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Doesn't seem as bad as marines. Thoughts?

At the start of the battle, pick one of the following to be active or roll two dice to choose two at random. If you roll a duplicate you don’t get a second effect, but the second one counts as active for a stratagem that lets you roll into a new one later on. In either case they’re active until the end of the game.

Hand of the Emperor: Add +1 to advance and charge rolls

Spirit of the Martyr: 5+ when model dies means it can shoot with a ranged weapon or make one attack with one melee weapon

Aegis of the Emperor: +3 to Deny the Witch rolls

Divine Guidance: Unmodified 6 to wound from ranged weapon improve AP by 1

The Passion: Unmodified 6 to hit in combat scores 1 additional hit

Light of the Emperor: Re-roll Morale

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-sisters-of-battle-the-goonhammer-review/

The Passion is situationally good. Considering Miracle dice are considered unmodified it means you could have melta hits that explode on command.

Aegis is easily the best and will be the most common considering you can see what your opponent rolls and use Miracle Dice as a sort of 40k dispel scroll by just "noping" whatever power your opponent casts whenever you want. Like if the opponent rolls a 7 we can just pick a 5 from the pool and wish it away and thats assuming the unit isn't near a Dialogus who can increase the die value by one. It honestly doesn't look like Sisters will suffer from a shortage of miracle dice like people were worried they would so we'll have plenty to choose from and an actually effective way of Denying psychic powers which is as it should be.

I don't think stacking special rules on special rules necessarily makes the game deeper.

Since you need to ensure that the armies are balanced on the TT, it just ends up becoming power creep and more book keeping.

Nice rules, for sure better to have them, then not have them.

So you...roll them ? I thought I wouldn't see this kind of mechanics again. It's curious. And you get more because it's random ? Weird.

your roll two times or pick one.

 godardc wrote:
So you...roll them ? I thought I wouldn't see this kind of mechanics again. It's curious. And you get more because it's random ? Weird.

This is how the AdMech Canticles stuff works.
You could pick and lose access to it for the remainder of the game, or roll and potentially get the same Canticle two turns in a row.

The intent seems to be that you choosing it is a Big Deal so locking it out makes you have to think about when to use it, while having randomized ones makes you have a chance of whiffing.

Light of the Emperor is kind of bad but the rest have potential.

It will be interesting to see how the "pick one or roll two" thing winds up playing out in practice. I suspect that the option to pick the best rule based ln what you're facing is going to beat out picking two at random most of the time.

Also, there is a 1CP strat to either swap out your chosen "super doctrine" or one of the ones you rolled for in case you get a double.

The Newman wrote:
Light of the Emperor is kind of bad but the rest have potential.

It will be interesting to see how the "pick one or roll two" thing winds up playing out in practice. I suspect that the option to pick the best rule based ln what you're facing is going to beat out picking two at random most of the time.

LOE gives a reason not to roll

Even if you roll LoE, you got Command Reroll AND the Stratagem to try for something better. Not a huge deal.

 Mr Morden wrote:

The Newman wrote:
Light of the Emperor is kind of bad but the rest have potential.

It will be interesting to see how the "pick one or roll two" thing winds up playing out in practice. I suspect that the option to pick the best rule based ln what you're facing is going to beat out picking two at random most of the time.

LOE gives a reason not to roll

More beneficial than you realise - a natural 1 gives you a miracle die, and last time I checked, auto pass means you can still roll to fish for a 1...

Interestingly it seems like you'll want to kill whole squads of sisters instead of allowing a morale roll. Especially if they have a 1 in their miracle dice pool.

Almost like Necrons.

it's not abd, although I'd proably rather have a knight or something.

BrianDavion wrote:
it's not abd, although I'd proably rather have a knight or something.

I prefer the rites, and that's the nice part.

They are at the level that going soup or not is a choice.

They're...okay. It's extremely unfortunate that about half of them are best with melee units but only 2 melee units in the book actually get to use them(the weakest one and repentia).

They're there to make you feel less like you're handicapping yourself to go full sisters, not to keep you from souping.

Spoletta wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
it's not abd, although I'd proably rather have a knight or something.

I prefer the rites, and that's the nice part.

They are at the level that going soup or not is a choice.

In competitive net listing terms, the Knight is better. So soup isn't a choice. I want this statement to be proven wrong, but I don't realistically see it. Warp, loyal 32 is probably more useful to a sister's army now. Ensuring you have the CPs for the Stratagems you want to use and the points to build the core of you army.

Still, there interesting and I look forward to trying things with them.

Lammia wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
it's not abd, although I'd proably rather have a knight or something.

I prefer the rites, and that's the nice part.

They are at the level that going soup or not is a choice.

In competitive net listing terms, the Knight is better. So soup isn't a choice. I want this statement to be proven wrong, but I don't realistically see it. Warp, loyal 32 is probably more useful to a sister's army now. Ensuring you have the CPs for the Stratagems you want to use and the points to build the core of you army.

Still, there interesting and I look forward to trying things with them.

it really highlights the Marine problem, anything good eneugh to make soup a clear "meh don't need" is proably going to be insanely powerful

 Sim-Life wrote:
The Passion is situationally good. Considering Miracle dice are considered unmodified it means you could have melta hits that explode on command.

Aegis is easily the best and will be the most common considering you can see what your opponent rolls and use Miracle Dice as a sort of 40k dispel scroll by just "noping" whatever power your opponent casts whenever you want. Like if the opponent rolls a 7 we can just pick a 5 from the pool and wish it away and thats assuming the unit isn't near a Dialogus who can increase the die value by one. It honestly doesn't look like Sisters will suffer from a shortage of miracle dice like people were worried they would so we'll have plenty to choose from and an actually effective way of Denying psychic powers which is as it should be.

Passion only work on melee and you really don't want to be spending miracle dice on denies, though it's not a bad usage sister's need A LOT of help actually killing anything, and it's still impossible to deny psychic powers if they roll higher than 8 for sisters that don't specifically kit out to stop psykers.

Although, if you REALLY want to stop psykers in a soup army, a minimum Battalion with a Canoness with a null rod, the Brazier of holy fire, and Greyfax will put every psyker within 18 of the canoness at -3 and allows Grey fax 2 denies at +1 for a net 4 in your favor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lammia wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
it's not abd, although I'd proably rather have a knight or something.

I prefer the rites, and that's the nice part.

They are at the level that going soup or not is a choice.

In competitive net listing terms, the Knight is better. So soup isn't a choice. I want this statement to be proven wrong, but I don't realistically see it. Warp, loyal 32 is probably more useful to a sister's army now. Ensuring you have the CPs for the Stratagems you want to use and the points to build the core of you army.

Still, there interesting and I look forward to trying things with them.

Loyal 32 is actually less useful than the the Faithful 17 these days thanks to whirlwinds and thunderfire cannons. Having SOME save on your chaff is more useful than just raw wounds against IF and a min battalion of sisters is still only 218 points. Add in the fact that Valorous heart with an imagifier can cancel out Thunderfire cannons AP-2, and I can't really see a good reason to take the loyal 32 in a Soup army, let alone a Sisters one.

There's debate to be had about the knight being better too. Part of playing non-marine armies at this point is playing things people don't really know the best way to deal with. Everyone knows how to fight a knight, not that many people have any fething idea what sisters do.

I can attest to this with my rubric horde army
Nobody knows how to handle the All is Dust properly, and thier backfield removals keep failing to it and the invul combined taking their expected results totally out of whack, while they keep underestimating just how dangerous a brick of 20 with VotLW can be even to a knight.

Being off meta is a trait of its own, it causes the enemy to make mistakes.

I mean, I don't expect Sisters to be on Meta. But I think more people are going to read/experience sisters. So I don't know 'they don't know what we're doing' is going to last as a layer of protection.

ERJAK wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
The Passion is situationally good. Considering Miracle dice are considered unmodified it means you could have melta hits that explode on command.

Aegis is easily the best and will be the most common considering you can see what your opponent rolls and use Miracle Dice as a sort of 40k dispel scroll by just "noping" whatever power your opponent casts whenever you want. Like if the opponent rolls a 7 we can just pick a 5 from the pool and wish it away and thats assuming the unit isn't near a Dialogus who can increase the die value by one. It honestly doesn't look like Sisters will suffer from a shortage of miracle dice like people were worried they would so we'll have plenty to choose from and an actually effective way of Denying psychic powers which is as it should be.

Passion only work on melee and you really don't want to be spending miracle dice on denies, though it's not a bad usage sister's need A LOT of help actually killing anything, and it's still impossible to deny psychic powers if they roll higher than 8 for sisters that don't specifically kit out to stop psykers.

Although, if you REALLY want to stop psykers in a soup army, a minimum Battalion with a Canoness with a null rod, the Brazier of holy fire, and Greyfax will put every psyker within 18 of the canoness at -3 and allows Grey fax 2 denies at +1 for a net 4 in your favor.

Your opinion on the codex is just so hyperbolically negative that
I'm not sure if I should reply to you seriously.

 Sim-Life wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
The Passion is situationally good. Considering Miracle dice are considered unmodified it means you could have melta hits that explode on command.

Aegis is easily the best and will be the most common considering you can see what your opponent rolls and use Miracle Dice as a sort of 40k dispel scroll by just "noping" whatever power your opponent casts whenever you want. Like if the opponent rolls a 7 we can just pick a 5 from the pool and wish it away and thats assuming the unit isn't near a Dialogus who can increase the die value by one. It honestly doesn't look like Sisters will suffer from a shortage of miracle dice like people were worried they would so we'll have plenty to choose from and an actually effective way of Denying psychic powers which is as it should be.

Passion only work on melee and you really don't want to be spending miracle dice on denies, though it's not a bad usage sister's need A LOT of help actually killing anything, and it's still impossible to deny psychic powers if they roll higher than 8 for sisters that don't specifically kit out to stop psykers.

Although, if you REALLY want to stop psykers in a soup army, a minimum Battalion with a Canoness with a null rod, the Brazier of holy fire, and Greyfax will put every psyker within 18 of the canoness at -3 and allows Grey fax 2 denies at +1 for a net 4 in your favor.

Your opinion on the codex is just so hyperbolically negative that
I'm not sure if I should reply to you seriously.

Is he wrong though?

I mean, +3 to deny is *kind of* like having a 2nd D6, except permanently below average and un-miracle-dice-able.

The Passion doesn't work on guns, so you get 2 strength 3 hits instead of one on a 6. Terrifying; truly Iron Hands will have something to fear.

 godardc wrote:
So you...roll them ? I thought I wouldn't see this kind of mechanics again. It's curious. And you get more because it's random ? Weird.

At least you can see more than 1-2 of them. Not like with wl traits, relics and spells where you know what he uses just by factions

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
The Passion is situationally good. Considering Miracle dice are considered unmodified it means you could have melta hits that explode on command.

Aegis is easily the best and will be the most common considering you can see what your opponent rolls and use Miracle Dice as a sort of 40k dispel scroll by just "noping" whatever power your opponent casts whenever you want. Like if the opponent rolls a 7 we can just pick a 5 from the pool and wish it away and thats assuming the unit isn't near a Dialogus who can increase the die value by one. It honestly doesn't look like Sisters will suffer from a shortage of miracle dice like people were worried they would so we'll have plenty to choose from and an actually effective way of Denying psychic powers which is as it should be.

Passion only work on melee and you really don't want to be spending miracle dice on denies, though it's not a bad usage sister's need A LOT of help actually killing anything, and it's still impossible to deny psychic powers if they roll higher than 8 for sisters that don't specifically kit out to stop psykers.

Although, if you REALLY want to stop psykers in a soup army, a minimum Battalion with a Canoness with a null rod, the Brazier of holy fire, and Greyfax will put every psyker within 18 of the canoness at -3 and allows Grey fax 2 denies at +1 for a net 4 in your favor.

Your opinion on the codex is just so hyperbolically negative that
I'm not sure if I should reply to you seriously.

Is he wrong though?

I mean, +3 to deny is *kind of* like having a 2nd D6, except permanently below average and un-miracle-dice-able.

The Passion doesn't work on guns, so you get 2 strength 3 hits instead of one on a 6. Terrifying; truly Iron Hands will have something to fear.

If you build for it, the negative + bonus can actually make it even to favorable that you succeed against all but the most powerful psykers. For an army wide ability, that's actually very strong. Plus, you can ignore all but the kit of one canoness in match ups you're not using it.

Lammia wrote:
If you build for it, the negative + bonus can actually make it even to favorable that you succeed against all but the most powerful psykers. For an army wide ability, that's actually very strong. Plus, you can ignore all but the kit of one canoness in match ups you're not using it.

Which is something ERJACK called out specifically in his post before getting called 'hyperbolically negative'.

So I guess he isn't wrong then?

People that looks at the +3 in isolation is just blind.

You can chose the +3 plus the -2 in 18" relic AFTER you know your opponent.

They are extremely powerfull tools that you'll always be able to pick ONLY when you need them, to shut down nearly a whole psychic heavy army.

 Galas wrote:
People that looks at the +3 in isolation is just blind.

You can chose the +3 plus the -2 in 18" relic AFTER you know your opponent.

They are extremely powerfull tools that you'll always be able to pick ONLY when you need them, to shut down nearly a whole psychic heavy army.

Whether or not you can pick relics/rites before the game is subject to change depending on the event you are attending and local meta style.

For example, locally we write all our relics into our lists ahead of time for the local campaign, but we can write lists on the fly for regular PUGs.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Lammia wrote:
If you build for it, the negative + bonus can actually make it even to favorable that you succeed against all but the most powerful psykers. For an army wide ability, that's actually very strong. Plus, you can ignore all but the kit of one canoness in match ups you're not using it.

Which is something ERJACK called out specifically in his post before getting called 'hyperbolically negative'.

So I guess he isn't wrong then?

I didn't say he was wrong, I just said its hard to take him seriously when he says stuff like the Gemini Superior are so bad he wouldn't take them for free. Or that 9pts for a Battle Sister is over-priced.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Lammia wrote:
If you build for it, the negative + bonus can actually make it even to favorable that you succeed against all but the most powerful psykers. For an army wide ability, that's actually very strong. Plus, you can ignore all but the kit of one canoness in match ups you're not using it.

Which is something ERJACK called out specifically in his post before getting called 'hyperbolically negative'.

So I guess he isn't wrong then?

I didn't say he was wrong, I just said its hard to take him seriously when he says stuff like the Gemini Superior are so bad he wouldn't take them for free. Or that 9pts for a Battle Sister is over-priced.

Methinks you should reply to a thread based on what is in the thread, based on what is going on elsewhere.

His post in this thread warranted a sensible reply, I think. There are some limitations with these "super doctrines" that need to be pointed out.