Switch Theme:

Who was Angron meant to be?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Going on the basis that each primarch was invented to fulfil a niche what was Agrons original purpose?

If he hadn’t had the butchers nails implanted would he have been such a psycho monster? We know that he was exceptionally loyal to his army of rebels and wanted to stand with them to the last man fell and the emperor had to teleport him away against his will.

The emperor was clearly upset that angron didn’t just bail on his entire life up ton that point like some of the primarchs were happy to do, but maybe that’s the way the emperor made him.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

No, he would have been quite different. Angron actually had an ability (possibly psychic) to soothe the pain and suffering of those around him. The High Riders inadvertently (or perhaps not) ripped this ability out of him when they lobotomised him to install the Butcher's Nails.

We can only guess at his original purpose but he might have been meant to represent the Emperor's compassion. The irony of what the nails eventually drove him to is even crueler in this light.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Don't quote me on this, but I think angron had an innate ability to take away others pain. I don't know if he lost that ability after he got the butchers nails, but it's actually quite tragic that the most violent primarch could have been one of the most gentle and empathetic had he not been screwed over by the slavers of nuceria.
Every primarch was in some way influenced by the planet they crashlanded on, but angron really drew the short stick. I think he would have turned out very different, had he landed on mcragge for example.

Edit: karhedron beat me to it

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/25 21:48:00


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

I didn't know about that ability. Yeah, that does make Angron an even more tragic character

-

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Karhedron wrote:
No, he would have been quite different. Angron actually had an ability (possibly psychic) to soothe the pain and suffering of those around him. The High Riders inadvertently (or perhaps not) ripped this ability out of him when they lobotomised him to install the Butcher's Nails.

We can only guess at his original purpose but he might have been meant to represent the Emperor's compassion. The irony of what the nails eventually drove him to is even crueler in this light.


Interesting that his legion didn’t receive any similar traits via the gene seed


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tiberias wrote:
Don't quote me on this, but I think angron had an innate ability to take away others pain. I don't know if he lost that ability after he got the butchers nails, but it's actually quite tragic that the most violent primarch could have been one of the most gentle and empathetic had he not been screwed over by the slavers of nuceria.
Every primarch was in some way influenced by the planet they crashlanded on, but angron really drew the short stick. I think he would have turned out very different, had he landed on mcragge for example.

Edit: karhedron beat me to it


Perhaps chaos saw him for what he was and deliberately sent him to the most violent place they could find

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/25 22:45:09


 
   
Made in fr
Stalwart Tribune





Tiberias wrote:

Every primarch was in some way influenced by the planet they crashlanded on, but angron really drew the short stick. I think he would have turned out very different, had he landed on mcragge for example.
How about Nostramo? It's interesting to see that Konrad Curze survived that hell on his own, but did so by becoming the most terrifying killer on a world of killers. Angron was possibly a nice guy, made into a monster by the slavers who wanted him to be a gladiator. In the end, they both turned into murderous psychopaths.

An interesting question is: what if the two had switched places? Would they have been more adapted to their worlds? Maybe Angron could have brought justice to Nostramo through hope instead of fear. Maybe Curze could have thrived in the gladiator arenas until he could murder the slavers and free Nuceria. Or maybe everything would have been the same. Nature vs nurture and all...
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tiennos wrote:
Tiberias wrote:

Every primarch was in some way influenced by the planet they crashlanded on, but angron really drew the short stick. I think he would have turned out very different, had he landed on mcragge for example.
How about Nostramo? It's interesting to see that Konrad Curze survived that hell on his own, but did so by becoming the most terrifying killer on a world of killers. Angron was possibly a nice guy, made into a monster by the slavers who wanted him to be a gladiator. In the end, they both turned into murderous psychopaths.

An interesting question is: what if the two had switched places? Would they have been more adapted to their worlds? Maybe Angron could have brought justice to Nostramo through hope instead of fear. Maybe Curze could have thrived in the gladiator arenas until he could murder the slavers and free Nuceria. Or maybe everything would have been the same. Nature vs nurture and all...


Interesting thought. I think if angron landed on nostramo he could have still turned out to be a rather decent guy, if he was really meant to be the emperors compassion. Nostramo was a crime ridden hellhole, but maybe he could have changed it for the better with his innate power to soothe others pain and suffering...sort of like a massive, roided out jesus.

If curze landed on nuceria though and got the butchers nails I think he would have been even worse. I mean the dude was basically driven insane by what he had witnessed in his visions and what he had seen on nostramo, now imagine him also being in a constant rage because of the nails. Curze was a sadist and a psychopath who kept the people in line by fear and justified his atrocities because he believed they served the greater good. As soon as he and his legion left a planet though, it turned back into a shithole, because it's not effective if you just keep people in line through fear. If you take away that fear they will turn back to their old ways eventually. So the butchers nails would have turned him into an even bigger piece of crap.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I think Angron's thing was supposed to be loyalty. It wasn't the nails that ruined him, the Emperor broke him when he rescued him from his slave brothers (and sisters) last stand.

Gulliman was reason, Lorgar was faith, Sanguinus was divinity, Horus was charisma/presence, Kurse was justice, Perterabo was idealism, Magnus was mysticism, the Kahn was individuality, etc. etc...

When the Emperor broke Angron, he broke the loyalty of his empire.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/26 03:24:58


 
   
Made in fr
Stalwart Tribune





Tiberias wrote:
Tiennos wrote:
Tiberias wrote:

Every primarch was in some way influenced by the planet they crashlanded on, but angron really drew the short stick. I think he would have turned out very different, had he landed on mcragge for example.
How about Nostramo? It's interesting to see that Konrad Curze survived that hell on his own, but did so by becoming the most terrifying killer on a world of killers. Angron was possibly a nice guy, made into a monster by the slavers who wanted him to be a gladiator. In the end, they both turned into murderous psychopaths.

An interesting question is: what if the two had switched places? Would they have been more adapted to their worlds? Maybe Angron could have brought justice to Nostramo through hope instead of fear. Maybe Curze could have thrived in the gladiator arenas until he could murder the slavers and free Nuceria. Or maybe everything would have been the same. Nature vs nurture and all...


Interesting thought. I think if angron landed on nostramo he could have still turned out to be a rather decent guy, if he was really meant to be the emperors compassion. Nostramo was a crime ridden hellhole, but maybe he could have changed it for the better with his innate power to soothe others pain and suffering...sort of like a massive, roided out jesus.

If curze landed on nuceria though and got the butchers nails I think he would have been even worse. I mean the dude was basically driven insane by what he had witnessed in his visions and what he had seen on nostramo, now imagine him also being in a constant rage because of the nails. Curze was a sadist and a psychopath who kept the people in line by fear and justified his atrocities because he believed they served the greater good. As soon as he and his legion left a planet though, it turned back into a shithole, because it's not effective if you just keep people in line through fear. If you take away that fear they will turn back to their old ways eventually. So the butchers nails would have turned him into an even bigger piece of crap.

Well, the nails could have ruined any primarch, anyway. My thought was that Curze might have been violent and vicious enough that no one decided to ramp that up with a lobotomy, leaving him with an "intact" mind.
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User




 Karhedron wrote:
No, he would have been quite different. Angron actually had an ability (possibly psychic) to soothe the pain and suffering of those around him. The High Riders inadvertently (or perhaps not) ripped this ability out of him when they lobotomised him to install the Butcher's Nails.

We can only guess at his original purpose but he might have been meant to represent the Emperor's compassion. The irony of what the nails eventually drove him to is even crueler in this light.

Actually he had this ability even with his Butchers nails. It is after Emperor took him he never showed this power again. But again, effects of nails were getting worse with time so it did not have to be entirely Emperors fault that this ability of Angron disappeared.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Vojcek wrote:
 Karhedron wrote:
No, he would have been quite different. Angron actually had an ability (possibly psychic) to soothe the pain and suffering of those around him. The High Riders inadvertently (or perhaps not) ripped this ability out of him when they lobotomised him to install the Butcher's Nails.

We can only guess at his original purpose but he might have been meant to represent the Emperor's compassion. The irony of what the nails eventually drove him to is even crueler in this light.

Actually he had this ability even with his Butchers nails. It is after Emperor took him he never showed this power again. But again, effects of nails were getting worse with time so it did not have to be entirely Emperors fault that this ability of Angron disappeared.

I'd guess the Emperor broke him when he 'broke' Angron. I think it makes the most sense that Angrons loss basically killed who he was and started him on the path of mindless berserker.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




pm713 wrote:
Vojcek wrote:
 Karhedron wrote:
No, he would have been quite different. Angron actually had an ability (possibly psychic) to soothe the pain and suffering of those around him. The High Riders inadvertently (or perhaps not) ripped this ability out of him when they lobotomised him to install the Butcher's Nails.

We can only guess at his original purpose but he might have been meant to represent the Emperor's compassion. The irony of what the nails eventually drove him to is even crueler in this light.

Actually he had this ability even with his Butchers nails. It is after Emperor took him he never showed this power again. But again, effects of nails were getting worse with time so it did not have to be entirely Emperors fault that this ability of Angron disappeared.

I'd guess the Emperor broke him when he 'broke' Angron. I think it makes the most sense that Angrons loss basically killed who he was and started him on the path of mindless berserker.


It's actually really sad, angron never really had a chance. He had been screwed over by the slavers on nuceria from the start and then also by his own dad. He was mutilated and never got the chance to fight and die beside his slave comrads, he never even got the chance to avenge them. That alone would be enough to break most men, even without the butchers nails.
Considering his backstory he is one of the most interesting primarchs. He could have been one of, if not the most compassionate primarch and ultimately ended up in the service of khorne of all people, stuck in a never ending cycle of indiscriminate mindless rage, slaughter and bloodshed. Him and magnus are the most tragic figures of the traitor primarchs in my opinion.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Angron is definitely the one I feel sympathy for the most. Most other traitors had a chance of 'goodness' or actively chose the bad life path. Angron had literally no choice from square one.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Tiberias wrote:
Him and magnus are the most tragic figures of the traitor primarchs in my opinion.

Angron deserves sympathy, for sure - Magnus deserves as sympathy much as any idiot who goes out drinking, gets wasted, and has the temerity to complain about a hangover the following morning.

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Dysartes wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Him and magnus are the most tragic figures of the traitor primarchs in my opinion.

Angron deserves sympathy, for sure - Magnus deserves as sympathy much as any idiot who goes out drinking, gets wasted, and has the temerity to complain about a hangover the following morning.

Magnus is a fantastic example for how bad the Emperor was at dealing with things that weren't as simple as killing the enemy.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Dysartes wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Him and magnus are the most tragic figures of the traitor primarchs in my opinion.

Angron deserves sympathy, for sure - Magnus deserves as sympathy much as any idiot who goes out drinking, gets wasted, and has the temerity to complain about a hangover the following morning.


Magnus meddled with things he should not have, but him ruining the emperors webway project was not his fault, magnus genuinely tried to warn him. Had the emperor educated magnus about the warp and told him about the webway project and the role he would eventually have to play in it, things could have gone a lot differently. Just goes to show that the emperor only cared for humanity as a concept and never really gave a gak about his "sons", which is part of the reason the heresy happened in the first place.
Also leman russ was a colossal douchebag all through the burning of prospero. Never listened to advice or concern from valdor and just acted like the quick tempered, stupid space-viking that he was. For all of those reasons I think magnus deserves some sympathy.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tiberias wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Him and magnus are the most tragic figures of the traitor primarchs in my opinion.

Angron deserves sympathy, for sure - Magnus deserves as sympathy much as any idiot who goes out drinking, gets wasted, and has the temerity to complain about a hangover the following morning.


Magnus meddled with things he should not have, but him ruining the emperors webway project was not his fault, magnus genuinely tried to warn him. Had the emperor educated magnus about the warp and told him about the webway project and the role he would eventually have to play in it, things could have gone a lot differently. Just goes to show that the emperor only cared for humanity as a concept and never really gave a gak about his "sons", which is part of the reason the heresy happened in the first place.
Also leman russ was a colossal douchebag all through the burning of prospero. Never listened to advice or concern from valdor and just acted like the quick tempered, stupid space-viking that he was. For all of those reasons I think magnus deserves some sympathy.


To be fair to Russ he was following a legal order (from his perspective, even if it did appeal to his own biases about Magnus).

As for Angron, I've always felt he was the saddest primarch. He's the only one who essentially didn't conquer or take charge of his home world and was so broken by the time the emperor found him that he should have been given the mercy of a quick and clean death.

Instead the Emperor against the advice of his most trusted advisers went with I'll use him as long as I can. His entire life was essentially spend as a broken child soldier whose dad told him that you need to keep fighting after finding him.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Tiberias wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Him and magnus are the most tragic figures of the traitor primarchs in my opinion.

Angron deserves sympathy, for sure - Magnus deserves as sympathy much as any idiot who goes out drinking, gets wasted, and has the temerity to complain about a hangover the following morning.


Magnus meddled with things he should not have, but him ruining the emperors webway project was not his fault, magnus genuinely tried to warn him. Had the emperor educated magnus about the warp and told him about the webway project and the role he would eventually have to play in it, things could have gone a lot differently. Just goes to show that the emperor only cared for humanity as a concept and never really gave a gak about his "sons", which is part of the reason the heresy happened in the first place.
Also leman russ was a colossal douchebag all through the burning of prospero. Never listened to advice or concern from valdor and just acted like the quick tempered, stupid space-viking that he was. For all of those reasons I think magnus deserves some sympathy.

Him ruining the Webway Project was completely his fault. He was told the Warp was dangerous and ignored that and also didn't ever stop to think that maybe things were a bit convenient and like a trap. I agree the Emperor is an awful father and it's almost entirely his fault but Magnus is very much to blame.

That's an incredibly unfair depiction of Russ as well.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




In fairness again, Nikea was retroactively rigged by the chaos gods. What he was actually 'convicted' of doing wasn't really the work of his sons, and he knew that but couldn't prove it and didn't really know what happened.

But in fairness again on the other hand, if he'd been more honest with his father the super-psyker-geneticist about the flesh change instead of "I can handle this all myself" maybe he wouldn't have ended up signing a blank cheque to Tzeench without realising it....

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in cz
Longtime Dakkanaut




pm713 wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Him and magnus are the most tragic figures of the traitor primarchs in my opinion.

Angron deserves sympathy, for sure - Magnus deserves as sympathy much as any idiot who goes out drinking, gets wasted, and has the temerity to complain about a hangover the following morning.


Magnus meddled with things he should not have, but him ruining the emperors webway project was not his fault, magnus genuinely tried to warn him. Had the emperor educated magnus about the warp and told him about the webway project and the role he would eventually have to play in it, things could have gone a lot differently. Just goes to show that the emperor only cared for humanity as a concept and never really gave a gak about his "sons", which is part of the reason the heresy happened in the first place.
Also leman russ was a colossal douchebag all through the burning of prospero. Never listened to advice or concern from valdor and just acted like the quick tempered, stupid space-viking that he was. For all of those reasons I think magnus deserves some sympathy.

Him ruining the Webway Project was completely his fault. He was told the Warp was dangerous and ignored that and also didn't ever stop to think that maybe things were a bit convenient and like a trap. I agree the Emperor is an awful father and it's almost entirely his fault but Magnus is very much to blame.

That's an incredibly unfair depiction of Russ as well.



Have to disagree on that one. How can it be Magnus' fault if he never knew about the project in the first place. Like I said, the emperor failed to educate him about the warp and the webway project, which is even more of a problem than not educating the other primarchs because magnus was detrimental for the project (at least in its final stages and after completion). He just honestly tried to warn him and was then ultimately driven into the arms of tzeentch by the overreaction of his dad and the knee jerk decisions of russ.

Like has already been said, angron was probably too far gone when they found him, but magnus could have stayed a loyalist primarch, if they had handled the situation better.

I also stand by my assessment of russ. Even after horus intercepted their communication constantin valdor tried to diffuse the situation and told russ that magnus was to be brought back alive to the emperor to stand trial and russ said that if the emperor wanted magnus alive he would not have sent him and his legion to deal with him. He was out to destroy magnus and his sons from the get go, even before horus altered the command and he was never interested to emphasise with his brother for one second. So yeah, russ was a colossal douchebag through the burning of prospero.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Magnus chose to just smash through the obstacle in his way, Magnus chose to bargain with the beings he didn't understand, Magnus chose to completely ignore the instruction not to do any more Warp shenanigans. How is it not his fault?

It wasn't a knee jerk reaction at all. He spent months preparing and travelling and went out of his way to try and give Magnus an out or so he thought. I wouldn't call it an over reaction either - In a single act of colossal arrogance and betrayal Magnus permanently destroyed the future of all humanity.
Russ was being a good soldier. If Magnus had been more like Russ then he wouldn't have gone off the rails.

I agree that Magnus could have stayed loyal if things had gone differently but to be honest the surprising thing about the heresy is that only half went traitor.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Magnus fell to Chaos a long time before Nikea though, saving his legion from the flesh-change afflicting them.

Also, it's kind of unfair to the Emperor to blame him for being out-smarted by Tzeentch.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/30 16:55:54


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Nurglitch wrote:
Magnus fell to Chaos a long time before Nikea though, saving his legion from the flesh-change afflicting them.

Also, it's kind of unfair to the Emperor to blame him for being out-smarted by Tzeentch.

No he really didn't. He was moving towards Chaos sure but he wasn't actually a servant for it yet.

It's not. I don't blame him for being outsmarted by Tzeentch, I blame him for being an idiot.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





pm713 wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
Magnus fell to Chaos a long time before Nikea though, saving his legion from the flesh-change afflicting them.

Also, it's kind of unfair to the Emperor to blame him for being out-smarted by Tzeentch.

No he really didn't. He was moving towards Chaos sure but he wasn't actually a servant for it yet.

It's not. I don't blame him for being outsmarted by Tzeentch, I blame him for being an idiot.

Magnus sold his soul and the soul of his sons to Tzeentch. It's exposited in good Graham McNeil style in A Thousand Sons. As for the Emperor being an idiot, how would you have written the Emperor as being defeated by the Chaos Gods?
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

I agree with Nurglitch. I think it's obviously implied that Magnus and company were already up to their necks in Tzeentch by the time they started using tutelaries and such.

The nature of Tzeentch means that your 'fall' would likely be a uniquely subtle process that you wouldn't be aware of until it's over. You'd lose your free will drip by drip, doing Tzeentch's bidding more and more but thinking your actions were your own. It wouldn't be some dramatic apotheosis like with the other powers.

My AT Gallery
My World Eaters Showcase
View my Genestealer Cult! Article - Gallery - Blog
Best Appearance - GW Baltimore GT 2008, Colonial GT 2012

DQ:70+S++++G+M++++B++I+Pw40k90#+D++A+++/fWD66R++T(Ot)DM+++

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Nurglitch wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
Magnus fell to Chaos a long time before Nikea though, saving his legion from the flesh-change afflicting them.

Also, it's kind of unfair to the Emperor to blame him for being out-smarted by Tzeentch.

No he really didn't. He was moving towards Chaos sure but he wasn't actually a servant for it yet.

It's not. I don't blame him for being outsmarted by Tzeentch, I blame him for being an idiot.

Magnus sold his soul and the soul of his sons to Tzeentch. It's exposited in good Graham McNeil style in A Thousand Sons. As for the Emperor being an idiot, how would you have written the Emperor as being defeated by the Chaos Gods?

Without making idiotic decisions like putting insane, out of control maniacs in charge of superhuman armies and then watching him make them just as insane twiddling my thumbs. I might have used my god powers to at least try and steer the Mechanicum out of their religious backwardness and perhaps just perhaps I would have hired a damn therapist for my maladjusted human super-weapons.

Honestly I don't remember that happening at all but its been a while since I read that book.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in cz
Longtime Dakkanaut




pm713 wrote:
Magnus chose to just smash through the obstacle in his way, Magnus chose to bargain with the beings he didn't understand, Magnus chose to completely ignore the instruction not to do any more Warp shenanigans. How is it not his fault?

It wasn't a knee jerk reaction at all. He spent months preparing and travelling and went out of his way to try and give Magnus an out or so he thought. I wouldn't call it an over reaction either - In a single act of colossal arrogance and betrayal Magnus permanently destroyed the future of all humanity.
Russ was being a good soldier. If Magnus had been more like Russ then he wouldn't have gone off the rails.

I agree that Magnus could have stayed loyal if things had gone differently but to be honest the surprising thing about the heresy is that only half went traitor.


Yeah he smashed through it because he didn't know how important it was and he thought warning big-e about horus was more important. I still don't get your point, if one is to blame it's the emperor. If he had incorporated magnus in the webaway project, this would probably not have happened.
Also what was the emperors endgame here if he would have been able to complete the project? Magnus was supposed to also sit on the throne, so what if he didn't want to be bound to that machine for prolonged periods of time? Would the emperor just force him on it? I mean he most likely could, but what if magnus then tries to sabotage it in some way. The whole premise was flawed. The emperor was a great leader, but he did not understand people on a individual level at all, even after watching them for countless millennia.

Also if you define a good soldier as a narrow minded brute, who is hellbent on destroying is brother and his brothers planet, even though the captain general of the custodes advises you to not escalate the situation, then yes russ was indeed a good soldier...
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




Magnus could have had good tutelaries.
They might not have been human once. But doesnt mean theyre Khaosey.
The Emp has his own daemons these days. Celestine, LOTD.
Thats only after 10k years.
So those whale leviathans, that helped magnus could have been good natured. Think Khaos or meat eating predators, dont have to be as large as the peaceful grass eaters.

To get back on Angron, and his capabilities, theres no telling what his capabilities were.
He apparently had a soothing aura. I dont know whether a bunch of starving gladiators, that needed his blood to survive.
are reliable.
Most primarchs seem to have 3ish inter twining qualities these days.
He was the equivalent of Sanguinius in combat. So everyone thought. Im not sure if he would be without the nails. Not that Sanguinius has done much either. But maybe he had some fore sight as well.
He has Dorns loyalty, just not to the emp.
Now the soothing aura, that would be Lorgar.
I wouldnt be surprised if he was charismatic as f. Without the nails and shouldve got Horus's job.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/01 14:03:13


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Tiberias wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Magnus chose to just smash through the obstacle in his way, Magnus chose to bargain with the beings he didn't understand, Magnus chose to completely ignore the instruction not to do any more Warp shenanigans. How is it not his fault?

It wasn't a knee jerk reaction at all. He spent months preparing and travelling and went out of his way to try and give Magnus an out or so he thought. I wouldn't call it an over reaction either - In a single act of colossal arrogance and betrayal Magnus permanently destroyed the future of all humanity.
Russ was being a good soldier. If Magnus had been more like Russ then he wouldn't have gone off the rails.

I agree that Magnus could have stayed loyal if things had gone differently but to be honest the surprising thing about the heresy is that only half went traitor.


Yeah he smashed through it because he didn't know how important it was and he thought warning big-e about horus was more important. I still don't get your point, if one is to blame it's the emperor. If he had incorporated magnus in the webaway project, this would probably not have happened.
Also what was the emperors endgame here if he would have been able to complete the project? Magnus was supposed to also sit on the throne, so what if he didn't want to be bound to that machine for prolonged periods of time? Would the emperor just force him on it? I mean he most likely could, but what if magnus then tries to sabotage it in some way. The whole premise was flawed. The emperor was a great leader, but he did not understand people on a individual level at all, even after watching them for countless millennia.

Also if you define a good soldier as a narrow minded brute, who is hellbent on destroying is brother and his brothers planet, even though the captain general of the custodes advises you to not escalate the situation, then yes russ was indeed a good soldier...

Ignorance is not a defence. If I throw a heavy object off a building and kill somebody I'm still responsible for being an idiot and doing something dangerous.

I blame Magnus for ruining both the Webway and mankinds future and his actions but the Emperor is to blame for the overall Heresy.

Magnus was meant to sit on the Throne therefore he would was the logic I think. As you say the Emperor did not understand people and the plan is flawed.

No I think a good soldier is someone who received his orders, decided he had no reason to defy them and proceeded to carry them out. If you want to get nitpicky then I'd say that's just an adequate soldier.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





So you're tens of thousands of years old, and have been waiting for the latest of the Chaos Gods to be born into the Material Universe so that you can take over the left-overs from the latest galactic civilization to be destroyed by the Warp. You know you have a limited amount of time before the Orks (or perhaps something worse you don't know about) over-run the galaxy, and every step forward that you make will be anticipated by a God whose entire schtick is playing silly buggers with the best laid plans of mice and men. Your attempts to understand everything you have seen and known, to use that knowledge, will be subverted by a God whose schtick is ruining everything and anything. Your only tool for doing so feeds a God of war and bloodshed, whose only interest is in burning down the galaxy. And you know that whatever you do, there's another God waiting at the end of time to undo whatever it is you can accomplish.

On your marks, get set, you will be graded on curve.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: