Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It is not a dying game, there is a lot of animosity toward the company for marketing and other business decisions not the game itself. the only thing that tryhards are upset about is that MKIII has brought all factions in the game into close proximity power level of competitiveness so there is not the extremes in over VS underpowered factions anymore. some players don't like it when you change their performance curve.

For example in MKI CRYX always won. they were top dog at every event and in casual play. now they are mid pack. if anything I blame the attitude of some in the player base for the lack of growth in the WM/H community in recent months.

I think the level of casual play at our game nights is so much more friendly than what the rest of you have run into. until this topic came up I had never even heard of steamroller or champions.

I knew people who were super big into the game back in MKI and II but I wasn't really into it until MKIII was just releasing. and even then I was playing based on the rule of cool. the minis I use are only based on how they look. it just turned out that they preform pretty good together. I also did not super invest into the game. all told I currently have 1 caster irusk II, 3 jacks, a gun carriage, 5 solos 1 attachment and a unit of 4 for a grand total of 15 miniatures. I may get 1 more drahkuun to replace the spriggan at 75 points but that's all I care to do with the force.

I also have the book for the iron kingdoms RPG, hopefully get to play that after our current run with infinity is up on the roleplaying side of things.

As it so happens last night I got a game in, but keeping with the afore mentioned issues some people have with caster kill I played a game with a newer player who hates that aspect so we played using the unbound rules-roughly 50 points(I had to use every single non jack/warcaster model, save the wardog, I had in my small collection), no jacks (unless you have a jack marshal). it was a learning curve since I was using a new unit and he has very few games in. it was fun and he is now planning to tweek his list a bit with his jack marshal/mechanic solo and single jack added to the mix for his crucible guard for our next game.

the guy who normally shows up who has all the objective markers was a no show so we just did a straight up battle.

it looked like this-







Also 3d terrain is awesome. it adds so much more immersion to the feel of the game. I will never use the official 2d terrain.

Get rid of like, most of the Mercenary/Minion Solos,

Also I love my gobber tionker merc solo...I don't want him to go away

i got the same way with 40K playing 3+ games every saturday, well it also helped that when 6th ed dropped it was so bad that it killed 40K at the FLGS...... now WM is just one of several games i bring to game night so i can enjoy a bunch of things.

where are you looking for monpoc info?

the latest stuff was on their podcast on feb 27th for march new releases of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om1DdwrTC3M

A little addendum, as somebody familiar with the store side. GW is just as bad as anybody else. to justify distribution to non GW retailers they require a set amount of minimum purchase value and then often turn around and open GW official retail locations in close proximity to the FLGS that are already selling their product. creating negative sales pressure on the non GW enterprise. then if items do not move off the shelves rather it is WM or GW it becomes overhead cost for the FLGS.


It is one of the many reasons like those listed previously that the old supply chain model has been eclipsed by newer technology making direct sales much more viable. this is what has turned companies like amazon into the powerhouses that they are. it removes loads of costs related to retail locations -building maintenance, rent, utilities, business licenses, employees, advertising, etc..... that all cut into the overall profitability.

Ernestas

That's true of any game system. lets face the fact this is a niche market. we may love miniature wargaming but the vast majority of the public purchasing customer base is spending their money on other things entertainment wise-video games, pro sports etc.... forming a much larger market.

Then consider everything that is available in just this little niche market

warmachine, warhammer 40K , battletech, infinity, flames of war, victory at sea, DUST, heavy gear, riot quest, monpoc, bolt action, beyond the games of antares, Xwing, SW armada, SW legion, star trek attack wing, hero clix, malifuax, konflict 47, AOS, kings of war, warpath, DBA, drop zone/drop fleet commander, all quiet on the martian front, wings of war, blood bowl....and the list goes on.

Many times people don't even know many of these games exist even within the gaming community because they are so overshadowed by a few well known titles that have strong corporate support or there is nobody around that actively plays and supports them, or does so in a welcoming and supportive manner.

The hobby is great fun and good social activity, but without people to play with there is no real incentive to do more than get your modeling fix with a few display pieces

True that. classic battletech is still huge in my area. got several people hooked on it who moved back to their home states (lots of military stationed nearby) that found nobody there played it.

That leads back to the topic of press gangers and community building. if you love a game system and you want it to thrive you must share it. i personally have bought classic battltech minis for new players. along with entire epic scale 40K armies and even some DUST units to help other players get started. That's in addition to the multiple armies i always have with me to teach people how to play things like DUST and the B5 wars system(especially for use in star wars and star trek).

When it comes to WM i only have my khador army, but i am more than willing to talk shop about how the game works, factions and models with interested parties.

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
So, given the market conditions we've discussed, what was so appealing about MkII that wasn't appealing about MkIII. Warmahordes isn't something I was interested in playing, but I am interested in what is appealing about it to other people.

I liked warmachine originally because it was a mix of chess and board/card game mechanics like resource management. It was generally a great game in their steamroller format at tournaments and conventions. It wasn't nearly as interesting in a casual format.

MKIII however made a lot of core rules changes that I didn't like. For instance I never liked theme lists in MKII and MKIII made them stronger so you basically always wanted to play in theme.

Though the bigger issue with warmahordes and why I don't play MKIII much anymore is the game feels both bloated and stale. I am just kind of bored of it at this point.

See i am the opposite. i looked at WM in MKI and just could not get into it, i opted for infinity instead. i love MKIII for the most part, but then again i never play steamroller and much prefer casual games with 3d terrain and sometimes we just do army games with no warcasters(just jack marshals or their equivalent if we want jacks/warbeasts) similar to kingdom of iron but with the entire armies. i see it as something akin to warhammer fantasy with a steampunk setting in the latter version.

I also never run theme lists WM style. my theme is to take units i think look cool. my khador are a mix of manowar and winterguard units.

P.S. i looked at skorne as a hordes faction but i mainly like all the construct units-ancestral guardians, advocate zaal, supreme guardians, immortal vessels and the like. they didn't really have any beasts that i liked other than the hydra, but it did not really fit the look of the army so i never went forward with it. .

My sell for khador were clamjacks and the gun carriage. i ended up with the manowar solos just because i loved the models.

Sorry gotta disagree there lunar there are a bunch of special rules that make units unique. casters themselves are supposed to be incredibly rare and only take to the field of battle in limited actions. most of the battles in the lore are fought by the line troops like winterguard, trenchers, manowar units, stormguards, deliverers and the like.

It also prevents the caster cluster. so you can use the full table and lots of terrain.

If time and money(and space) constraints were not a thing i would definately build a rhulic 50 point list with high shields, and forge guard centered around the siege crawler for a straight up phalanx caster free battle line type game in the same vein as WHFB

anything objectively good about the system was buried under the vitriol and the uncompromisingly competitive mindset of PP fans.

That right there is the number one thing, like i said previously. started actually playing in MK III stayed away before that. game play and game mechanics for a casual game player are quite good. playing without casters (as a general steam punk style army game) or caster kill can be quite fun.

The small group i play with on my normal game night are quite enjoyable for WM players(we all play multiple game systems)...the hardcore group that plays on the day before..not so much. got an odd day off and tried to come in to play with them to get some games against different players. they were not social, only wanted to play within their own group watching each other play multiple games on the same table with 2d terrain even though my friend and i had both our armies out and a beautiful table set up with nice 3d terrain. so i ended up just playing the same i guy i normally play on the regular day. never going to bother with them again.

So the lesson is if i get people to play with my group i think the game will be fine. i cannot see any growth for it with the other group.