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Hey everyone ,

Been looking at possibly doing Adeptus Custodes force to take to some events next year, I normally try not to soup and stick to mono armies,

for you custodes players or anyone with knowledge of the army, how are they doing currently?, and can they work as a pure force?

Cheers

They got marginally better with some of the points drops in CA 2019, but as a mono force they are still incredibly reliant on FW models to give them the variety and firepower they need to do well in missions. Sagittarum Guard, for example, give you backfield presence with actually decent firepower rather than wasting a 3 man custodian guard babysitting an objective and functionally doing nothing most of the game. The Telemon and one of their hover tanks still do a lot of the heavy lifting for shooting. The Vertus Praetors and Shield Captains on Jetbikes are the most competitive units in the main codex, due to their sheer resilience and mobility. So unless you want to fork offer significant coin for FW models, I wouldn't suggest it.

People who just use the adeptus custodes dex normally soup them with Guard so they can have CP batteries to actually make the most of their stratagems.

I find they're very hit-or-miss; you rely on FW models to be able to do any damage outside of melee, but if you do you have no screens so when the GSC or the Knight-Gallants come calling they get to just sort of walk into your big expensive models and remove them from play.

You can play pure Custodes but if you're trying to play tournaments you probably shouldn't.

yh I mean, I dont mind paying the fw prices, and would prefer to play them pure, but if its just gonna get trounced every game, id like to be able to compete

The errata to the Caladus Grav Tank yanked the teeth out of the Custodes. The Caladus was really, really OP though and needed it. Sorry if you bought three of them. If you would have asked this question six months ago, you would have received a resounding yes. Now? With the Space Marines on the rise and the nerfs to Custodies... they are not an "auto win" army now by any stretch of the imagination.

For fun play, heck yeah! The Emperor's Golden Finest are just peaches and cream. For competitive play, not so much. You should be looking at an IG detachment for some CP's and guys to sit on objectives to get the most out of the army as Grimskul suggests, and you'll have more than a few Forge World models/units in the army. Like the Caladus, which is still an excellent tank, just not OP like it was. Oh, and if you really want to hear people moan and groan while gnashing their teeth, bring an Ares Gunship.

As a side note, if you play 30K/Horus Heresy, Custodes are at just about the top of the list for play, as they have the best Dreadnought, the best tank, and the best Primarch Killer (who isn't a Primarch himself) in the game.

I came up with the following list, just after a quick run through of the book and battlescribe, apologies if this can't be posted in this thread, feel free to delete it if so.

(Its overpointed, but with the ca changes should be about 50pts under).

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [106 PL, 8CP, 2,029pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Captain-General Trajann Valoris [10 PL, 185pts]

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Hurricane Bolter, Radiant Mantle, Warlord
. Auric Aquilis

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 161pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Guardian Spear

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 161pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Guardian Spear

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 161pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Guardian Spear

+ Elites +

Allarus Custodians [13 PL, 237pts]
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe

Vexillus Praetor [6 PL, 122pts]: Guardian Spear, Vexilla Magnifica

+ Fast Attack +

Pallas Grav-Attack [5 PL, 100pts]: Twin Arachnus Blaze Cannon

Pallas Grav-Attack [5 PL, 100pts]: Twin Arachnus Blaze Cannon

Vertus Praetors [20 PL, 360pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought [14 PL, 282pts]: Arachnus Storm Cannon, Arachnus Storm Cannon, Spiculus Bolt Launcher

Drop the pallas, and give yourself a Calladius. They are wondrously good at deleting Nu-marines with their Accelerator cannons. Also, they Distraction Carnifex that is your Telemon will likely die on the first turn, so hang back with the Tank and Trajann and rip his lighter stuff to pieces.

I'd put some thought into swapping those custodian guard squads for sagittarum guard squads.
They're a custodes troop unit packing what are basically heavy bolters combi'd with a short ranged S5 -3 D3 profile.
They're much better than the normal custodian guard squads for sitting on objectives, as they can still contribute some ranged firepower to the battle while doing so.

Custodes are not really Custodes in competitive play. Not as a mono-faction.

They have 5 units you'll see in competitive play.

DawnEagle Jetbike Captain
Trajann Valoris
Dawneagle Jetbikes
Caladius Grav Tanks.

Now, for more casual game play, the book opens up, and you can field a cool variety of units.

Anyone holding out hope that Custodes will see new rules in the next FAQ?

I recently got into looking over Custodes, but i feel like they need somekind of a hand. Pure Custodes are held back currently from what i can see, from a state of the current game, and issue with board control kind of thing. some of those match ups look really troublesome, especially without some shooting aide from FW or allies. as neat as they look and as fun as it is to tote hyper-elite armies in my mind (storage and transport), this is an era of more gun, and they don't have enough bodies for more gun, even if they are good at hitting with what they have.

ive already looked up means to kitbash the Aquilons and Saggitarium (though id like some ideas on that), and I REALLY like the look of the Pallas and calladius grav tanks, which kind of shocks me as i stumble on most vehicles in this game. normally i don't care for Dreadknoughts, but i even like theirs. but im iffy about building them, in part because of the resin involved in FW stuff, and i doubt you could viably custombuild those tanks... i need to look around more maybe

I hope something more shifts in their favor and soon. the point drops from CA2019 are somewhat a help, but something more is needed, i think. maybe new drops or rules will come for them soon. where they slated for PA at all?

A friend plays them mono in both HH and 40K. He does rely on some of the FW units to make them work properly. If he plays a casual game they can be quite good but against a serious opponent, they don't do so well. Not enough models on the table seems to be the problem.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone holding out hope that Custodes will see new rules in the next FAQ?

I doubt very much they will, however I'm anticipating when they apper in PA they'll get some love.

I've had good success with them in small games, 1000 pts or less. I can't imagine playing a competitive 2000 pt game with them, even 1500pts. But in small games, most armies don't have enough firepower to take you out or enough chaff to tarpit you. But as always, a few bad rolls can make your game go south very fast and you don't have enough CP to reroll everything.

I think the issue is that custodes are very good stats-wise, but don't have tactical flexibility (without CP or FW). In small games, no one has a lot of flexibility, so you play at an advantage. But past 1000pts, where people have more than 1 trick up their sleeve, you won't have any answers to a lot of things, and will no longer be able to brute force your way through them.

So, when it said "Here are some unit symbols that will be included in PA" I didn't see the Custodes symbol. Do they have a different one?

Second one on the second row, no?

will confirm, that's the custodes symbol. every codex is on that chart save one. and the one in this question is sisters of battle.

Since Custodes don't have any psychers I wasn't expecting too much from psychic awakening, but it would make sense to get some sort of psychic defense buff during this release.

Either roll sisters of silence into the custodes book as talons of the emperor army or give us a new vexilla banner that gives -2 to cast within 12" and some new strats.

Custodes also need more army trait addons to keepup with the rest of the armies being released and updated.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Since Custodes don't have any psychers I wasn't expecting too much from psychic awakening, but it would make sense to get some sort of psychic defense buff during this release.

Either roll sisters of silence into the custodes book as talons of the emperor army or give us a new vexilla banner that gives -2 to cast within 12" and some new strats.

Custodes also need more army trait addons to keepup with the rest of the armies being released and updated.

psykic awakening so far hasn't been suepr psyker tied.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Since Custodes don't have any psychers I wasn't expecting too much from psychic awakening, but it would make sense to get some sort of psychic defense buff during this release.

Either roll sisters of silence into the custodes book as talons of the emperor army or give us a new vexilla banner that gives -2 to cast within 12" and some new strats.

Custodes also need more army trait addons to keepup with the rest of the armies being released and updated.

Custodes are perfectly fine vs. Sisters and PA Nids or PA Eldar, etc.. They also have a deny-WL trait and can add a Culexus, an Inquisitor, etc..


Are they struggling against the totally off-kilter Nu-Marines like everybody? Sure. But that needs to be fixed with a serious Marine-correction

BrianDavion wrote:
will confirm, that's the custodes symbol. every codex is on that chart save one. and the one in this question is sisters of battle.

Wolves, ne?

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Since Custodes don't have any psychers I wasn't expecting too much from psychic awakening, but it would make sense to get some sort of psychic defense buff during this release.

Either roll sisters of silence into the custodes book as talons of the emperor army or give us a new vexilla banner that gives -2 to cast within 12" and some new strats.

Custodes also need more army trait addons to keepup with the rest of the armies being released and updated.

Custodes are perfectly fine vs. Sisters and PA Nids or PA Eldar, etc.. They also have a deny-WL trait and can add a Culexus, an Inquisitor, etc..


Are they struggling against the totally off-kilter Nu-Marines like everybody? Sure. But that needs to be fixed with a serious Marine-correction

Custodes struggle againgst marines, chaos of all types, dark eldar, harlequins, tau, and knights. Its an uphill battle againgst any of those factions no matter what they bring atm. Vehicle heavy necrons, ad-mech, AM, and orks can be a pain as well.

Slightly off-topic:
I'm looking for an imperial force for 2v2 team games where each side has 1500-2000 points.I want a small, cheap army which I can use to play with people who have factions that usually don't ally with orks or death guard.
Are custodes good allies for marines/admech/guard/GK if I stick with GW plastic? Or do I need to have FW fire support to play them?

Pure GW custodes feell absolutely like an incomplete army. I played them a ton but opening up to FW options has completely changed how I played my army.

Without FW you are just a bunch of angry bananas that want to reach meele but once they reach it is not like they can do much because a single screen completely negates them (Unless you spam bikers).

 Eihnlazer wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Since Custodes don't have any psychers I wasn't expecting too much from psychic awakening, but it would make sense to get some sort of psychic defense buff during this release.

Either roll sisters of silence into the custodes book as talons of the emperor army or give us a new vexilla banner that gives -2 to cast within 12" and some new strats.

Custodes also need more army trait addons to keepup with the rest of the armies being released and updated.

Custodes are perfectly fine vs. Sisters and PA Nids or PA Eldar, etc.. They also have a deny-WL trait and can add a Culexus, an Inquisitor, etc..


Are they struggling against the totally off-kilter Nu-Marines like everybody? Sure. But that needs to be fixed with a serious Marine-correction

Custodes struggle againgst marines, chaos of all types, dark eldar, harlequins, tau, and knights. Its an uphill battle againgst any of those factions no matter what they bring atm. Vehicle heavy necrons, ad-mech, AM, and orks can be a pain as well.

That's not what the stats say.


They have a nearly 60% win record vs. Astra Miltiarum, nearly 70% (!!!) win record vs. Chaos Space Marines and Tyranids, are about even vs. AdMech, beat Drukhari, pre-nerf GSC about 60% of the time and Imperial Knights still 57% of the time and vs. Tau 55% of the time.

They do lose pretty hard to Craftworld and Death Guard, and the Ork-matchup is slightly in the Orks favour, but that's about it.

If anything, in a world where Space Marines were to be brought back in line, Custodes probably could use a slight nerf or two.

Those stats are nice but aren't an accurate representation on where the faction sits. The few people that play custodes competitively are usually pretty good. They tend to get matched up against players that aren't as good till you get to the top tables. Also, I'm betting that those are including games from before the claudius nerf.

Sags really help a pure army, seriously. Even ignoring the rest of the FW options maybe bar a couple of tanks if you want them. Having a troop that can sit on an objective, ACTUALLY participate, and even still handle themselves in melee as necessary is good for such a low count model army.

 JohnnyHell wrote:


Second one on the second row, no?

I wonder if Custodes will be in the Armageddon book, or if they will be in the Tau book.

I can almost see them making a joke about a Custodes Shield captain facing off against Shadowsun, and the battle ending with both of them having a mutual respect. That, and they seem to slowly ramp up the Imperial members that the Tau face, with them being pretty pumped about killing a Chapter Master, maybe they will show what the Tau think of Custodes.

On the other hand, Custodes showing up on Armageddon in a call back to Ullanor since, you know, Armageddon is Ullanor, would be pretty great too.

the thing about Custodes stats is you have to question how they allied, if they did, did they use forgeworld extensively or not, which they often do, and so on.

Id love to see the lists marked custodes here, but considering how often i see custodes recommened in to ally mechanicus or guard just to cover backfield objectives and gain more command points, I wouldnt be surprised if the lists have to do with that.

The only good way to play footstodes is to teleport homer your terminators 3" away from your enemy using an advancing Vexilla Magnifica. 3 Command Points. Custodes bikes and tanks are very mobile and have the FLY keyboard, which opens he game up for a lot of shenanigans.