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Lists a unit that doesn't exist: Big Mek with Kustom Force Field

Deathwatch Troops Models Per Unit column is totally wrong (enjoy your 25 Biker units while you can).

Lists a points cost for the T'au Stimulant Injector despite the FAQ saying you can't take it anymore (this one I can handwave as for the 3 people still playing Indexhammer).

Genestealer Cult Neophyte Hybrids are 55 points per model (wat?).

And now for the pièce de résistance: Remember how in the SW Codex they messed up the unit sizes of Skyclaws and Swiftclaws, then fixed it, then had Chapter Approved 2018 revert it back to the original, wrong values, and then had to errata the errata? Well guess what, the exact same error from 2018 is in the 2019 book, proving that GW just copypasted the tables and didn't bother proofreading anything.

Are my standards unreasonable? Is it too much to expect that the big book of errata that GW have the nerve to charge people for shouldn't itself need errata?

Yes it's too much to expect the book to be absolutely FLAWLESS.

you count what 4 mistakes out of how many unit entries? two of which are just some legends based confusion, one of which is a classic spread sheet collum error (those mistakes are realllly easy to make) and one is just an "wtf" points valuer that may well be the intent. still let's assume they're all mistakes. this is hardly an ERROR RIDDLED book. error riddled would be a mistake every page or two. seriously, the fact that you call out 4 errors as "riddled" does indeed suggest you have unrealistic expectations.

The first one is likely for the future re-release of a Big Mek with KFF in plastic given that PA4 looks like something Ork related with Space Wolves. So that's hardly a valid complaint.

BrianDavion wrote:
Yes it's too much to expect the book to be absolutely FLAWLESS.

you count what 4 mistakes out of how many unit entries? two of which are just some legends based confusion, one of which is a classic spread sheet collum error (those mistakes are realllly easy to make) and one is just an "wtf" points valuer that may well be the intent. still let's assume they're all mistakes. this is hardly an ERROR RIDDLED book. error riddled would be a mistake every page or two. seriously, the fact that you call out 4 errors as "riddled" does indeed suggest you have unrealistic expectations.

Its not 4 mistakes. The SW stuff has mistakes on many units. That were made multiple times now. Yes some of these mistakes are easy to make, but they are also damn easy to spot if any amount of proof reading is done.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Yes it's too much to expect the book to be absolutely FLAWLESS.

you count what 4 mistakes out of how many unit entries? two of which are just some legends based confusion, one of which is a classic spread sheet collum error (those mistakes are realllly easy to make) and one is just an "wtf" points valuer that may well be the intent. still let's assume they're all mistakes. this is hardly an ERROR RIDDLED book. error riddled would be a mistake every page or two. seriously, the fact that you call out 4 errors as "riddled" does indeed suggest you have unrealistic expectations.

Its not 4 mistakes. The SW stuff has mistakes on many units. That were made multiple times now. Yes some of these mistakes are easy to make, but they are also damn easy to spot if any amount of proof reading is done.

I can accept that they made the mistake with the SW book, and then fixed it, fair enough.

But that exact same mistake has now happened in THREE different books. I don't understand how you can even do that by accident.

+Drukhari vehicle wargear totally missing
+Ogryns points increase likely meant for Bullgryns
+Gallant increase in Knights section but not in Admech section

I have not bought the previous Chapter Approveds and will not buy this one. Obvious lack of basic proofreading aside, point updates should be free and part of regular errata/faq updates to reflect the current meta, not a meta that existed 6+ months ago.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Yes it's too much to expect the book to be absolutely FLAWLESS.

you count what 4 mistakes out of how many unit entries? two of which are just some legends based confusion, one of which is a classic spread sheet collum error (those mistakes are realllly easy to make) and one is just an "wtf" points valuer that may well be the intent. still let's assume they're all mistakes. this is hardly an ERROR RIDDLED book. error riddled would be a mistake every page or two. seriously, the fact that you call out 4 errors as "riddled" does indeed suggest you have unrealistic expectations.

Its not 4 mistakes. The SW stuff has mistakes on many units. That were made multiple times now. Yes some of these mistakes are easy to make, but they are also damn easy to spot if any amount of proof reading is done.

I can accept that they made the mistake with the SW book, and then fixed it, fair enough.

But that exact same mistake has now happened in FOUR different books. I don't understand how you can even do that by accident.

I suspect the way they did it was they told the office interns to copy paste the spread sheets with point values over en masse, these interns where just low level flunkies doing a job (they may not eve have played 40k. we're talking likely folks from the office not their rules team) so the interns did this. the dev team then focused on the points values they wanted to actually CHANGE, thus stuff fell through the cracks.
this is just a guess but it makes sense, stuff C&Ped wasn't checked. I've seen errors like this made in officers too, the only reason those are caught is because it's vital for the collums to add up.

The errors are terrible in all honesty, but the Deathwatch one will make zero difference. You can't take all those extra models since the entry in the codex is very specific on what you can take. The entry in CA does not change this.

I honestly don't get how they keep screwing things up. I guess none of the increased staff includes editors yet. One day, we can hope and dream that they learn this fine art form and learn to proof read, make a list, check it twice, all of that.

Edit: I mean I expect them to not play test but the least they can do is write the books correctly the first time. It's frankly quite tragic GW has made vast erratas and erratas on erratas common place, so much so people defend them for it because it's their norm and we expect such high levels of failure from this fine company.

Another annoying instance of GW failing to copy/paste correctly, the recent Blood Bowl Coach’s Handbook was a great idea; a smaller sized manual with all of the updated rules, skills, and teams. Unfortunately it was riddled with errors that a simple proofreading by most people familiar with the game would have caught. Stats that had been the same for years were incorrectly changed and a faq/errata was issued soon after release. With the money GW is raking in these days, why they can’t hire basic proofreaders baffles and infuriates me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bloodbowl/comments/dirr6c/gws_new_head_coach_handbook_has_received_an/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=comments_view_all

Because you HAVE to have these books to play the game. It could be in crayon written by 3rd graders and people would still buy it. GW will never care about the quality of their books as long as they are required to play the game. There's no incentive and books are their highest money maker.

I think its proof that their "logbook" 16th Century model of distributing books of numbers is not working.

It's easy to guess how these mistakes were made - they simply cannot keep on top of their own ridiculous model. They've obviously not gone back and fixed the proofs of 2018 when they were erratad. When 2019 was released they copy and pasted the 2018 figures **without putting their own errata on**.

They expect customers to follow this system when they themselves are now confused by it.

Yeah part of the problem is GW have set the bar soooo so low in term of book/rules quality, this book can be considered a roaring success....

I think they have several teams working on different aspects of the books/rules who don't communicate to each other and whoever is in charge over all just doesn't care about a few complaints. As long as the sales figures look good at the management meeting...

The only thing that would get any kind of change is:

1. Boycot of future rules releases/products - unlikely as people are too lazy/care enough to get organised

2. A mass refund campaign where everyone asks for a refund as the book is riddled with mistakes and as such is not fit for purpose of being a "patch" - Again same problem as the first point.

3. Social media/email complaints - Everyone writes their complains and writes GW angry emails (maybe requesting refunds)

Other than that, its a case of really enjoying the turd sandwich you are being served and accepting it is what it is and imagine the turd sandwich is a juicy meatball marinara instead..

Maybe the faq will say something like "oh yeah fw, we totally forgot about that, here's some new points costs ".

4 we can talk about it on Dakka


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:
Yeah part of the problem is GW have set the bar soooo so low in term of book/rules quality, this book can be considered a roaring success....

I think they have several teams working on different aspects of the books/rules who don't communicate to each other and whoever is in charge over all just doesn't care about a few complaints. As long as the sales figures look good at the management meeting...

The only thing that would get any kind of change is:

1. Boycot of future rules releases/products - unlikely as people are too lazy/care enough to get organised

2. A mass refund campaign where everyone asks for a refund as the book is riddled with mistakes and as such is not fit for purpose of being a "patch" - Again same problem as the first point.

3. Social media/email complaints - Everyone writes their complains and writes GW angry emails (maybe requesting refunds)

Other than that, its a case of really enjoying the turd sandwich you are being served and accepting it is what it is and imagine the turd sandwich is a juicy meatball marinara instead..

 jeff white wrote:
4 we can talk about it on Dakka

he said actions that can produce change, talking about it on Dakka isn't going to effect change.

Nothing will make them change when they have a slew of devoted defenders who feel that this very large company should be held to such a low standard that we should except error after error in every single release and erratas for erratas. Coupled with, vague and poorly written rules that show despite the decades of the player base being unable to read their minds intent and more than willing to RAW every cheese loop hole, they just can't be bothered to tighten it up some.

People should eventually learn but on both of these counts they have shown little to no real progress and in some areas actually gotten worse.

BrianDavion wrote:

 jeff white wrote:
4 we can talk about it on Dakka

he said actions that can produce change, talking about it on Dakka isn't going to effect change.

Pretty much. Realistically, GW couldn't care less what get's posted on these boards. This forum represents such a minor fraction of the player base that for every disgruntled hobbyist here there is probably a thousand fans cheering the success.

 Argive wrote:
Yeah part of the problem is GW have set the bar soooo so low in term of book/rules quality, this book can be considered a roaring success....

I think they have several teams working on different aspects of the books/rules who don't communicate to each other and whoever is in charge over all just doesn't care about a few complaints. As long as the sales figures look good at the management meeting...

The only thing that would get any kind of change is:

1. Boycot of future rules releases/products - unlikely as people are too lazy/care enough to get organised

2. A mass refund campaign where everyone asks for a refund as the book is riddled with mistakes and as such is not fit for purpose of being a "patch" - Again same problem as the first point.

3. Social media/email complaints - Everyone writes their complains and writes GW angry emails (maybe requesting refunds)

Other than that, its a case of really enjoying the turd sandwich you are being served and accepting it is what it is and imagine the turd sandwich is a juicy meatball marinara instead..

I'm already doing #1 with all their prints products. At this point with the errors and imbalanced rules they don't DESERVE money for it. I highly recommend doing the same. Apparently my emails they ignore can only do so much. Right?

I have no idea how big the portion of the fanbase is that is disgruntled or if its a vocal minority or if its just dakka community.

I suppose the only real way of knowing is do organise a corss forum social media action and encourage people to retrun their books/ask for refunds & complaints. And then maybe enough people would do it if it is indeed such a big problem. This could or could not make a difference. I think its likely to make a bigger impact if its done over repeated publications.

Wether its a vocal minority or not is irrelevent. I think that voting with your wallet works best when dealing with a company along with organised boycott and social media exposure.

These could or could not work. Nobody knows really..

I for example am too lazy to write an angry email, complain and go through with a threat of a refund enquiry.. I know its technicaly the right thing to do but I honestly cant be bothered and will just eat the turd sandwich. I wasnt happy with FW specters they sent me so I did something about that.

Guess you could call it general apathy. If I saw a concerted effort being put in organising a movement I'd probably get behind it but for me perosnally, and my faction the missions and the points are acurate. So to be honest Im happy keeping the book despite how bad it may or may not be.

I am not happy about legends thing but thats another issue entirely.

I was having a look through the Spearhead missions and the mission-specific stratagems available to each faction and noticed that there’s no Ork stratagem - not a mistake as such but quite a glaring omission! Very disappointing.

Well GW removes basically all the negativity on their offical stuff for starters.

Also your apathy is what lets them continue to get away with garbage. Is it THAT hard to construct am email? No it isn't. I'm fact it's probably a skill you'd have perfected in the work place.

Just make sure you write an email that is constructive.

"Dear GW, I am writing to you to express my dissappointment in product X, this product had notable errors such as *list examples of the errors* this is, given your current pricing, an unacceptable level of quality and as such I have returned the product and will refrain from doing busniess with you until there is an improvement in quality control to my sastifaction"
Is a good example of a email. Giving specific examples of the issues is important.

"feth YOU GW! YOUR PRODUCTS SUCK! YOUR STUFF SUCKS! I'M GOING TO HUNT YOU DOWN AND KILL YOU FOR RUINING THE HOBBY YOU GREEDY PEICES OF gak" is NOT a good email. (assuming they don't take the threat seriously and pass your name onto the police they'll simply throw the email in the trash likely not even fully read)

Also, the Instigator Bolt Carbine points cost is missing from both Blood Angels and Dark Angels (same omission in the Blood of Baal points list for BA). It's in the Space Marine points list in CA, but if you only bought Blood of Baal you have a weapon you can take without any points cost.

I can't believe GW hasn't invested in some sort of document management system by now. It's pretty obvious they are making changes on the fly without a proper system in place for tracking and managing them, hence the repetition of old errors when they use source files that are themselves out of date. I think the whole design studio needs to be introduced to the concept of Golden Copy.

BrianDavion wrote:
Just make sure you write an email that is constructive.

"Dear GW, I am writing to you to express my dissappointment in product X, this product had notable errors such as *list examples of the errors* this is, given your current pricing, an unacceptable level of quality and as such I have returned the product and will refrain from doing busniess with you until there is an improvement in quality control to my sastifaction"
Is a good example of a email. Giving specific examples of the issues is important.

"feth YOU GW! YOUR PRODUCTS SUCK! YOUR STUFF SUCKS! I'M GOING TO HUNT YOU DOWN AND KILL YOU FOR RUINING THE HOBBY YOU GREEDY PEICES OF gak" is NOT a good email. (assuming they don't take the threat seriously and pass your name onto the police they'll simply throw the email in the trash likely not even fully read)

Actually polite and constrictive get's ignored just as much.
infact, when i made them aware of multiple rules issues since the start of 8th in regards to R&H that still didn't get a FAQ i got ignored until i demanded a refund for the book, which then promptly got an answer.
TL: DR GW ignores most things that don't get many mentions.

Slipspace wrote:
Also, the Instigator Bolt Carbine points cost is missing from both Blood Angels and Dark Angels (same omission in the Blood of Baal points list for BA). It's in the Space Marine points list in CA, but if you only bought Blood of Baal you have a weapon you can take without any points cost.

I can't believe GW hasn't invested in some sort of document management system by now. It's pretty obvious they are making changes on the fly without a proper system in place for tracking and managing them, hence the repetition of old errors when they use source files that are themselves out of date. I think the whole design studio needs to be introduced to the concept of Golden Copy.

That won't happen until they hire an actual editor.

And no editor is going to want that job as trying to drag the GW writing department into an effective organisational structure with proper audit trails of their work, approval processes, technical editing etc. would be a nightmare.

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Just make sure you write an email that is constructive.

"Dear GW, I am writing to you to express my dissappointment in product X, this product had notable errors such as *list examples of the errors* this is, given your current pricing, an unacceptable level of quality and as such I have returned the product and will refrain from doing busniess with you until there is an improvement in quality control to my sastifaction"
Is a good example of a email. Giving specific examples of the issues is important.

"feth YOU GW! YOUR PRODUCTS SUCK! YOUR STUFF SUCKS! I'M GOING TO HUNT YOU DOWN AND KILL YOU FOR RUINING THE HOBBY YOU GREEDY PEICES OF gak" is NOT a good email. (assuming they don't take the threat seriously and pass your name onto the police they'll simply throw the email in the trash likely not even fully read)

Actually polite and constrictive get's ignored just as much.
infact, when i made them aware of multiple rules issues since the start of 8th in regards to R&H that still didn't get a FAQ i got ignored until i demanded a refund for the book, which then promptly got an answer.
TL: DR GW ignores most things that don't get many mentions.

never said they will listen, just they're more likely to listen.

No, your standards are not even if you seem to nitpick over it. I repeatedly am disgusted at the number of people who say proofreading is no big deal. You're fething right I expect the book to be flawless for PROOFING ERRORS. What else should you expect in a product you pay for? Why the feth are people constantly making excuses why a multi-million dollar international company selling what they peddle as a quality product can't get the absolute basics that anyone publishing should be able to do? ANYONE publishing any sort of book ought to be able to proofread it properly. Not do a lazy copy+paste job and shove it out the door for the ignorant plebs to eat up.

Seriously. Why do people keep giving GW a pass on this gak?

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Because you HAVE to have these books to play the game. It could be in crayon written by 3rd graders and people would still buy it. GW will never care about the quality of their books as long as they are required to play the game. There's no incentive and books are their highest money maker.

citation needed on it being their biggest money maker.

as for needed I have many friend playing the tournament scenes who do not own anything other than the main rulebook. with things like battlescribe and ... other sources that you should probably have a VPN to use.. they have all of the books and rules but often have not purchased them.

 Gareth_Evans wrote:
I think its proof that their "logbook" 16th Century model of distributing books of numbers is not working.

It's easy to guess how these mistakes were made - they simply cannot keep on top of their own ridiculous model. They've obviously not gone back and fixed the proofs of 2018 when they were erratad. When 2019 was released they copy and pasted the 2018 figures **without putting their own errata on**.

They expect customers to follow this system when they themselves are now confused by it.

I mean, they show this all the time that they don't understand their own rules or forget rules they've written/changed. So their entire model is a complete joke that doesn't work, yet they slavishly follow it and the result is every single book has glaring errors that need to be FAQ'd when they shouldn't even be there. Sure, having faster FAQs is a good thing. But not for gak that you should catch before the book goes to print!