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2020/01/03 23:50:11
Subject: Why imperial guards dont have bikes and attack bikes but do have cavalry?
Guard bikers and Landspeeders were jettisoned coming out of Rogue Trader, and Rough Riders are only a legacy Legends option these days. Rhinos got replaced by Chimeras 20-odd years ago. The Guard army makeup was changed hugely from it’s origins donkeys years ago.
Many people have made counts-as Rough Riders on bikes though over the years. It can be a cool conversion. Shame the rules are a bit sucky these days, but I still love my Horsey Bois!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/04 00:04:10
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
2020/01/04 00:16:44
Subject: Re:Why imperial guards dont have bikes and attack bikes but do have cavalry?
Pretre: OOOOHHHHH snap. That's like driving away from hitting a pedestrian.
Pacific:First person to Photoshop a GW store into the streets of Kabul wins the thread.
Selym: "Be true to thyself, play Chaos" - Jesus, Daemon Prince of Cegorach.
H.B.M.C: You can't lobotomise someone twice.
2020/01/04 00:31:49
Subject: Why imperial guards dont have bikes and attack bikes but do have cavalry?
Considering how iconic and long lasting they've been I'm still shocked that the Guard haven't had Rough Riders returned to the range in a major way! Heck GW also made some noise a while back about dogs in the Guard - I could ever so easily see an expansion for IG formed around the idea of adding dog units and rough riders into the game once again as combined theme for a release.
As for why not, chances are there isn't really a good reason other than "no one in the design team has made them". IG are basically modelled after a sci-fi version of a WW1 army. Their ranks, infantry rankings, use of trenches, the continued use of horses/living mounted cavalry - all speak toward the idea that they are a WWI styled army.
Now in WWI they did have motobikes and sidecars. I think that for the Guard the Sentinel and Roughriders basically took those slots of a light mobile weapon platform. Indeed the walkers in theory have a bonus of wheels/tracks in being able to walk up and down over things like trenches.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What calvary? There's no such thing I see in the codex at all.
Fortunately some of us don't have an issue concerning playing with Legends &/or FW units. Or even Index units that don't appear in Legends (are there any?) If you do? Well, that's you're problem, but it doesn't erase the options for everyone.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnnyHell wrote: Guard bikers and Landspeeders were jettisoned coming out of Rogue Trader, and Rough Riders are only a legacy Legends option these days.
That's not quite accurate for the speeders.
We lost our remaining speeders (to the &^%* GSC) when our 2nd edition Codex landed. We were firmly in 2e at that point. Until then they were found in the little black armies pamphlet that came in the starter box.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/04 05:07:24
2020/01/04 05:32:28
Subject: Why imperial guards dont have bikes and attack bikes but do have cavalry?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What calvary? There's no such thing I see in the codex at all.
Fortunately some of us don't have an issue concerning playing with Legends &/or FW units. Or even Index units that don't appear in Legends (are there any?) If you do? Well, that's you're problem, but it doesn't erase the options for everyone.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnnyHell wrote: Guard bikers and Landspeeders were jettisoned coming out of Rogue Trader, and Rough Riders are only a legacy Legends option these days.
That's not quite accurate for the speeders.
We lost our remaining speeders (to the &^%* GSC) when our 2nd edition Codex landed. We were firmly in 2e at that point. Until then they were found in the little black armies pamphlet that came in the starter box.
Think you missed the joke there, bud. That said, GW is clearly not supporting Rough Riders at this point.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/01/04 06:07:54
Subject: Re:Why imperial guards dont have bikes and attack bikes but do have cavalry?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What calvary? There's no such thing I see in the codex at all.
Fortunately some of us don't have an issue concerning playing with Legends &/or FW units. Or even Index units that don't appear in Legends (are there any?) If you do? Well, that's you're problem, but it doesn't erase the options for everyone.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnnyHell wrote: Guard bikers and Landspeeders were jettisoned coming out of Rogue Trader, and Rough Riders are only a legacy Legends option these days.
That's not quite accurate for the speeders.
We lost our remaining speeders (to the &^%* GSC) when our 2nd edition Codex landed. We were firmly in 2e at that point. Until then they were found in the little black armies pamphlet that came in the starter box.
Think you missed the joke there, bud. That said, GW is clearly not supporting Rough Riders at this point.
There was a joke in your previous post? Well, aside from your inability to distinguish between mounted infantry and a city in Canada, anyway...
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2020/01/04 08:11:21
Subject: Why imperial guards dont have bikes and attack bikes but do have cavalry?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What calvary? There's no such thing I see in the codex at all.
Fortunately some of us don't have an issue concerning playing with Legends &/or FW units. Or even Index units that don't appear in Legends (are there any?) If you do? Well, that's you're problem, but it doesn't erase the options for everyone.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnnyHell wrote: Guard bikers and Landspeeders were jettisoned coming out of Rogue Trader, and Rough Riders are only a legacy Legends option these days.
That's not quite accurate for the speeders.
We lost our remaining speeders (to the &^%* GSC) when our 2nd edition Codex landed. We were firmly in 2e at that point. Until then they were found in the little black armies pamphlet that came in the starter box.
Sorry for not specifying the exact moment in 2nd that they were dropped, but with “coming out of RT” I did say they were dropped in 2nd. Not sure what your specific pedantry added to the thread. I did a quick summary, not a full history lesson. Point stands: they are gone and went shortly after RT.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
2020/01/04 09:06:39
Subject: Why imperial guards dont have bikes and attack bikes but do have cavalry?
Because Imperial Guard are based off WW1 infantry. While Motorcycles were around in WW1 they weren't as prevalent as they were in WW2 and even then they were used as despatch riders rather than battle troops.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/04 09:07:14
2020/01/04 12:52:10
Subject: Why imperial guards dont have bikes and attack bikes but do have cavalry?
BaconCatBug wrote: Because Imperial Guard are based off WW1 infantry. While Motorcycles were around in WW1 they weren't as prevalent as they were in WW2 and even then they were used as despatch riders rather than battle troops.
BaconCatBug wrote: Because Imperial Guard are based off WW1 infantry. While Motorcycles were around in WW1 they weren't as prevalent as they were in WW2 and even then they were used as despatch riders rather than battle troops.
So you linked two WW2 sources and a single paragraph about WW1 that states bicycles (not motorbikes) were used as "infantry, scouts, messengers and ambulance carriers".
Notice where I said the Guard is based off WW1 infantry and not WW2 infantry?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/04 14:02:27
2020/01/04 14:10:21
Subject: Why imperial guards dont have bikes and attack bikes but do have cavalry?
Sim-Life wrote: In the fluff some rough rider regiments use bikes. Its just GW decided horses were more archaic looking I guess and this cooler.
Having seen the mounted cavalry poses GW has used in AoS, they could do some seriously good mounted rough riders now! In the past horses from GW were rather, bland, esp when they were mostly just a bare horse. Today they are really dynamic - even the Deathriders from Ossiarchs, which aren't flailing around at mad angles or poses, are really dynamic with great led positions and detail and presence.
Did we ever actually have fluff of Rough Rider regiments using bikes?
I know we had bikes for armored regiments in "Gunheads"(the 'Blackshadow' and 'Hornet' recon/messenger bikes), but I don't remember any actual canonical stuff of bikers running around with lances or stuff.
2020/01/04 21:38:09
Subject: Why imperial guards dont have bikes and attack bikes but do have cavalry?
Arbitrator wrote: Some regiments do use bikes in the fluff, but there's no rules for them nor official models.
Sadly there is lots of cool stuff for many factions including Guard but have never appeared on the tabletop. I have rhinos, bikes and jetbike for my guard (old RT models)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/04 22:51:31
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
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BaconCatBug wrote: Because Imperial Guard are based off WW1 infantry. While Motorcycles were around in WW1 they weren't as prevalent as they were in WW2 and even then they were used as despatch riders rather than battle troops.
So you linked two WW2 sources and a single paragraph about WW1 that states bicycles (not motorbikes) were used as "infantry, scouts, messengers and ambulance carriers".
Notice where I said the Guard is based off WW1 infantry and not WW2 infantry?
There weren't any APCs, IFVs, utility helicopters, battle tanks, assault rifles, paratroopers, rpgs, self-propelled artillery, armoured gun trucks, IMVs, CAS aircraft, or FAVs in WW1, yet the Astra Militarum uses all of them. Therefore, your arguement against the use of motorcycles/attack bikes by the AM is rather moot.
2020/01/07 12:52:57
Subject: Why imperial guards dont have bikes and attack bikes but do have cavalry?
BaconCatBug wrote: Because Imperial Guard are based off WW1 infantry. While Motorcycles were around in WW1 they weren't as prevalent as they were in WW2 and even then they were used as despatch riders rather than battle troops.
Motorcycle dragoons, as in infantry who use a mount for movement and then dismount to fight as infantry, have been reasonably common in modern military history. The Italians used a militarized Vespa scooter, some of which were later modified to carry anti-tank recoilless rifles (for transport, not firing). In the Toyota War (Chadian-Libyan conflict) motorcycles and mopeds were used to keep up with the ubiquitous Hilux-based technicals in a very peculiar form of modern mobile warfare. And bicycles were used by the French, Italians, and Swiss, among others, in WW2 as an alternative to full motorization (which was cost-prohibitive and ill-suited to mountainous terrain).
But you will note that all of these are WW2-onwards, because in WW1 motorcycles and bicycles were used by messengers, not combatants. Exactly as both BCB said and your links support.
Motorcycle cavalry (in the traditional sense of cavalry), meaning men who fight from their mount, have never existed.
Now, historical allegories aside in a game where being able to swing a chainsaw sword from your cupola is a valid tactical decision: Guard are getting away from the idea of having cavalry in any form, which is why Rough Riders were Legends'd, but I've never seen a problem with converting Rough Riders to be bikers. I suspect the decision to retire RRs and not introduce any 'modern' equivalent comes down to the idea that bikers or horsemen don't fit the IG's image of WW1/WW2 industrial warfare taken to an extreme, with tanks, APCs, IFVs, and hordes and hordes of infantry. The Sentinel is the lightweight scout vehicle equivalent, and it's basically a Wiesel on legs.
As long as the Death Korps are still around, their Death Riders get to embody the archetype of anachronistic horses on the pseudo-modern battlefield.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/01/07 12:58:33
It is sad that they never released a kit like the Death Riders in plastic. I love the concept to bits (super 2000AD!) but I cannot justify spending that much on resin minis.
I did a quick summary, not a full history lesson. Point stands: they are gone and went shortly after 
