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2019/10/01 13:45:11
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
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never actually needed to do this before but with my orks on the weekend i had a unit in the middle of the table who got hurt bad on an obj and a weirdboy in my back by an edge>
i green tided them to the edge of the board next to the weirdboy then da jumped them back to exactly where they were!
its was like crazy good and cant find a rules reason why its not legit< second guessing my self?
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2019/10/01 13:51:52
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Norn Queen
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 Latro_ wrote:never actually needed to do this before but with my orks on the weekend i had a unit in the middle of the table who got hurt bad on an obj and a weirdboy in my back by an edge>
i green tided them to the edge of the board next to the weirdboy then da jumped them back to exactly where they were!
its was like crazy good and cant find a rules reason why its not legit< second guessing my self?
As far as I can tell it's perfectly legal. Green Tide happens in the Movement Phase, Da Jump happens in the Psychic Phase. Da Jump is not movement, so the rule about reinforcements not being able to move further that turn does not apply.
As always I could have missed a FAQ in the literally hundreds of documents needed to play this game, so if I have I apologise.
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2019/10/01 14:16:58
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
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yea i know what you mean, its just thins sort of thing that is tucked away in some faq / designers comments.
had a good look though.
Was literally one of the sneakiest tricksy ork things i have done in recent times, they are blood axes so its fluffy too.
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2019/10/01 20:12:16
Subject: Re:green tide and da jump
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Not sure if it works. Da jump says the unit counts as having moved. And units that are set up as reinforcements (like a green tided ork unit) cant move for any reason, not even with a psychic power.
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2019/10/01 20:18:32
Subject: Re:green tide and da jump
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Norn Queen
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 p5freak wrote:Not sure if it works. Da jump says the unit counts as having moved. And units that are set up as reinforcements (like a green tided ork unit) cant move for any reason, not even with a psychic power.
Counts as having moved is not the same as actually moving.
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2019/10/01 20:19:32
Subject: Re:green tide and da jump
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Both seems to be "remove and set up" type ability. I don't see the correlation/relevance of the unit counting as having moved having any effect as far as resolving the two go.
Wasn't the issue with Da Jump simply not being able to be used in turn 1 due to it being a reinforcement type ability and nothing more?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/01 20:21:55
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2019/10/01 20:49:06
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
Douglasville, GA
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Da Jump can be used turn 1. Because the models it "moves" are already on the board.
As for Unstoppable Green Tide and Da Jump, they can be used in tandem, yeah.
Unstoppable Green Tide: Use this Stratagem at the end of your Movement phase. Select a unit of BOYZ from your army that has less than
half its starting number of models and remove it from the
battlefield. You can then set it up again wholly within 6"
of the edge of the battlefield and more than 9" from any
enemy models, at its full starting strength. You cannot
select a unit for this Stratagem that has been merged via
the Mob Up Stratagem. You can only use this Stratagem
once per battle.
Da Jump: Da Jump has a warp charge value
of 7. If manifested, select a friendly
ORK INFANTRY unit within 12" of
the psyker. Remove that unit from
the battlefield, and then set it up
anywhere on the battlefield more
than 9" away from any enemy units.
That unit counts as having moved
for any rules purposes, such as firing
Heavy weapons.
I can see no conflicts between the two that would disallow it. Nothing in UST seems to imply that it works like Reinforcements. But even if it did, I can find no rule that would disallow Da Jumping of units arriving from Reinforcements anyway.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/01 21:00:45
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2019/10/01 21:48:41
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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Unstoppable Green Tide removes the unit from the battlefield and sets them up again, as so, a unit "recycled" this way is subject to the following BRB FAQ 1.6 entry:
Da Jump uses the same vernacular, and thus item (2) and (3) come into effect. Specifically, a unit recylced/moved via Unstoppable Green Tide or Da Jump counts as having moved it's full movement characteristic, and cannot move again for any reason.
So UGT is used, and the unit has to obey item (3). A unit that wants to use Da Jump, counts as moving it's movement characteristic per item (2). This contravenes the instruction to not move again in the aforementioned item (3). This "movement" is reinforced by the wording of Da Jump.
And yes, if you "count as moving for all rules purposes", you are in contravention of item (3), being that it is, in fact, a rule.
To sum-up: no, you cannot Da Jump after using Unstoppable Green Tide.
Edit: formatting.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/01 21:53:51
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2019/10/01 22:08:05
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Norn Queen
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And, again, "count as moving" is not the same as moving. Da Jump is not movement.
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2019/10/01 22:34:43
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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If it counts as moving, then rules prohibiting movement prohibit it. This combo isn’t legal as per a couple of FAQs (the one quoted and Rulebook FAQ page 11).
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 Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2019/10/01 22:35:54
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
Douglasville, GA
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I agree with BCB. Da Jump isn't the same as actually Moving. At least by RAW.
It says "counts as having Moved", not "this counts as Moving". Subtle, but critical, difference.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/01 22:36:50
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2019/10/01 22:40:52
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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 flandarz wrote:I agree with BCB. Da Jump isn't the same as actually Moving. At least by RAW.
It says "counts as having Moved", not "this counts as Moving". Subtle, but critical, difference.
One that the rules ably cover. If it counts as having moved you apply rules that apply to movement. The distinction you think is there simply isn’t.
Also, the rules are written colloquially. “Moving” and “having moved” aren’t separate rules terms, just colloquially ways of saying the same thing. the level of lawyeresque distinction you both claim simply isn’t present.
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2019/10/01 23:00:25
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
Douglasville, GA
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I'm gonna try to explain it better. Let's assume a hypothetical situation where you have an ability that says a unit that uses it "counts as having attacked in the Shooting Phase". If you use this ability, your unit doesn't actually attack anything, it just "counts as" having done so. So, if you first use an ability that states: "A unit that uses this cannot attack in the Shooting Phase", then use that ability, there's no conflict, as far as I can tell. Because "counting as" having done something is not the same as actually doing it.
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2019/10/01 23:01:59
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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flandarz wrote:I'm gonna try to explain it better. Let's assume a hypothetical situation where you have an ability that says a unit that uses it "counts as having attacked in the Shooting Phase". If you use this ability, your unit doesn't actually attack anything, it just "counts as" having done so. So, if you first use an ability that states: "A unit that uses this cannot attack in the Shooting Phase", then use that ability, there's no conflict, as far as I can tell. Because "counting as" having done something is not the same as actually doing it.
Changing the situation changes the interpretations, so this doesn’t actually aid anything. We have all the info we need in earlier posts.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2019/10/01 23:22:23
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
Douglasville, GA
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To be fair, it wasn't a drastic change. It was the equivalent to replacing instances of "move" with "shoot". But okay.
So, we'll go off the earlier info. The FAQ states: "Models in that unit cannot move again during that turn for any reason, other than to make a charge move, to pile in, or to consolidate." Da Jump states: "That unit counts as having moved for any rules purposes, such as firing Heavy weapons." However, it doesn't state "The unit is moved...". Therefore, it doesn't fall under the "cannot move again" clause, as the unit isn't being moved. It just counts having done so.
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2019/10/01 23:44:51
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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 JohnnyHell wrote:If it counts as moving, then rules prohibiting movement prohibit it. This combo isn’t legal as per a couple of FAQs (the one quoted and Rulebook FAQ page 11).
Agreed. There is no good-faith argument to be had here.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/01 23:45:11
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2019/10/01 23:53:20
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Norn Queen
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 Larks wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:If it counts as moving, then rules prohibiting movement prohibit it. This combo isn’t legal as per a couple of FAQs (the one quoted and Rulebook FAQ page 11).
Agreed. There is no good-faith argument to be had here.
Except the one where "counts as moving" is not the same as moving. Da Jump does not cause the unit to move like Warptime does.
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2019/10/02 06:14:18
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Counts as moving means that the rules for ‘things that affect the unit if it moved’ apply. That includes not being able to use Da Jump. That is RAW.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2019/10/02 06:43:37
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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The combo is perfectly legal. The restrictive clause states that a unit cannot move for any reason. Since Da Jump is definitely not moving (as proven by the fact that the unit only 'count as moving') there is nothing stopping players using these two abilities in tandem.
Not that it's a particularly common, game winning, or even strong strategy anyway.
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2019/10/02 06:54:39
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
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 BaconCatBug wrote: Larks wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:If it counts as moving, then rules prohibiting movement prohibit it. This combo isn’t legal as per a couple of FAQs (the one quoted and Rulebook FAQ page 11).
Agreed. There is no good-faith argument to be had here.
Except the one where "counts as moving" is not the same as moving. Da Jump does not cause the unit to move like Warptime does.
If the unit hasn't moved, why are they not in the same place?
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2019/10/02 06:55:57
Subject: Re:green tide and da jump
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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No, you cant use da jump on a green tided unit.
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2019/10/02 07:04:25
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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 Stux wrote: BaconCatBug wrote: Larks wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:If it counts as moving, then rules prohibiting movement prohibit it. This combo isn’t legal as per a couple of FAQs (the one quoted and Rulebook FAQ page 11).
Agreed. There is no good-faith argument to be had here.
Except the one where "counts as moving" is not the same as moving. Da Jump does not cause the unit to move like Warptime does.
If the unit hasn't moved, why are they not in the same place?
Because they have redeployed?
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2019/10/02 07:28:24
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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 An Actual Englishman wrote: Stux wrote: BaconCatBug wrote: Larks wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:If it counts as moving, then rules prohibiting movement prohibit it. This combo isn’t legal as per a couple of FAQs (the one quoted and Rulebook FAQ page 11).
Agreed. There is no good-faith argument to be had here.
Except the one where "counts as moving" is not the same as moving. Da Jump does not cause the unit to move like Warptime does.
If the unit hasn't moved, why are they not in the same place?
Because they have redeployed?
So, they moved from one place to another ?
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2019/10/02 07:30:35
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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p5freak wrote: An Actual Englishman wrote: Stux wrote: BaconCatBug wrote: Larks wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:If it counts as moving, then rules prohibiting movement prohibit it. This combo isn’t legal as per a couple of FAQs (the one quoted and Rulebook FAQ page 11).
Agreed. There is no good-faith argument to be had here.
Except the one where "counts as moving" is not the same as moving. Da Jump does not cause the unit to move like Warptime does.
If the unit hasn't moved, why are they not in the same place?
Because they have redeployed?
So, they moved from one place to another ?
Nope, they've redeployed.
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2019/10/02 07:31:26
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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An Actual Englishman wrote: p5freak wrote: An Actual Englishman wrote: Stux wrote: BaconCatBug wrote: Larks wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:If it counts as moving, then rules prohibiting movement prohibit it. This combo isn’t legal as per a couple of FAQs (the one quoted and Rulebook FAQ page 11).
Agreed. There is no good-faith argument to be had here.
Except the one where "counts as moving" is not the same as moving. Da Jump does not cause the unit to move like Warptime does.
If the unit hasn't moved, why are they not in the same place?
Because they have redeployed?
So, they moved from one place to another ?
Nope, they've redeployed.
Which means they moved from one place to another.
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2019/10/02 07:33:55
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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...but is not the same as 'moving' in so far as the rules are concerned.
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2019/10/02 07:40:35
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Yes it is. And btw, there is no redeployment in 8th. There is deployment before the game. During the game units are set up as reinforcements, and those cant move any further that turn for any reason. When they go from one place to another they have moved.
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2019/10/02 07:53:41
Subject: green tide and da jump
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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That's where you are wrong.
Da Jump: Da Jump has a warp charge value
of 7. If manifested, select a friendly
ORK INFANTRY unit within 12" of
the psyker. Remove that unit from
the battlefield, and then set it up
anywhere on the battlefield more
than 9" away from any enemy units.
That unit counts as having moved
for any rules purposes, such as firing
Heavy weapons.
Counts as having moved =/= moved. This literally proves that using Da Jump is not moving.
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2019/10/02 07:59:32
Subject: Re:green tide and da jump
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Units that have been set up as reinforcements cant move any further that turn for any reason. If a unit goes from one place to another place it has moved, which is illegal.
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2019/10/02 08:05:10
Subject: Re:green tide and da jump
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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p5freak wrote:Units that have been set up as reinforcements cant move any further that turn for any reason. If a unit goes from one place to another place it has moved, which is illegal.
No, you're not quoting raw at all. Units that have been set up as reinforcements cannot MOVE for any reason.
Da Jump is not moving, as proven above. Therefore legal.
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