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Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Hi guys,

I just got into painting miniatures. One luxury I have is that I used to airbrush a lot and still got all my equipment.

Now, I got all those Airbrush colours, namely Createx Airbrush Colours and Etac Private Stock.
Do you guys think I can save me the money on Vallejos or similar and use those as a primer?
They both are acrylic paints and I would just try them but since I'm a beginner I would not know if they perform good or not.

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Made in gb
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





Portsmouth UK

no - you'll need primer, although these do come in a variety of colours.

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Made in us
Norn Queen






Primer is not paint and paint is not a primer. They are 2 different products that do different jobs. Primers job is to prime the surface for painting by creating a strong bond on the surface and creating a optimal surface for paint adhesion. Paint does not make as strong of a bond to the model surface as primer does and if you look at dry primer under a microscope you will see that it basically has a surface made of "hooks" which is why its so rough and flat. Paint has shine because its smooth and doesn't do that so paint doesn't adhere as well.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





You need primer like the poster above states.

Vallejo or badger are the easiest to use since they are water based. Tamiya and Mr. Surfacer products work well if you are comfortable using paints that's require solvents.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Lance845 wrote:
Primer is not paint and paint is not a primer.
Many paints function perfectly well as primers. And some primers are pretty mediocre compared to some paints as a primer. For example, an acrylic advertised as an airbrushable primer will probably adhere worse to a model's surface than an airbrush lacquer advertised as a paint.

You just need something that will adhere well to the surface and paint will adhere well to it, unfortunately most acrylic airbrush paints do not adhere well to bare plastic so they don't make a great primer surface. If you were airbrushing enamel or lacquer paints, they can often serve as a primer as they tend to bite harder in to the plastic.

Even when I'm airbrushing, I tend to favour rattle cans for priming the model. Rattle cans have all sorts of horrible chemicals in them that eat in to the surface of the plastic - which is exactly what you want a primer to do, but it's usually not something you want to be shooting through your airbrush. For example, GW's current range of rattle can primers have an acetone base.

I like GW primers and Tamiya primers, if you're using large amounts the GW ones actually end up a bit cheaper as they are sold in bigger volumes.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





Get yourself some badger stynylrez or Vallejo airbrush primer. They both cure hard as nails and really smooth.

(edit) I like to give it 24 hours to really cure before painting over the primer, but I think thats only really necessary with the vallejo stuff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/26 14:24:58


 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Thank you guys for the detailed answers. I think I'm gonna get the Vallejo ones, spray cans are a bit too messy for me.

Have you ever used airbrush colors as a base coat after priming?
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
Primer is not paint and paint is not a primer.
Many paints function perfectly well as primers. And some primers are pretty mediocre compared to some paints as a primer. For example, an acrylic advertised as an airbrushable primer will probably adhere worse to a model's surface than an airbrush lacquer advertised as a paint.

You just need something that will adhere well to the surface and paint will adhere well to it, unfortunately most acrylic airbrush paints do not adhere well to bare plastic so they don't make a great primer surface. If you were airbrushing enamel or lacquer paints, they can often serve as a primer as they tend to bite harder in to the plastic.

Even when I'm airbrushing, I tend to favour rattle cans for priming the model. Rattle cans have all sorts of horrible chemicals in them that eat in to the surface of the plastic - which is exactly what you want a primer to do, but it's usually not something you want to be shooting through your airbrush. For example, GW's current range of rattle can primers have an acetone base.

I like GW primers and Tamiya primers, if you're using large amounts the GW ones actually end up a bit cheaper as they are sold in bigger volumes.


Great info. I did not know that about GW rattle cans. Thanks for sharing.

--- 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






I agree with rattle cans as the best primer options. I made a spray box by cutting the lid flaps off a largeish card board box and setting it on its side. I then took a second cardboard sheet to place the models onto so i could spray, then pull out the "tray" and rotate the models and then hit them from a different angle. I also use this when i spray my clear coats on the models. Its nowhere near as messy when you have a big box to contain them.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Lance845 wrote:
Primer is not paint and paint is not a primer. They are 2 different products that do different jobs. Primers job is to prime the surface for painting by creating a strong bond on the surface and creating a optimal surface for paint adhesion. Paint does not make as strong of a bond to the model surface as primer does and if you look at dry primer under a microscope you will see that it basically has a surface made of "hooks" which is why its so rough and flat. Paint has shine because its smooth and doesn't do that so paint doesn't adhere as well.


Normally I'd agree but there exists some exceptions. In the citadel product line the "base-colors" for the Contrast all cover and are durable enough to go on first. I've used them recently in that fashion. Side by side with the Stynlrez I'd say the citadel had better coverage and only slightly less durability vs the badger product.

In fact, I found I use it more on smaller models than the badger primer simply because when using contrast and wanting max detail, a single coat acting as the base for the contrast is both faster and less detail cloggy.

Also people have used things like rustolium but.. I've never subscribed to rattle cans. The results are always inferior without the additional use of a proper after-market nozzle. Then you can get ok end results, still, an airbrush delivers better initial quality.

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Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

CrispCookie wrote:
Thank you guys for the detailed answers. I think I'm gonna get the Vallejo ones, spray cans are a bit too messy for me.

Have you ever used airbrush colors as a base coat after priming?


I use the Vallejo primers a lot. Seems like a lot of people make the mistake of just blasting on one thick coat with those, which leads to peeling problems. What you want to do is apply multiple thin coats, and allow a little dry time (30 minutes?) in between. My first coat is very light...just looking for enough for the next layers to grab to, not an opaque coat. Usually my second coats gets me 80%+ of the way there, and then my final coat gets me full coverage. Oh, I also thin them just a little.

You can certainly use them like a regular paint, yes.

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 gorgon wrote:
CrispCookie wrote:
Thank you guys for the detailed answers. I think I'm gonna get the Vallejo ones, spray cans are a bit too messy for me.

Have you ever used airbrush colors as a base coat after priming?


I use the Vallejo primers a lot. Seems like a lot of people make the mistake of just blasting on one thick coat with those, which leads to peeling problems. What you want to do is apply multiple thin coats, and allow a little dry time (30 minutes?) in between. My first coat is very light...just looking for enough for the next layers to grab to, not an opaque coat. Usually my second coats gets me 80%+ of the way there, and then my final coat gets me full coverage. Oh, I also thin them just a little.

You can certainly use them like a regular paint, yes.


The problem I had with the vallejo primers is that they are very thick. One of the best things about the stynlrez is that it is watery thin. You simply cannot get one coat coverage.. though arguably, Stynlrez is designed properly. That is.. it isn't your base color.. merely the tint base. That means you don't need, nor do you really want, a thick or fully opaque primer.. if you need a solid color you then overlay the primer with your base color or undercoat color of doing a variety of techniques. The problem people have with Stynlrez is folks think they should be getting a fully opaque pattern with water thin primer. No lay it on thin, let it dry.. layer more later if you want.

It's why I threw out my Vallejo Primers.. that and after about 6 months the really big bottles would start to granulate and those granules would clog the air brush and look terrible on the model.

Consummate 8th Edition Hater.  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





One thing to think about is how easy the paints you use "self level". While other paints can cover and stick well enough you may run into issues with them filling in fine details. Primers are normally designed to flow better and are less likely to settle into a single area. Not that you can't use regular paints as primers as mentioned above, but not all of the text on a label is marketing.

I like 2 primer coats for the same reasons others have made earlier.

The GW primers do stick like crazy and I like that a lot. However, I am not comfortable with rattle cans and not good at getting a smooth finish using them.

Acrylic primers are best when they cure for 24 hours.
   
 
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