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Excuse this post if it's been beaten to death; tried the search feature and nothing related came up.

Were the points decreases for tactical marines and the like in the new sm codex extended to non-codex marines (BA, DA, SW)? Seems like a simple extension, but didn't see it present anywhere in the docs from Warhammer Community. Do you think they'll just wait until CA2019 drops around December? Would you frown upon writing Blood Angels or Space Wolf lists that calculate using the updated points values?

Thanks!

No. Unless a point value was changed in the PDF update for each non-codex chapter it is unchanged from CA2018.

If they happen it will be chapter approved.

As-is, SW,BA,DA and even Chaos Marines pay 1ppm more than Codex: Marines and don't even have access to Combat Doctrine. So they pay more for an inferior unit for....reasons

In order to fix this grievous oversight, Chapter Approved needs to either:
A) Reduce basic Marines in all those books to 11ppm (maybe even 10ppm) or
B) Reduce basic Marines to 12ppm and give those books Combat Doctrines

-

 Galef wrote:
As-is, SW,BA,DA and even Chaos Marines pay 1ppm more than Codex: Marines and don't even have access to Combat Doctrine. So they pay more for an inferior unit for....reasons

In order to fix this grievous oversight, Chapter Approved needs to either:
A) Reduce basic Marines in all those books to 11ppm (maybe even 10ppm) or
B) Reduce basic Marines to 12ppm and give those books Combat Doctrines

-

Hard to say what GW plans for BA/DA/SW. I'd expect 12 point sin CA and then some form of doctrines next year.

That or they doctrine everybody like they did with stratagems in the first CA, but that would be utter chaos and impossible for them to have play tested.

As I suspected, thanks for the replies.

I wonder if GW will leave combat doctrines to Codex: SM and provide some other "amendment" for the Non-Codex chapters in order to give players enough reasoning to play 'Nilla marines. I'll eat my words, salt, skepticism, and even my shoes if they drop something on DA, BA, SW before Q2 of 2020. Still, loyal to the end. *puts on blinders*

 Galef wrote:
In order to fix this grievous oversight, Chapter Approved needs to either:
A) Reduce basic Marines in all those books to 11ppm (maybe even 10ppm) or
B) Reduce basic Marines to 12ppm and give those books Combat Doctrines

GW really need to double the cost of everything in order to give themselves some space to move without everything being a race to the bottom.

You want the Angels fixed? Too bad, get consolidated or don't complain.

Chaos Marines need a whole frickin rework because they're just Spiky Marines as is.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You want the Angels fixed? Too bad, get consolidated or don't complain.
Chaos Marines need a whole frickin rework because they're just Spiky Marines as is.

Wouldn't it make more sense to consolidate all the chaos marine stuff too? Just cram it back into a single book and set the line aside for a few years while the xenos and subfaction armies get some new models and rules?

A.T. wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You want the Angels fixed? Too bad, get consolidated or don't complain.
Chaos Marines need a whole frickin rework because they're just Spiky Marines as is.

Wouldn't it make more sense to consolidate all the chaos marine stuff too? Just cram it back into a single book and set the line aside for a few years while the xenos and subfaction armies get some new models and rules?

Yes, yes it would.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You want the Angels fixed? Too bad, get consolidated or don't complain.
Chaos Marines need a whole frickin rework because they're just Spiky Marines as is.

Wouldn't it make more sense to consolidate all the chaos marine stuff too? Just cram it back into a single book and set the line aside for a few years while the xenos and subfaction armies get some new models and rules?

Yes, yes it would.

It would for Renegade Chapters, yeah absolutely.

Legions though just need a whole fething rework because GW messes up each time somehow outside 3rd.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You want the Angels fixed? Too bad, get consolidated or don't complain.
Chaos Marines need a whole frickin rework because they're just Spiky Marines as is.

Wouldn't it make more sense to consolidate all the chaos marine stuff too? Just cram it back into a single book and set the line aside for a few years while the xenos and subfaction armies get some new models and rules?

Yes, yes it would.

It would for Renegade Chapters, yeah absolutely.

Legions though just need a whole fething rework because GW messes up each time somehow outside 3rd.

Nope. I see no reason why non-Codex compliant Chapters need their own snowflake codexes nor why certain Legions deserve the same. It's bloat for the sake of bloat.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You want the Angels fixed? Too bad, get consolidated or don't complain.
Chaos Marines need a whole frickin rework because they're just Spiky Marines as is.

Wouldn't it make more sense to consolidate all the chaos marine stuff too? Just cram it back into a single book and set the line aside for a few years while the xenos and subfaction armies get some new models and rules?

Yes, yes it would.

It would for Renegade Chapters, yeah absolutely.

Legions though just need a whole fething rework because GW messes up each time somehow outside 3rd.

Nope. I see no reason why non-Codex compliant Chapters need their own snowflake codexes nor why certain Legions deserve the same. It's bloat for the sake of bloat.

If you mean consolidating Death Guard and Thousand Sons into the CSM codex proper, then I'm in agreement.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You want the Angels fixed? Too bad, get consolidated or don't complain.
Chaos Marines need a whole frickin rework because they're just Spiky Marines as is.

Wouldn't it make more sense to consolidate all the chaos marine stuff too? Just cram it back into a single book and set the line aside for a few years while the xenos and subfaction armies get some new models and rules?

Yes, yes it would.

It would for Renegade Chapters, yeah absolutely.

Legions though just need a whole fething rework because GW messes up each time somehow outside 3rd.

Nope. I see no reason why non-Codex compliant Chapters need their own snowflake codexes nor why certain Legions deserve the same. It's bloat for the sake of bloat.

If you mean consolidating Death Guard and Thousand Sons into the CSM codex proper, then I'm in agreement.

I mean exactly that, glad we're in agreement!

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You want the Angels fixed? Too bad, get consolidated or don't complain.
Chaos Marines need a whole frickin rework because they're just Spiky Marines as is.

Wouldn't it make more sense to consolidate all the chaos marine stuff too? Just cram it back into a single book and set the line aside for a few years while the xenos and subfaction armies get some new models and rules?

Yes, yes it would.

It would for Renegade Chapters, yeah absolutely.

Legions though just need a whole fething rework because GW messes up each time somehow outside 3rd.

Nope. I see no reason why non-Codex compliant Chapters need their own snowflake codexes nor why certain Legions deserve the same. It's bloat for the sake of bloat.

If you mean consolidating Death Guard and Thousand Sons into the CSM codex proper, then I'm in agreement.

I mean exactly that, glad we're in agreement!

It wouldn't be terribly hard for Thousand Sons to get the consolidation. Death Guard would be slightly harder but it isn't impossible.

I really don't think it would be that hard to consolidate any of the Chaos Legions back into one Codex. Just allow each option to be taken normally (ie. Plagueburst Crawler with Thousand Sons, next to Noise Marines, ect.), just have the buffs from models be linked to what Mark of Chaos they have.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I really don't think it would be that hard to consolidate any of the Chaos Legions back into one Codex. Just allow each option to be taken normally (ie. Plagueburst Crawler with Thousand Sons, next to Noise Marines, ect.), just have the buffs from models be linked to what Mark of Chaos they have.

If this is what happens they need to consolidate the loyalists too. The idea that CSM all get shafted into one book while Loyalists get to express their individuality is utter crap.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Nope. I see no reason why non-Codex compliant Chapters need their own snowflake codexes nor why certain Legions deserve the same. It's bloat for the sake of bloat.

how about having a really bad codex, is that reason enough to want it updated?

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I really don't think it would be that hard to consolidate any of the Chaos Legions back into one Codex. Just allow each option to be taken normally (ie. Plagueburst Crawler with Thousand Sons, next to Noise Marines, ect.), just have the buffs from models be linked to what Mark of Chaos they have.

If this is what happens they need to consolidate the loyalists too. The idea that CSM all get shafted into one book while Loyalists get to express their individuality is utter crap.

Maybe the Plagueburst can stay unique to Death Guard but the flying lawnmower thing should be relegated to anything that can take Nurgle units, as their big brothers are able to be taken anywhere else.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I really don't think it would be that hard to consolidate any of the Chaos Legions back into one Codex. Just allow each option to be taken normally (ie. Plagueburst Crawler with Thousand Sons, next to Noise Marines, ect.), just have the buffs from models be linked to what Mark of Chaos they have.

If this is what happens they need to consolidate the loyalists too. The idea that CSM all get shafted into one book while Loyalists get to express their individuality is utter crap.

It really wouldn't bother me one bit if that happened to Loyalists as well.

Karol wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Nope. I see no reason why non-Codex compliant Chapters need their own snowflake codexes nor why certain Legions deserve the same. It's bloat for the sake of bloat.

how about having a really bad codex, is that reason enough to want it updated?

They could, should and hopefully will update them with a half page pdf .... same with Chaos marines and then do something other than Marines for five fethng minutes

You know, GW could make 1 book. And then make the lists for the Subfactions with their respective units and general units affected by specific traits.

E.G You get the general all faction units. Behind that you get subfaction ones and the rules to run the subfaction and or how to adapt general units into subfaction ones (chaos lord of DG get's 5+++ and T5 finnally?)

That wouldn't be that hard.

Of course the base book would be a tad more expensive, but frankly i'd rather buy 1 book for 50$ and am not forced to buy 3 Seperate ones for 25$ each but he, that's just me.
Not to mention carrying around is also nicer.

Yawn with the same old marine consolidation posts. Change the record.

 Elhazard wrote:
I wonder if GW will leave combat doctrines to Codex: SM and provide some other "amendment" for the Non-Codex chapters in order to give players enough reasoning to play 'Nilla marines. I'll eat my words, salt, skepticism, and even my shoes if they drop something on DA, BA, SW before Q2 of 2020. Still, loyal to the end. *puts on blinders*

There are 2 possible places BAs/DAs/SWs could get doctrines: Chapter Approved 2019 or in the appropriate Psychic Awakening book. We know that Blood Angels are in PA3 for example so it is not beyond the realms of possibility that their Doctrines will be in there.

Of course this is GW and we all know that hope is just the first step on the road to disappointment.

Except they're not in the Codex Marines and therefore shouldn't get any Doctrines.

Isn't that a big handicap though? The doctrins are like a whole set of separate rules. To not have them, the other marines would have to have some sort of other mechanics or rules to equalize, like tau have for their lack of psyschic phase.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You want the Angels fixed? Too bad, get consolidated or don't complain.
Chaos Marines need a whole frickin rework because they're just Spiky Marines as is.

Wouldn't it make more sense to consolidate all the chaos marine stuff too? Just cram it back into a single book and set the line aside for a few years while the xenos and subfaction armies get some new models and rules?

Yes, yes it would.

It would for Renegade Chapters, yeah absolutely.

Legions though just need a whole fething rework because GW messes up each time somehow outside 3rd.

Nope. I see no reason why non-Codex compliant Chapters need their own snowflake codexes nor why certain Legions deserve the same. It's bloat for the sake of bloat.

No, bloat for the sake of bloat is the Codex: SM supplements. At least my SW have pages actually filled with SW unique units.

Karol wrote:
Isn't that a big handicap though? The doctrins are like a whole set of separate rules. To not have them, the other marines would have to have some sort of other mechanics or rules to equalize, like tau have for their lack of psyschic phase.

Nah they just shouldn't get anything.

Huh. If you filter out the fluff and pages upon pages of pictures, and just focus on stat sheets...

You can put every Space Marine variant, every unit, and every rule in a book the size of the standard SM Codex and still have room to do some fluff on each of them.

Maybe GW should do that, and if people want more fluff- they could do something like 'recommended reading' for BL novels for each of the factions.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Huh. If you filter out the fluff and pages upon pages of pictures, and just focus on stat sheets...

You can put every Space Marine variant, every unit, and every rule in a book the size of the standard SM Codex and still have room to do some fluff on each of them.

Maybe GW should do that, and if people want more fluff- they could do something like 'recommended reading' for BL novels for each of the factions.

There are so many uneccesary duplicaitons of these sheets - how many seperate versions of the Lt are there when you could make a full page and cover all the options.

Many of the so called unique variations in various Chapters are the same - just a couple of weapon options or occassionally an actual rule that could be just be included on the data sheet for the base unit. However GW does love to pad out its army books......personally I would prefer more lore which is why that aspect of the supplements was quite pleasing.