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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




The fallen and cypher are in the CSM codex but both have the key words imperium and chaos. I guess this is so you can play your own narrative, some of the fallen seem showing up randomly to help the DA and some have gone over to chaos.

If you were to use a fallen unit and cypher in a DA army it would seem odd to start them on the battlefield as if they are all friends.
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot






That's where it's up to you the hobbiest.

Be imaginative and make up the lore as to why the Da have chosen to fight along side fallen brothers instead of insta capture/kill?

If you''re fighting some GK's. Maybe the GK want to purge them of any chaos taint. They've ran into the main DA, Cypher being charasmatic (he did befriend bobby g and almost get a seat with the emperor) talks to the main DA HQ guy in charge and argues his case. How they will repent but only if they work together. Otherwise the GK will find out the secret and spread across the imperium.

5500
2500 
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





You can also imagine that Cypher and the Fallen are pretending to be reinforcements rather then being normal fallen, and once done will escape before DA realizes they were being assisted otherwise.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Thanks what options are there to bringing them on to the table, I can teleport in deathwing and jump packs can start up in the atmosphere. Is there an option to bring them on from the aide as some kind of reinforcement?
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

You can have Rhinos if you use their Vigilus 2 rules.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I feel so thick on these forums sometime (although only been at it for 6-7 months) but what is vigilus please?
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Hanoi, Vietnam.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Imperium-Nihilus-Vigilus-Defiant-HB-ENG-2018

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Vigilus-Ablaze-EN-hb-2019
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
You can have Rhinos if you use their Vigilus 2 rules.


They lose the IMPERIUM keyword if you do that though.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in ca
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

mrFickle wrote:
I feel so thick on these forums sometime


Please don't.

Games Workshop has created a situation where it is almost impossible to know which rules are where.

It's on them, not you.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,898pts* painted (updated 11/01/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)
* as of Chapter Approved: 2018. Not a typo.

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





 Excommunicatus wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
I feel so thick on these forums sometime


Please don't.

Games Workshop has created a situation where it is almost impossible to know which rules are where.

It's on them, not you.


Yup, at 140 rulessources it's impossible to know all.


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Thanks all. So they are extra rules like PA.

They lose the imperium keyword but what’s the point of that keyword anyway, I’ve not seen a stratagem fornit
   
Made in ca
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

So that you can take them in an Imperium Detachment/army.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,898pts* painted (updated 11/01/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)
* as of Chapter Approved: 2018. Not a typo.

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





mrFickle wrote:
The fallen and cypher are in the CSM codex but both have the key words imperium and chaos. I guess this is so you can play your own narrative, some of the fallen seem showing up randomly to help the DA and some have gone over to chaos.

If you were to use a fallen unit and cypher in a DA army it would seem odd to start them on the battlefield as if they are all friends.

I always took it to be more that Cypher and The Fallen might help other Imperium armies, rather than allying with the one faction who is aware of, and determined to end, their existence. Not to say that there's no narrative fun to be had from taking them alongside full DA. Hell, that's all Fallen are really, a bit of narrative fun.

Take a look at what I've been painting and modelling: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/725222.page 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





Another possibility is that the 'Fallen' aren't the actual fallen in your army, but rather a different SM chapter. One that's far more idiosyncratic than most.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Mmmpi wrote:
Another possibility is that the 'Fallen' aren't the actual fallen in your army, but rather a different SM chapter. One that's far more idiosyncratic than most.


It's long been traditional for people to rationalise DA vs BA fights as reports of the Death Company in their black armour being Fallen and the DA zealously hunting them down just in case. I'd be surprised if at least one Interrogator Chaplain hasn't seen his reflection or even his shadow and went full on into torture mode trying to find out who this member of The Fallen is.

FWIW the Fallen I'm currently working on are primarily a CSM force, of actual remnants from the DA Legion as well as others (mostly from one successor chapter whose Chapter Master was brought into the DA Inner Circle and proceeded to go into the Eye Of Terror to find out the truth/bring his brothers back to talk it out like grown ups) who have a wide variety of allegiances ranging from "still loyal to the Emperor" to "loyal to the Lion" to "blood skulls skullybloods raaar!" and everything in between. Being a BA player I'm well aware of how Astartes don't want to lose their brothers, even when they're gone too far (see: Death Company, Dreadnaughts, people with too much jewellery, etc) so those who are still fully loyal in their hearts are sticking with their more tainted brothers out of loyalty, or the vain hope they might redeem them. There are ones who think they're still loyal and really aren't and then there are the ones who are at least honest about their corruption.

Take a look at what I've been painting and modelling: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/725222.page 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, the ones I'm working on are random marines following a Sister Oblatia trying to die (Cypher). In the process of not dying she and her growing band have won great victories, discovered relics, and performed 'miracles'.
   
 
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