to be able to put deepstrikers. Without OOLOS I cannot address this.

I don't think that's a good reason to make this kind of shooting more abundant tbh. Screening should always be a viable way to counteract the value of deep striking.

That rule seems like something that was suit Emo Shrike more than the Iron Father.

Really, you need just need SOME ability to get at units hiding out of LOS. Whether some good Flyers, some Deepstrike ability, or Indirect Fire, as long as you have one of these things, you'll be fine without the other two.

hTo elaborate on what has already been stated; its purely contextual.

Is your army a aurabuff gunline that moves maybe 6" a turn and you are playing ITC? if you don't bring indirect you are never tabling your op, and will struggle for kill/killmore towards the end of the game. Your op can also protect units if you take say, headhunter, or marked, and just deny you points by having them in los blocked terrain in some corner. Sometimes thats ok though, if you pick reaper, engineers and hold the middle you dont need to take pesky hiding units off the table.

Are you playing a CC heavy army that is largely infantry? There is barely a reason for it.

Like most thing it is just a tool, tools are useful for killing and points; but only ever contextually. Guard love their mortars for example because they can struggle with non kill based objectives like recon so are usually priced into 'kill stuff' objectives while being mostly and largely a shooty army.
Mortars in GSC i've found underwhelming as you already have many units that can take hiding units out and at the end of the day you are not trying to kill more with brute force like guard(where they try to smash you with max power every turn) but rather surgically after evaluating what your op has done to you in their turn and only committing necessary resources.
If you play Eldar and have planes the appeal of OOLOS is largely diminished as the planes can in many cases fill that role.
DE venoms also is a way fill that void, as you have many of them usually and they can go around into different areas and flush units out.

If you are running iron hands space marines id go with a relic whirlwind.


Depends on A)your army, B) The mission and how your army interacts with the mission C) the type of terrain that is common for where you play (some big tournies OOLOS is much better then others)

It's really important against tau and eldar.

 Stux wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Stux wrote:
It's not an essential fundamental part of the game. Some armies don't have any access to it at all and do fine. But it can be very good when it's on an already fairly efficient unit. Hive Guard and Basilisks are other decent options.

For CSM I find it a sore spot. There are places on the table I NEED to be able to put deepstrikers. Without OOLOS I cannot address this.

I don't think that's a good reason to make this kind of shooting more abundant tbh. Screening should always be a viable way to counteract the value of deep striking.

But it exists, so I'm at a bit of a disadvantage to other armies. A counter should have a counter, really.

I could take heldrakes, but they're exposed and expensive for what they do.

NLoS systems matter more the more terrain you have on the board.

it's good because it allows you to hide the shooter while also permitting them to hit targets of their choice.

Fragging objective holders is a use that can be game-winning, but it's also fairly inefficient from the perspective of using a Basilisk or Manticore to try to knock down riflemen.
More commonly, it allows a Manticore or Basilisk to fire and hide from retribution, because they're not that likely to clear away objective holders in the first place.


Also, as Space Marines, you can source the Basilisks, Manticores, or Wyverns from the IG to back you up if you're not satisfied with your Whirlwinds. The IG artillery is cheap but not very versatile. I don't know how the SM artillery performs because I rarely see Whirlwinds, but Thunderfire Cannons got a buff and Scorpios are good.