Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 16:12:26
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Nasty Nob
|
I'm not going to make this a poll, because I have literally no idea what a reasonable range of answers would be and don't want to bias people by suggesting that a certain value is high or low. Ideally, I think it would be best to answer without reading other people's replies first.
I'd also be interested to see justifications for why you would choose a specific number, if it isn't just 'what feels right'. Are there any examples of CP being able to buy similar effects to something which is purchased with points? I know that there seems to be a general trend of 1 CP, 1 item of unique wargear and 1 Warlord Trait being considered roughly equivalent by GW, but I don't know of any examples of what a Warlord Trait or unique item would be worth in points either.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 16:16:57
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
That depends on what you can spend the CP on, so it would be different for every army. Stuff like, possible CP generation also makes an impact on the potential cost.
|
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 16:18:36
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
New Mexico, USA
|
It's impossible to answer because the things you can spend command points on vary wildly in usefulness. Some are amazing (shoot twice/fight twice strats) while others are situational or border on useless (crappy relics, command re-roll that also fails).
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 16:18:40
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws
Sioux Falls, SD
|
It’s really hard to quantify because some 1cp stratagems are worth 1 point and some are worth 50. A good example is things like 2cp to upgrade a captain to a chapter master so instead of rerolling 1s it’s reroll all, that’s easily 25 to 30 points worth(maybe more). While rerolling a single die per cp is probably only worth 3 points or less.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/11/15 16:20:07
Blood for the bloo... wait no, I meant for Sanguinius! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 16:22:02
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader
Bamberg / Erlangen
|
This is a very hard thing to nail down correctly, as the uses for Command Points vary so greatly.
Re-rolling a single die can win you the game, or it could be a complete waste.
On the other hand you can buy all kinds of relics with it, but some are clearly more useful than others.
For relics at least you could look at earlier editions and see how many points they costed. For example Iron Hands had relics that ranged from 15 to 45 points.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 16:22:44
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Karol wrote:That depends on what you can spend the CP on, so it would be different for every army. Stuff like, possible CP generation also makes an impact on the potential cost.
This exactly. For old space marine codex, CP weren’t really worth much because the stratagems were terrible. Now they’re worth their weight in gold as the stratagems are huge force amplifiers for several lists.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 16:48:53
Subject: Re:How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
|
also consider you can buy a relic with a CP. some relics are insanely better then others, or at least would be worth more points.
|
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 16:55:03
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
|
I guess you can slap a price tag per / CP on faction levels cheapest possibility.
And yes bigger factions with soupability gain massively from that .
|
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 16:57:53
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
If you could just spend points on Command Points, I think they'd be worth about 25 points each. The question would then become "is this something I want to spend 25 points on?" and would factor a bit differently into how you value your units. For my Abberants, for example, I regularly spend 5 Command Points on them; 3 for a Perfect Ambush, 1 to make them Anointed Throng, and 1 to give them a better Feel no Pain for a turn. By this metric, they are now costing me 125 more points to use, but considering what they can take out, I often have felt that it's worth it.
What I really need to consider is the Biker-Bombers unit that spends 2CP to arrive outside 3" of an enemy, 1CP to throw all their bombs, and another 1CP to have those bombs be +1 to hit and +1 to wound. By this metric, that's an extra 100 points I'm spending on them, and then there are times where it's questionable as to whether or not I really got enough use of them (especially because I'm spending another nearly 100 points for the biker sniper to back them up).
|
Galef wrote:If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 17:03:58
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Screaming Shining Spear
|
It really is tricky, for example the two point strat to give maximum flamer shots on a squad of ten sternguard gives you almost twenty flamers (120 pts) worth of shots for the price of ten flamers (60 pts), technically combi flamers but for ease of illustration...
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 17:09:53
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Omnipotent Necron Overlord
|
CP might as well be thought of as free. They have no proportional cost in points. Some armies best units are HQ's and troops - for some they are their worst. So it is impossible to make a real estimate on their point value.
What is the value of making a 450 point unit shoot twice? Pff...in points it would probably be 150 points in weapon upgrades to double your shooting power. These issues of scaling are huge and have been serious problems through the edition.
|
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 17:17:54
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
If we take the Chapter Master stratagem as a baseline you can see the difference between a Deathwatch Captain and Watch Master is around 50 points, which puts the cost of a CP at around 25 points. Of course, the problem is that the real value of CPs varies wildly, which is why they're such a bad system, IMO. Their value is entirely dependent on your stratagems and stratagems are often priced badly in the first place.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 17:25:38
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
Douglasville, GA
|
As everyone has said, CP value is entirely dependent on what army and what Stratagems you got.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 18:17:05
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
|
In AoS, it's 50 points for an additional Command Point in your army list.
SG
|
40K - T'au Empire
Kill Team - T'au Empire, Death Guard
Warhammer Underworlds - Garrek’s Reavers
*** I only play for fun. I do not play competitively. *** |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 18:24:25
Subject: How much is a command point worth in points (the kind you pay for units with)?
|
 |
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
|
ServiceGames wrote:In AoS, it's 50 points for an additional Command Point in your army list.
SG
Which doesn't entirely translate. Sigmar gives everyone 1CP generated for free and then gives you an extra starting CP for formations, which have an extra cost associated with them, and for the cost as mentioned, so you can entirely split off the extra CP because you do have to pay points for all of them. In 40k you can't 'buy' CP without also buying models.
|
|
|
 |
 |
|