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 vict0988 wrote:


Why the hate for PK? Because it's the premium melee weapon for a melee HQ and that means it needs a relatively high price to avoid punishing people that build their Warboss differently, just like the SM thunder hammer needed a premium price on Captains. Necron HQs are not melee HQs, they are support HQs, any melee ability they have is secondary which is why people don't universally build Lords and Overlords with warscythes but instead often go for the cheapest weapon available, where people universally take PK for their 4+ A Orks. But mostly the nerf to PK Warbosses is actually because of KK, when I suggested nerfing it in another thread people gave me gak for not knowing the Ork struggle. How good is KK compared to the Necron Voidreaper? Same damage buff from 2->3 and D3->3. Voidreaper wounds non-VEHICLE models on 2+, KK re-rolls failed wound rolls at all times. I'd say the KK comes out on top, but KK also adds +1 to hit rolls, making it quite a bit better. So Warboss gets a nerf and you can have your buffs to your other relics and be forced to go relic or go home with your Warboss. Thinking about it I actually think Destroyer Lords need to pay more for warscythes because they are dedicated fighter characters.

Building their warboss differently? There is only one other melee option for a warboss and it's the big choppa. The only reason I would ever take the BC is to keep the warboss as cheap as possible or to use Headwoppa's killchoppa to try and use MW's to get around a unit's invlun saves. In any case it is already priced at a premium, the PK costs 4 more points than a PF and it has the exact same stat line.

And the voidreaper/voidscythe argument is pretty weak. A voidscythe is a better thunderhammer at a 20 point discount. it has SX2 AP-4 and 3 damage stock and are -1 to hit like a thunderhammer. With voidreaper you get the same thing but are now hitting on 2+ and wounding on 2+ as long as you don't attack a vehicle so you should be using it to hunt characters/MC's instead of vehicles. I think most Ork players would love to pay 20 points to be able to take a thunderhammer on their warboss.

The reason why people were giving you grief in the other thread is because a Warboss with KK is how the warboss used to be in combat in earlier editions. They were fairly tough and would wreck almost anything they got into combat with. Compare that to a stock warboss now and it's almost laughable, they just bounce off most hard targets without doing any real damage.

 vict0988 wrote:

Good Ork players more or less unanimously disagree AFAIK, what GT did you win with your big choppa Warboss again? Have you at least won a couple of RTTs with them? Can you refer me to three lists (piloted by any player) in 2019 that topped a GT with a big choppa Warboss?

? I feel like we are having a language barrier issue here.

The thunderhammer was never too good on the basic Captain, and never an option for a Lieutenant, the nerf was only meant for Bike and Jump Captains. As I mentioned the voidscythe isn't taken because Overlords are M5 support characters, CCBs and Destroyer Lords cannot take them. Orks cannot take thunder hammers though, it's a rarely taken option for a support character with M5 and not the most common option for a melee character.

The only reason I brought up the thunderhammer is because you were saying the voidscythe/voidreaper are PK equivalents. I was saying that they are comparable to the KK because what they really are is a cheap thunderhammer equivalent. I wasn't making the arguement that overlords are a good CC unit.

Voidreaper is S7 D2 regardless of whether you take it as an upgrade for a warscythe or a side-grade for a voidscythe.

I'm literally staring at the codex voidreaper and it is only S7 when attacking a unit with the VEHICLE keyword. It is also always 3 damage. You have either been playing it wrong for all of 8th or are deliberately lying to try and bolster your argument.

Well this ain't 7th and thank god for that, the Warboss is just as good at hitting things as other melee fighters, he doesn't need an OP relic any more than other factions do. But go back and play 7th, I'm sure you'll have great fun against invisible daemon/bark/seer stars and infinite daemons, unkillable robot hordes that fry your vehicles in no time etc. etc. Vehicles getting popped by a mean look was just how things worked back then.

I've never played 7th and you are just deflecting from the argument.

How is it false equivalence? I only want to nerf the OP Ork units and I want to buff the UP ones, just because you have a victim complex and you don't know how to read does not mean I haven't answered the arguments made in the thread. I've said three times why I think OP needs to rework his idea. Because his one-size-fits-all Warboss does not fit every Warboss in the 40k universe.

The original premise of the thread was that Warbosses are currently glasscannons that don't match their fluff since they only have a 4+ save and no invuln to keep them from getting instagibbed like most HQ's. You were the one who derailed the thread by saying that since it was theoretically possible to a knight to get one-shot by a relic PK warboss with a lot of support in very specific scenario that they were fine as they are compared to the knights durability.

why aren't you running a Warboss in Mega-armour?

Because it is an index option that doesn't have a kit, they are extremely slow so you still need to da jump/tellyport them in, and they are significantly more expensive than a standard warboss. Gaining 2 armor, 1W, and losing an inch of movement just isn't worth it.