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Hi,

Been doing 40k for about 6 months and am finding the way GW put some new products out a bit confusing. Anyway I have bought the digital version of the CSM and DA codexes. So will I automatically get the rule updates for psychic awakening or do I still have to buy the books?

mrFickle wrote:
Hi,

Been doing 40k for about 6 months and am finding the way GW put some new products out a bit confusing. Anyway I have bought the digital version of the CSM and DA codexes. So will I automatically get the rule updates for psychic awakening or do I still have to buy the books?

You'll have to buy the books - Faith & Fury for CSM and Ritual of the Damned for Dark Angels.

Yea, you'll find that books are one of the more painful things about GW.

Thank you. So if I were playing a game would it need to be declared if we are playing standard rules or psychic awakening rules? I assume the rules supplied in the PA books are a supplement after a story and not the whole codex re issued?

25 quid is a lot to access some extra rules that I assume are designed to be fun whilst balancing the game a bit

PA is not a choice, it's just how the game is. For DA it adds extra rules for free automatically so it's required, for CSM it adds extra options so it's suggested you buy it to know all your options but you can technically choose to never use any of them so your opponent can't force you to have it. If you don't like the prices you can message GW and complain and/or boycott the game.

mrFickle wrote:
Thank you. So if I were playing a game would it need to be declared if we are playing standard rules or psychic awakening rules? I assume the rules supplied in the PA books are a supplement after a story and not the whole codex re issued?

25 quid is a lot to access some extra rules that I assume are designed to be fun whilst balancing the game a bit

I'm afraid to say the Psychic Awakening supplemental rules are just the new canon rules.

If you were playing casually, you could probably ask your opponent - if they also have an army with PA rules - not to use theirs since you're not using yours, but probably do that ahead of time as it can affect list building.

You're not wrong though, it is a lot to ask to access some extra rules - especially when the whole book might not necessarily be relevant to your own armies.

 Haanz wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Thank you. So if I were playing a game would it need to be declared if we are playing standard rules or psychic awakening rules? I assume the rules supplied in the PA books are a supplement after a story and not the whole codex re issued?

25 quid is a lot to access some extra rules that I assume are designed to be fun whilst balancing the game a bit

I'm afraid to say the Psychic Awakening supplemental rules are just the new canon rules.

If you were playing casually, you could probably ask your opponent - if they also have an army with PA rules - not to use theirs since you're not using yours, but probably do that ahead of time as it can affect list building.

You're not wrong though, it is a lot to ask to access some extra rules - especially when the whole book might not necessarily be relevant to your own armies.

Yea, I've previously argued that you didn't "need" the Vigilus books and they were "nice to have" (unless you want the renegade / BL stuff). Psychic Awakening books are a different beast though.

The best way of dealing with this is to not buy them, source what rules you need, and let GW know your feelings on the matter. I sat on the fence for the TS PA. It seems likely that I'll buy it, but i'm waiting for the reviews to pop up before I hit "buy".

Thanks. They don’t make it that clear for new gamers what they are doing but fairs doos. I never bout the dark imperium boxed set, just the codexes and it wasn’t clear if PA was updating the game rules aswell. Well not clear to me.

But lets say I wanted to start a new blood angels army, I’d need to buy both the codex and the Blood of Baal in order to be table top ready. 50 before you’ve bought any models

mrFickle wrote:
Thanks. They don’t make it that clear for new gamers what they are doing but fairs doos. I never bout the dark imperium boxed set, just the codexes and it wasn’t clear if PA was updating the game rules aswell. Well not clear to me.

But lets say I wanted to start a new blood angels army, I’d need to buy both the codex and the Blood of Baal in order to be table top ready. 50 before you’ve bought any models

And Chapter Approved unless you trust Battlescribe.

What’s chapter approved?

40k legends is probably my response

mrFickle wrote:
What’s chapter approved?

Chapter Approved is the annual balancing books. Each year in December GW publishes them with point changes, new missions, and other fluffy stuff. Sometimes new datasheets and other things.

Thanks not heard of this before. I looked at chapter approved and the sales pitch gives an example of Ravenwing black nights point being changed from 38 per model to 34. I checked my ePub version of the DA codex and the points say 34. So could I expect all balancing aspect from CA to be applied in the ePub codex?

mrFickle wrote:
Thanks not heard of this before. I looked at chapter approved and the sales pitch gives an example of Ravenwing black nights point being changed from 38 per model to 34. I checked my ePub version of the DA codex and the points say 34. So could I expect all balancing aspect from CA to be applied in the ePub codex?

Huh, interesting. It seems so. The very original codex had them at 46, so you are getting some sort of update. Is it android or ios?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Thanks not heard of this before. I looked at chapter approved and the sales pitch gives an example of Ravenwing black nights point being changed from 38 per model to 34. I checked my ePub version of the DA codex and the points say 34. So could I expect all balancing aspect from CA to be applied in the ePub codex?

Huh, interesting. It seems so. The very original codex had them at 46, so you are getting some sort of update. Is it android or ios?

He probably has the enhanced version of the codex. Those are updated with CA pts.

It’s on IOS and yes I have the enhanced edition but do not remember what made me do that, I think it I thought it had more pictures and fluffy bits. I remember reading that the ePub got updated to some extent which why I bought it over the print edition.

mrFickle wrote:
It’s on IOS and yes I have the enhanced edition but do not remember what made me do that, I think it I thought it had more pictures and fluffy bits. I remember reading that the ePub got updated to some extent which why I bought it over the print edition.

Yea ok you're good on points then. I have android and we get plain jane epubs with no updates.

Also worth mentioning that the rules updates for these factions in their PA books are only a handful of pages so if you have a friend that's bought it or something you can just take a few photos or scan the pages etc.

outside of a couple stratagems you'll rarely reference the actual books during a game anyway.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Haanz wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Thank you. So if I were playing a game would it need to be declared if we are playing standard rules or psychic awakening rules? I assume the rules supplied in the PA books are a supplement after a story and not the whole codex re issued?

25 quid is a lot to access some extra rules that I assume are designed to be fun whilst balancing the game a bit

I'm afraid to say the Psychic Awakening supplemental rules are just the new canon rules.

If you were playing casually, you could probably ask your opponent - if they also have an army with PA rules - not to use theirs since you're not using yours, but probably do that ahead of time as it can affect list building.

You're not wrong though, it is a lot to ask to access some extra rules - especially when the whole book might not necessarily be relevant to your own armies.

Yea, I've previously argued that you didn't "need" the Vigilus books and they were "nice to have" (unless you want the renegade / BL stuff). Psychic Awakening books are a different beast though.

The best way of dealing with this is to not buy them, source what rules you need, and let GW know your feelings on the matter. I sat on the fence for the TS PA. It seems likely that I'll buy it, but i'm waiting for the reviews to pop up before I hit "buy".

enchoruaging people to pirate isn't the answer,

 Daedalus81 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
It’s on IOS and yes I have the enhanced edition but do not remember what made me do that, I think it I thought it had more pictures and fluffy bits. I remember reading that the ePub got updated to some extent which why I bought it over the print edition.

Yea ok you're good on points then. I have android and we get plain jane epubs with no updates.

Which is ridiculous for $35. Why not just pay another $5 and get an actual physical copy? I don't understand why gw can't make an update able version for android.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
It’s on IOS and yes I have the enhanced edition but do not remember what made me do that, I think it I thought it had more pictures and fluffy bits. I remember reading that the ePub got updated to some extent which why I bought it over the print edition.

Yea ok you're good on points then. I have android and we get plain jane epubs with no updates.

Which is ridiculous for $35. Why not just pay another $5 and get an actual physical copy? I don't understand why gw can't make an update able version for android.

Android lacks a controlled eco system where they can guarantee the app you're looking at contains the correct info. They could push updated pdfs to android, sort of, but how do you guarantee the user is looking at the correct file to prevent needless customer service issues?

What you need to have depends entirely on the type of game you are playing. Will you be playing narrative games with close friends, matched play games with strangers, competitive games in tournaments, or something else?

 Ginjitzu wrote:
What you need to have depends entirely on the type of game you are playing. Will you be playing narrative games with close friends, matched play games with strangers, competitive games in tournaments, or something else?

I don't think that playing GK in anyway makes much sense without the PA4 rules.

Karol wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:
What you need to have depends entirely on the type of game you are playing. Will you be playing narrative games with close friends, matched play games with strangers, competitive games in tournaments, or something else?

I don't think that playing GK in anyway akes much sense without the PA4 rules.

the original poster asked about dark angels and CSMs, not grey knights

I really hope GW is looking at posts like this (I seriously doubt they are, or that they would care if they did though). I've seen an increase in people both online and in person asking what rules they need for their army, or what PA is. It's kind of depressing to see an enthusiastic new gamer, or a returning player as I encountered yesterday with an old DA army, being really excited to play their first few games, then get increasingly confused or annoyed as you explain where all the rules are for their army and what Chapter Approved is. If you've been playing all edition it's not too bad as you're just buying a book or two a year for a single army but it's so confusing for new players right now. GW don't even have a handy guide you can look at anywhere that tells you where to get all the various rules for your own army.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Haanz wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Thank you. So if I were playing a game would it need to be declared if we are playing standard rules or psychic awakening rules? I assume the rules supplied in the PA books are a supplement after a story and not the whole codex re issued?

25 quid is a lot to access some extra rules that I assume are designed to be fun whilst balancing the game a bit

I'm afraid to say the Psychic Awakening supplemental rules are just the new canon rules.

If you were playing casually, you could probably ask your opponent - if they also have an army with PA rules - not to use theirs since you're not using yours, but probably do that ahead of time as it can affect list building.

You're not wrong though, it is a lot to ask to access some extra rules - especially when the whole book might not necessarily be relevant to your own armies.

Yea, I've previously argued that you didn't "need" the Vigilus books and they were "nice to have" (unless you want the renegade / BL stuff). Psychic Awakening books are a different beast though.

The best way of dealing with this is to not buy them, source what rules you need, and let GW know your feelings on the matter. I sat on the fence for the TS PA. It seems likely that I'll buy it, but i'm waiting for the reviews to pop up before I hit "buy".

enchoruaging people to pirate isn't the answer,

Share. I encourage people to share. With strangers. Is this wrong?

But again my personal answer is to use legend or index rules until a new edition then decide whether to follow GW any further on the way to killing the goodwill of their fan base with microtransactions

Slipspace wrote:
I really hope GW is looking at posts like this (I seriously doubt they are, or that they would care if they did though). I've seen an increase in people both online and in person asking what rules they need for their army, or what PA is. It's kind of depressing to see an enthusiastic new gamer, or a returning player as I encountered yesterday with an old DA army, being really excited to play their first few games, then get increasingly confused or annoyed as you explain where all the rules are for their army and what Chapter Approved is. If you've been playing all edition it's not too bad as you're just buying a book or two a year for a single army but it's so confusing for new players right now. GW don't even have a handy guide you can look at anywhere that tells you where to get all the various rules for your own army.

Asking about how to "get into 40k" is hardly new; there are similarly titled threads as old as this forum itself. I can remember being just as confused getting into one of the very early editions as a kid (the one with Templars on the front cover). My advice to newbies is actually quite simple:

Download BattleScribe to get your unit stats.

Download the free core rules.

Play Open War.

Rinse and repeat until you get the hang of the core rules.

Pick up a copy of the rulebook and your army's codex.

After this, most people should have a pretty good idea of what to get next. Also, there's this.

As for OP, as I said before, the necessity for Psychic Awakening depends entirely on how he wants to play. I can't speak for Chaos Space Marines, but for Dark Angels, any sort of competitive play will almost certainly need the next Psychic Awakening to stay competitive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
enchoruaging people to pirate isn't the answer,

Why not?

 Ginjitzu wrote:
What you need to have depends entirely on the type of game you are playing. Will you be playing narrative games with close friends, matched play games with strangers, competitive games in tournaments, or something else?

I haven’t thought about it, a brief description of the difference and how that affects the rules used would be helpful. Thank you

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
It’s on IOS and yes I have the enhanced edition but do not remember what made me do that, I think it I thought it had more pictures and fluffy bits. I remember reading that the ePub got updated to some extent which why I bought it over the print edition.

Yea ok you're good on points then. I have android and we get plain jane epubs with no updates.

Which is ridiculous for $35. Why not just pay another $5 and get an actual physical copy? I don't understand why gw can't make an update able version for android.

Not 100% sure but pretty sure that would require GW to write their own application(or source it). Not cheapest prospects. At least havent' seen anything similar to enchanced edition for common book format in android. They would have to make their own software for it. Mac had ready made application they could use for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jeff white wrote:

Share. I encourage people to share. With strangers. Is this wrong?

But again my personal answer is to use legend or index rules until a new edition then decide whether to follow GW any further on the way to killing the goodwill of their fan base with microtransactions

Hopefully you get shared out of your work to see the answer

Slipspace wrote:
I really hope GW is looking at posts like this (I seriously doubt they are, or that they would care if they did though). I've seen an increase in people both online and in person asking what rules they need for their army, or what PA is. It's kind of depressing to see an enthusiastic new gamer, or a returning player as I encountered yesterday with an old DA army, being really excited to play their first few games, then get increasingly confused or annoyed as you explain where all the rules are for their army and what Chapter Approved is. If you've been playing all edition it's not too bad as you're just buying a book or two a year for a single army but it's so confusing for new players right now. GW don't even have a handy guide you can look at anywhere that tells you where to get all the various rules for your own army.

This is my experience. When I played 3rd edition as a teenager you just needed the game and codex and I bought white dwarf. But I guess without the internet GW couldn’t put content out in the way it does now. If they were going to update the game I suppose it had to be a more of a big band approach. Content can be drip fed now. Which I am not saying is a bad thing, although I think they are making things a bit expensive at the minute,. It would be useful if they created a better structure for the documents required for the game and the purpose of them.

Someone has pointed out here that most of the PA books are fluff with a few pages of rules and if you need that to stay competitive, as someone else has said, then that’s quite cheeky. I’d rather buy a box set expansion that had all the additional rules for the armies and maybe some minatures like the new Mephiston dude and then choose to buy the story books.

However I expect I will buy the PA books at some point, they know we will.