Did Phoenix Rising do anything for Ynarri?

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**PenitentJake**

So I'm very curious about Phoenix Rising; GW has shown us rule updates for some models and factions, but they've been tight lipped about whether there are any changes to the Ynarri from their WD dex. I'm not gonna be able to spring for the book until payday. I thought people would be talking about the book by now, but there's nothing yet. So I figured I'd just ask. Thanks!

**vict0988**

Unique HQs become cheaper.

**bullyboy**

A couple strategems changed in CP cost (went up I believe)

**PenitentJake**

I'd heard a rumour that the rules for including CWE and DE units may have changed to allow the Reborn units to retain more of their previous abilities. Anything on that front?

**Amishprn86**

vict0988 wrote:
Unique HQs become cheaper.

Most important part IMO, they are about where they need to be now.

**Racerguy180**

The price of the box made me not add it to my Ynarri.

**Imateria**

Points drops on the characters, the strat that gives Incubi SfD went down to 1CP and the strat that gives you +1A if you have Craftworlds, Harlequins and Drukhari in your army went up to 2CP. I think thats it.

**pm713**

Game wise cheaper characters and some stratagem changes. Lore wise they forced more Ynnari down our throats without making sense doing it either.

**vipoid**

Imateria wrote:
Points drops on the characters, the strat that gives Incubi SfD went down to 1CP and the strat that gives you +1A if you have Craftworlds, Harlequins and Drukhari in your army went up to 2CP. I think thats it.

Also Word of the Phoenix has been nerfed into the ground.

**Sumilidon**

It ticked a box to say "we've done Eldar". Now they can go back to more Imperium and Chaos releases.

**BrianDavion**

Sumilidon wrote:
It ticked a box to say "we've done Eldar". Now they can go back to more Imperium and Chaos releases.

the cynic in me says you're right, the optimistic point of me hopes you're wrong. I've noted before that GW seems to follow up these big box releases with a mini wave release a few months later. So I'm hoping that's gonna be the case here.

**Skinnereal**

That's why I am not getting the P-Rising book until I see what they do next.

**Xenomancers**

Incubi got a lot better. The do 3 damage on a 6 now. Drazar is also pretty great when used with incubi.

Ynnari are weak compared to CWE now though. There are some really good combos you can take with CWE custom craftworlds. Plus aspect warriors got as lot better. We might actually start seeing some warp spiders and dire avengers. Shinning spears also got a lot better so we will see plenty of them.

The issue with ynnari is SFD is not good. SFD should give you 5+ FNP/+1 attack/ +2 to charge range as a choice - +1 to hit in melee is garbage.

**Burnage**

vipoid wrote:
Imateria wrote:
Points drops on the characters, the strat that gives Incubi SfD went down to 1CP and the strat that gives you +1A if you have Craftworlds, Harlequins and Drukhari in your army went up to 2CP. I think thats it.

Also Word of the Phoenix has been nerfed into the ground.

It's not that bad. It didn't deserve a nerf but it still heals characters well.

**Tyranid Horde**

Short answer is no.

Long answer is they got some points changes to their characters and CP changes to stratagems. In terms of lore they're still a ropey faction and can't even beat a hologram Greater Daemon.

**kingheff**

I'm right in thinking that in the fluff eldrad and Jain zar are fully aligned to the ynarri but cannot be fielded in a ynarri detachment, right?

**Tyranid Horde**

Eldrad doesn't get much of a mention in this book, but he is pretty much aligned with Ynnari. Jain Zar is one of Yvraine's "Champions" in her fight against a Slaaneshi Daemon.

There is a tiny tid-bit of fluff where Iybraesil try to contact Jain Zar and tell her that she should be fighting for the Craftworlders and not the Ynnari.

Rules-wise I don't think they can be taken as part of the Ynnari but I could be wrong.

**Iracundus**

Tyranid Horde wrote:
Eldrad doesn't get much of a mention in this book, but he is pretty much aligned with Ynnari. Jain Zar is one of Yvraine's "Champions" in her fight against a Slaaneshi Daemon.

There is a tiny tid-bit of fluff where Iybraesil try to contact Jain Zar and tell her that she should be fighting for the Craftworlders and not the Ynnari.

Rules-wise I don't think they can be taken as part of the Ynnari but I could be wrong.

The special edition includes the fluff from the box set and 4 extra short stories. The short stories are superfluous, but the additional detail about Jain Zarr vs. Drazhar is nice:

Spoiler:

**Tyranid Horde**

Cheers for the info, the fact the fluff is spread between the Psychic Awakening book and Blood of the Phoenix makes it really difficult to enjoy as one book.

As a standalone, Phoenix Rising could have benefited from those stories.

**kingheff**

Tyranid Horde wrote:
Eldrad doesn't get much of a mention in this book, but he is pretty much aligned with Ynnari. Jain Zar is one of Yvraine's "Champions" in her fight against a Slaaneshi Daemon.

There is a tiny tid-bit of fluff where Iybraesil try to contact Jain Zar and tell her that she should be fighting for the Craftworlders and not the Ynnari.

Rules-wise I don't think they can be taken as part of the Ynnari but I could be wrong.

I'm reading wild rider atm and eldrad is with yvraine so he seems pretty much aligned with the ynarri but I haven't finished it yet.

**vipoid**

Burnage wrote:
vipoid wrote:
Imateria wrote:
Points drops on the characters, the strat that gives Incubi SfD went down to 1CP and the strat that gives you +1A if you have Craftworlds, Harlequins and Drukhari in your army went up to 2CP. I think thats it.

Also Word of the Phoenix has been nerfed into the ground.

It's not that bad. It didn't deserve a nerf but it still heals characters well.

Given that Eldar characters are among the most fragile in the game, which characters are you healing with this? Especially on a regular enough basis to make it worth taking in the first place.

Also, I feel it worth mentioning that other armies have Apothecaries that heal automatically and resurrect models on a 4+. We already needed to pass a psychic test just to heal d3 wounds (and given the possibility of Perils, it's entirely possible to end up taking more wounds than you heal), and now even after passing a psychic test there's an additional 50% chance of the ability failing outright.

It is now beyond abysmal.

**pm713**

Iracundus wrote:
Tyranid Horde wrote:
Eldrad doesn't get much of a mention in this book, but he is pretty much aligned with Ynnari. Jain Zar is one of Yvraine's "Champions" in her fight against a Slaaneshi Daemon.

There is a tiny tid-bit of fluff where Iybraesil try to contact Jain Zar and tell her that she should be fighting for the Craftworlders and not the Ynnari.

Rules-wise I don't think they can be taken as part of the Ynnari but I could be wrong.

The special edition includes the fluff from the box set and 4 extra short stories. The short stories are superfluous, but the additional detail about Jain Zarr vs. Drazhar is nice:

Spoiler:

Jain Zar gets defeated by Drazhar in Shaa-dom (due to Drazhar turning the tables at the last moment by using that necklace of spirit stones which its actually a tormentor composed of Banshee souls) and is bisected at the waist and dragged down into Aelindrach along with the bodies of a few accompanying Banshees. Yvraine prays to Ynnead for a miracle and Ynnead grants it by resurrecting a Banshee Exarch in Aelindrach, who then finds and puts on Jain Zar's mask and resurrects Jain Zar. The significance of this is now there is a mote of Ynnead's power in the newest soul forming the gestalt soul of Jain Zar.

Jain Zar fights back and finally faces off against Drazhar amidst the ruins of Zandros. As the other Eldar around them fight and die, the Ynnari draw power from death and fight faster. This includes Jain Zar (so really her rules should allow for this), until she is faster than Drazhar and defeats him by decapitating him. Obviously therefore if Drazhar comes back, it cements his identity as a Phoenix Lord, possibly Arhra or a replacement for Arhra.

I hate that first part so much.

**Amishprn86**

The fluff doesn't match the rules at all for some reason for Ynnari, yes they made some characters Ynnari followers but didn't allow them to be so in the rules. Just another example that GW doesn't know what they are doing with Ynnari.

**pm713**

Amishprn86 wrote:
The fluff doesn't match the rules at all for some reason for Ynnari, yes they made some characters Ynnari followers but didn't allow them to be so in the rules. Just another example that GW doesn't know what they are doing with Ynnari.

Tends to happen when you make it up as you go but struggle to make up anything decent.

**Apple fox**

pm713 wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
The fluff doesn't match the rules at all for some reason for Ynnari, yes they made some characters Ynnari followers but didn't allow them to be so in the rules. Just another example that GW doesn't know what they are doing with Ynnari.

Tends to happen when you make it up as you go but struggle to make up anything decent.

I cannot tell if the creative really want Ynarri to be a thing but management have put a stop to it due to poor reception or just the creative team completely at a loss for anything eldar at all. Outside of liking the models, rules when they where good. They feel like they only matter to pop up and be redundant part of the eldar story and take craftworld models. Like they did not trust that there was enough dark eldar players any more for the HQ choices that seem to need.

**Elbows**

Ynnari are simply a mess. Weak storyline, exceptionally weak attempt to create a new faction using...three models....very poor attempt at separating them from other Eldar. It's just a really gak, lazy attempt.

**Marin**

Burnage wrote:
vipoid wrote:
Imateria wrote:
Points drops on the characters, the strat that gives Incubi SfD went down to 1CP and the strat that gives you +1A if you have Craftworlds, Harlequins and Drukhari in your army went up to 2CP. I think thats it.

Also Word of the Phoenix has been nerfed into the ground.

It's not that bad. It didn't deserve a nerf but it still heals characters well.

I disagree, that was spell i was planning to build army around. Now it`s to unreliable to depend on it, it was totally unleaded nerf.
Also they changed the locked triumvirate warlord traits.

**Amishprn86**

I thought the WD already locked the WL traits for the named Ynnari characters?

Edit: Just looked, thats how the WD was, what did it change? (my book was left at the shop)

**grouchoben**

Ynnead got a compulsory warlord trait nerf.
The extremely hard to pull off +1A strat was nerfed up to 2CP - this within months of every single SM unit being given +1A for free.
Word of the Phoenix got nerfed, is now trash.
They can't take any of the new exarch powers in the box.
They can't take either of the new character sculpts in the box, despite one of them actually being a Ynnari character in the fluff now.

Their characters dropped by a total of 114pts, which is good.

Over all I'd rate the release as a wash: Bringing the characters down to a more realistic points cost is good, although none of them are a 'good deal'. The nerfs were limited but utterly uncalled for.

**Karhedron**

When the brought back Bobby G, they had a plan for Marines going forwards in the shape of Primaris. Like it or not, there was a plan.

With Ynnari, they picked up on the Ynnead story thread but now seem to have no clear idea of where to go with it.