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I have to assume their are "accidents" in the mixed regiments of guard, and some of the fluff even talks about being raised in a regiment. The Cain books talk about Ciaphas and Amberly, but I wanted to know, are there instances where love happened in 40K? No to whoever mentions anything starting with Slaanesh.

I hear there was a love story in the 1k sons book. Then there is the hints of something between Gman and his Eldar crazy cat lady.

What about it? Is there room in a 40k fluff for romance?

As long as there's people, there's room for romance.

There's plenty of cases of it in the Gaunt's Ghosts series (Caffran and Tona especially), and I believe that in Fulgrim there's a case of two artists on the EC ship who fall in love (without Slaaneshi influence, IIRC), there *may* have been a case of it in Mechanicum between two of the adepts working on the Akashic Reader.

There is love and romance, but it's rarely pivotal to the plot/story.

Well, I've definitely read Black Library that had relationships as a focal point, and tons that had it as an important background point, and OBVIOUSLY love and relationships exist in 40k since people are still having babies, so…

Or are you asking about stories that are strictly *about* love and romance?

I mean, you're not going to find that stuff amongst Space Marine fiction, because they're sexless, non-human, and all-male, and there's not a lot in the guard or fiction where the action takes place entirely in a military context, but anything dealing with civilians, yeah, it's usually there.

romance generally doesn't take the forefront of many 40k stories, remember the stories are adventure stories for boys, for the most part, and boys at least in the minds of marketers aren't intreasted in romance

Several HH novels have characters who are romantically involved but it is usually pretty low-key. Several Remembrancers are in relationships in various books. Know no Fear and Nemesis both have Admech characters in love with another "from afar" and don't consider their feelings particularly out of place.

Romance happens in 40K but since most stories focus on the front lines and/or on genetically engineered, emotionally stunted super-soldiers, it is not usually particularly prominent or relevant to the plot. It is usually used to provide colour or motivation to secondary characters.

BrianDavion wrote:
romance generally doesn't take the forefront of many 40k stories, remember the stories are adventure stories for boys, for the most part, and boys at least in the minds of marketers aren't intreasted in romance

You know, I've actually been really pleasantly surprised with the amount of Black Library stuff I've read that seemed inclusive and enjoyable for women readers. I think it's maybe because - IIRC - the aspect of the hobby with the largest percentage of female sales is BL.

This morning I finished the Colonel's Monograph by Graham McNeill, and it did mostly did an excellent job of representing an intellectual, level-headed, aging woman as a protagonist. No awful "as I walked down the stairs, I thought about my supple breasts bouncing and heaving against my low-cut top, and thought about my silky panties brushing against my nethers" nonsense. The only part that rang male-gazey to me was a very brief erotic moment at the climax. So, yeah, hats off to McNeill.

Obviously boys and men are always going to be the priority for GW, but these days I'd credit them with not exclusively focusing on that stuff. I feel pretty happy with them these days, after all! Just make some female Imperial Guard infantry, already.

There's Septimus and Octavia in The Night Lords Trilogy, as mentioned Caffran and Tona in Guant's Ghosts, also Gaunt, Rawne and Anna Curth had a love triangle.

Gregor Eisenhorn and Alizebeth Bequin were both in love with one another, but never really able to do much about it, with him being a Psychic and her being a Psychic Blank.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I have to assume their are "accidents" in the mixed regiments of guard, and some of the fluff even talks about being raised in a regiment. The Cain books talk about Ciaphas and Amberly, but I wanted to know, are there instances where love happened in 40K? No to whoever mentions anything starting with Slaanesh.

I hear there was a love story in the 1k sons book. Then there is the hints of something between Gman and his Eldar crazy cat lady.

What about it? Is there room in a 40k fluff for romance?

Plenty of romance with Cain - Amberley was not his only dalliance even if she was the most serious, other characters are lovers - two of Amberely's retinue are a couple, there are a number of romances in the regiment that Cain spends most of his time including one between two female soldiers. There are also references to him having to deal with pregancies in the regiment.

Helsreach has several couples - not all end happily.

Gaunts Ghosts has much of the same, although usually they end less happily.

Many Regiments aims to settle a planet as a new colony and have camp followers - see a horrible result of this in Imperial Glory.

The Eldar Path novels have romances - even between a ranger and a former Dark Eldar turned Corsair.....

Even Storm of Iron has a doomed romance between two hivers.

Andy Clarks (excellent and very BattleTech) Knight novels have romance as well as married couples.

Unless its pure bolter porn its usually there.

his morning I finished the Colonel's Monograph by Graham McNeill, and it did mostly did an excellent job of representing an intellectual, level-headed, aging woman as a protagonist. No awful "as I walked down the stairs, I thought about my supple breasts bouncing and heaving against my low-cut top, and thought about my silky panties brushing against my nethers" nonsense. The only part that rang male-gazey to me was a very brief erotic moment at the climax. So, yeah, hats off to McNeill.

Just finished the same book and thought it was good as well.

Yeah, that bit in Helsreach (the movie, and I may be paraphrasing)..

"Did you find the woman you sought to marry?"

"Yes... I found her"

Had me bawling :-(

Titanicus had a husband & wife separated by the invasion as the wife was in the PDF.

A couple of the characters in the Beast War series had lovers or were involved with each other.

The Path of the Eldar series has a love triangle at the core of the characters' relationship. The protagonist of the first book becomes a warrior after he gets rejected by his crush. There is also a fling between an ex-dark eldar turned pirate and a ranger, but it doesn't last.

In Path of the Dark Eldar there is some heavy sexual tension between several characters, but it goes absolutely nowhere.

Has mentionned before there are plenty of romance sub plots in the Gaunt Ghost, Eisenhorn and Ravennor series as well as in the Ciaphas Cain series.

The Salamander's omnibus starts with the suicide of an apothecary after his secret lover, the captain of the company dies.

Several relationships amonst Space Marines in the Horus Heresy series flirt with the romantic status while several remembrencer are in couple.

The Night Lord trilogy has an important romance sb plot between two human servants.

There is a certain lack for romance driven stories in the 40K univers though. Since GW seems to be inclined to expand its genre into horror and children's novel it would make sense for them to think about expanding there too.

"Carapace rippers"?

I would seriously posit that Argel Tal was genuinely in love with Cyrene, and that his daemon body-buddy had nothing to do with those feelings. Cyrene may have felt the same way, though due to her religious beliefs, she saw him as divine as thus probably being off-limits.

beast_gts wrote:
Titanicus had a husband & wife separated by the invasion as the wife was in the PDF.

Yeah, that was sad.

nataliereed1984 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
romance generally doesn't take the forefront of many 40k stories, remember the stories are adventure stories for boys, for the most part, and boys at least in the minds of marketers aren't intreasted in romance

You know, I've actually been really pleasantly surprised with the amount of Black Library stuff I've read that seemed inclusive and enjoyable for women readers. I think it's maybe because - IIRC - the aspect of the hobby with the largest percentage of female sales is BL.

This morning I finished the Colonel's Monograph by Graham McNeill, and it did mostly did an excellent job of representing an intellectual, level-headed, aging woman as a protagonist. No awful "as I walked down the stairs, I thought about my supple breasts bouncing and heaving against my low-cut top, and thought about my silky panties brushing against my nethers" nonsense. The only part that rang male-gazey to me was a very brief erotic moment at the climax. So, yeah, hats off to McNeill.

Obviously boys and men are always going to be the priority for GW, but these days I'd credit them with not exclusively focusing on that stuff. I feel pretty happy with them these days, after all! Just make some female Imperial Guard infantry, already.

.. do people really write like that!?

BrianDavion wrote:

nataliereed1984 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
romance generally doesn't take the forefront of many 40k stories, remember the stories are adventure stories for boys, for the most part, and boys at least in the minds of marketers aren't intreasted in romance

You know, I've actually been really pleasantly surprised with the amount of Black Library stuff I've read that seemed inclusive and enjoyable for women readers. I think it's maybe because - IIRC - the aspect of the hobby with the largest percentage of female sales is BL.

This morning I finished the Colonel's Monograph by Graham McNeill, and it did mostly did an excellent job of representing an intellectual, level-headed, aging woman as a protagonist. No awful "as I walked down the stairs, I thought about my supple breasts bouncing and heaving against my low-cut top, and thought about my silky panties brushing against my nethers" nonsense. The only part that rang male-gazey to me was a very brief erotic moment at the climax. So, yeah, hats off to McNeill.

Obviously boys and men are always going to be the priority for GW, but these days I'd credit them with not exclusively focusing on that stuff. I feel pretty happy with them these days, after all! Just make some female Imperial Guard infantry, already.

.. do people really write like that!?

Ooooh yes

 Aestas wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

nataliereed1984 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
romance generally doesn't take the forefront of many 40k stories, remember the stories are adventure stories for boys, for the most part, and boys at least in the minds of marketers aren't intreasted in romance

You know, I've actually been really pleasantly surprised with the amount of Black Library stuff I've read that seemed inclusive and enjoyable for women readers. I think it's maybe because - IIRC - the aspect of the hobby with the largest percentage of female sales is BL.

This morning I finished the Colonel's Monograph by Graham McNeill, and it did mostly did an excellent job of representing an intellectual, level-headed, aging woman as a protagonist. No awful "as I walked down the stairs, I thought about my supple breasts bouncing and heaving against my low-cut top, and thought about my silky panties brushing against my nethers" nonsense. The only part that rang male-gazey to me was a very brief erotic moment at the climax. So, yeah, hats off to McNeill.

Obviously boys and men are always going to be the priority for GW, but these days I'd credit them with not exclusively focusing on that stuff. I feel pretty happy with them these days, after all! Just make some female Imperial Guard infantry, already.

.. do people really write like that!?

Ooooh yes

yikes, most of these are worthy of the worst erotic fanfiction out there...and their number is frightening.

BrianDavion wrote:

nataliereed1984 wrote: No awful "as I walked down the stairs, I thought about my supple breasts bouncing and heaving against my low-cut top, and thought about my silky panties brushing against my nethers" nonsense.

.. do people really write like that!?

Oh you sweet summer child

There's plenty of bromance in the horus heresy.



There's some romance in the draco inquisitor novel too, although reading that is a slog when you're used to a semi coherent 40k universe from modern BL perspective.

Macharius has something similar, too - in a similar vein to Draco, one of Macharius' bodyguards has a semi-serious relationship with a callidus assassin attached to an inquisitor.

It's kind of unfair but amusing, since - as far as the court and general staff are concerned, he picks up a (totally unwarranted) reputation as a tail-chasing lothario despite being the one protagonist who isn't.

nataliereed1984 wrote:
No awful "as I walked down the stairs, I thought about my supple breasts bouncing and heaving against my low-cut top, and thought about my silky panties brushing against my nethers" nonsense.

What do you mean, "awful"?

I'd please like to buy your book when it's released, ma'am

Mistress Baeda's Gift.

Dark Eldar love story.

Seriously.

It's great.

It really is! I mean - it's twisted as feck, but by the Drukhari mindset it's actually kinda touching.

So, I have found that relationships strengthen writing, the stronger the relationship bond the stronger the character's need or desire for a course/behavior.

For instance, I generally don't like the relationships that Sandy writes in the Cain series, because it's just about Cain being a bad James Bond fantasy. He's a 40k Will Ryker. There is no real substance behind that sort of relationship.

I think love is the most common goal or motivator that we have in literature. It seems odd there are no lasting or well established relationships in 40k lore.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I think love is the most common goal or motivator that we have in literature.

Love doesn't have to mean sexual or romantic.

The love of one's family, or animal companion, or even an nation or idea, can all be fierce motivators, and in so many pieces of classic fiction, people are motivated by a love that doesn't need to be romantic.

It seems odd there are no lasting or well established relationships in 40k lore.

There are lasting and well established relationships. It's just that those relationships are rarely pivotal to the plots of massive military campaigns, or sexless warrior monks devoted to a corpse god.

Ferrus and Fulgrim basically exemplify the doomed romantic bit, no?

"Dead Men Walking" had a romantic subplot in it, but that didn't turn out very well.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, I have found that relationships strengthen writing, the stronger the relationship bond the stronger the character's need or desire for a course/behavior.

For instance, I generally don't like the relationships that Sandy writes in the Cain series, because it's just about Cain being a bad James Bond fantasy. He's a 40k Will Ryker. There is no real substance behind that sort of relationship.

I think love is the most common goal or motivator that we have in literature. It seems odd there are no lasting or well established relationships in 40k lore.

A number of long lasting relationships have been noted in this thread - and thats not even including bonds of bortherhood or sisterhood, family etc.

Cain is quite a womaniser - true..........BUT if you read the parts between him and Amberley they are actually quite sweet in their downtime, ie in its obviously not just sex; there are neck massages afte a long day, making sure she has her favourite flowers waiting for her in her suite, the relaxed banter of long established couples ........... and the playing around definately something that tails off after he meets her.

It's not a romantic love, but the narrator's noatalgia and anguish for his 'lost' sister in Talon of Horus really humanised a character who is other wise pretty monstrous.

I can't believe Love Can Bloom hasn't been mentioned, even if it is /tg/ fanfic. I started playing well after it's time and even I heard of it.