Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Simple questions, as I am not familiar with Primaris access to technology.

Is it possible to build an army with primaris models that has bolters,?
heavy weapons,?
and that rides in OG marine transports (with tracks)?
So, basically is it possible to build primaris as effectively 2 wound OG marines?

I ask because (some of) the new models are pretty nice.
I would like to mix them with my existing models, or maybe build another tac unit...

 jeff white wrote:
Simple questions, as I am not familiar with Primaris access to technology.

Is it possible to build an army with primaris models that has bolters,?
heavy weapons,?
and that rides in OG marine transports (with tracks)?
So, basically is it possible to build primaris as effectively 2 wound OG marines?

I ask because (some of) the new models are pretty nice.
I would like to mix them with my existing models, or maybe build another tac unit...

No to all of your questions.

You can build the models, just not take the gear in combination with 2W 2A in game.

Models can be Primaris or Marines, but not both.

Basically, if you're going to take Primaris models as classic Marine units, don't take any actual Primaris units, for risk of there being any confusion.

While some opponents would be more than happy to let you do both, that's not something you should rely on if you don't want to risk people turning you down.

For the actual OP:
Primaris with bolters - bolt rifles are essentially bolters, no? If you built them with old-style bolters, that honestly wouldn't be unreasonable in my eyes to count them still as Intercessors.
Primaris with heavy weapons - they have heavy plasma incinerators and las-fusils, they cover similar ground as plasma cannons (ish) and lascannons. But, if you're talking heavy bolters, missile launchers, and so on - no, they can't.
No - the only "old" transport that Primaris Marines can use is the Thunderhawk. No tracked vehicles. Of course, you could convert a Repulsor or Impulsor to be tracked, but then why would they have the Fly ability?

As for just things like a 2 Wound Tactical Squad, Assault Squad, or Devastator Squad? No, unless your idea of a Tactical Squad is just 5 guys with souped up bolters (Intercessors/Infiltrators/Incursors), your idea of an Assault Squad is footslogging guys with no power weapons or pistol upgrades (Reivers, the closest equivalent IMO) or your idea of a Devastator Squad is a squad of long range plasma weaponry on everyone, including the Sergeant (Hellblasters). However, I doubt that is what you're thinking of.


EDIT: There's nothing stopping you having both old marine units and Primaris in the same army. They still look noticeably similar, sharing the same core Space Marine aesthetic. What I've done is bolster my existing Ultramarines with some Primaris reinforcements, I just took another detachment and only took Primaris Marines in it, gave them another company marking, but otherwise, they're a coherent army.

Primaris are a wholesale replacement and soft-squatting of oldmarines. If you don't already have oldmarines it's a bad idea to start now because they will eventually be hard-squatted.

Just to clarify, the concept of "eventually" is incredibly flexible.

It's also hard for Tac Marines to get hard-squatted by Intercessors, as the only reason they're not a very reasonable alternate kit for Intercessors today is that they have their own statline.

Remove the 'Tac Marine' entry, and Tac Marines (at least the bolter squaddies, and several of their options) just become smaller Primaris.

Assault Marines and all sorts of support options for them, though, might get hard-squatted.

I'm tempted to say, "they're your models. Do what you want with them."

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Just to clarify, the concept of "eventually" is incredibly flexible.

in fluff they were already soft squated. almost every marine book, focuses mainly on primaris and in lore the normal marines more or less got wiped out.
So the classic stuff is legal to play with, which is big for someone who doesn't care much about the lore, but could be a problem for someone who does.

Karol wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Just to clarify, the concept of "eventually" is incredibly flexible.

in fluff they were already soft squated. almost every marine book, focuses mainly on primaris and in lore the normal marines more or less got wiped out.
So the classic stuff is legal to play with, which is big for someone who doesn't care much about the lore, but could be a problem for someone who does.

By that standard, every faction but Marines (or maybe just UltraMarines) has been soft squatted in practically every edition.

Primaris are getting most of the attention, but in the fluff the Marines are still around.

Define they are still around. If your a new player like me. And just go through the lore it. It is a battle brother becomes a venguard , then runs around with a hellblaster, etc yeah bikes and land speeders are mentioned, but if you don't know in advance that those can't be used by primaris or aren't maned by them. And then GW forces primaris even on chapters that should really not be willing to accept them at all. And right now even DA have them in their inner circle. Hey even the FT took them in. When was the last time we got a story about normal marines? maybe it was in the black library books, and even there am not sure if it was true. Because the two I read about the new 8th ed lore were super strange, with mutant primaris chapter masters and classic marines killing themselfs including their gene seed because they were genestealer agents all along, and only the new primaris are the real cool marines.

Karol wrote:
Define they are still around.

The fluff states that not all Marines have taken the Rubicon Primaris. Further, that not all Marine chapters use Primaris.

Your argument extends to the claim that Craftworlders have been soft-squatted because Marines get more attention.

If your a new player like me. And just go through the lore it. It is a battle brother becomes a venguard , then runs around with a hellblaster, etc yeah bikes and land speeders are mentioned, but if you don't know in advance that those can't be used by primaris or aren't maned by them. And then GW forces primaris even on chapters that should really not be willing to accept them at all. And right now even DA have them in their inner circle. Hey even the FT took them in. When was the last time we got a story about normal marines? maybe it was in the black library books, and even there am not sure if it was true. Because the two I read about the new 8th ed lore were super strange, with mutant primaris chapter masters and classic marines killing themselfs including their gene seed because they were genestealer agents all along, and only the new primaris are the real cool marines.

If you're a Marine player, your codex probably doesn't discuss Necrons very much. That doesn't mean Necrons have been soft-squatted.

carldooley wrote:I'm tempted to say, "they're your models. Do what you want with them."

The only correct answer.

Karol wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Just to clarify, the concept of "eventually" is incredibly flexible.

in fluff they were already soft squated. almost every marine book, focuses mainly on primaris and in lore the normal marines more or less got wiped out.
So the classic stuff is legal to play with, which is big for someone who doesn't care much about the lore, but could be a problem for someone who does.

As someone who does care about the lore, this isn't correct at all.

Old Marines are still around. They've not gone anywhere. They still exist in combat formations, they're still used and utilised by the vast majority of Chapters (unless if you're playing an all-Primaris Chapter, but if you're the OP, who's looking at adding to an existing collection, this isn't a problem.).

Most fiction books focus on Primaris because they're new, and there's a bevy of stories to tell about them. If they didn't talk about them, then you'd have people saying "where are the Primaris, how do they fit in the Chapters, GW's just written terrible fluff again and not explained anything" etc etc. Old Marines haven't been written out, they've not been ignored, the writers are just exploring other stories at the moment.

Karol wrote:Define they are still around. If your a new player like me. And just go through the lore it. It is a battle brother becomes a venguard , then runs around with a hellblaster, etc yeah bikes and land speeders are mentioned, but if you don't know in advance that those can't be used by primaris or aren't maned by them.

I think they make it pretty clear that it's only an example of how a Space Marine can progress. Compared to the decades of lore outlining how a normal Marine goes up the rankings (which I'm fairly sure is still there too!), the Primaris getting one entry explaining a pretty interesting part of their background is hardly "writing out old marines".

And then GW forces primaris even on chapters that should really not be willing to accept them at all.

Which Chapters can you name that have the political clout to flat out refuse the Custodes, and a returned Primarch?
Space Wolves? Too pragmatic to refuse new men-at-arms, plus they took a massive beating only just before. Needed the aid, and couldn't afford to make an enemy of the rest of the Imperium.
Dark Angels? Similarly weakened, and know that it's easier to just play heel to Guilliman and the Custodes - and, as many books outlined, they *initially* kept Primaris Marines at a distance.
So, what other Chapters?

And right now even DA have them in their inner circle.

Yes, in the same way they promote any other Marine into their Inner Circle. You thought they never recruited anyone new in?
What has happened is people have assumed that all Primaris Marines are made up of those first batch ones, the ones who took part in the INdomitus Crusade - however, since then, we've had Primaris Marines created like normal Marines within the Chapter, and existing heroes have been upgraded themselves. There was never a reason for these Space Marines not to be inducted.

Hey even the FT took them in.

Because Dante, serving as Guilliman's right hand man, used his authority as the head of the Sons of Sanguinius to do so. And guess what - the Flesh Tearers don't like that! It wasn't just "they accepted it like a good boy", they hate the fact they have Primaris Marines - but they don't really have a choice but to accept, because of the political situation. Which is interesting, far more than "lol no".

When was the last time we got a story about normal marines?

Off the top of my head, I can name Knights of Macragge (two named Primaris characters, both supporting the old Marine characters), and I think it's Honour and Iron that has a Firstborn Chaplain as the main character, leading a squad of new Primaris - hey, look, they work together!

Let's be honest, we've had how many years of books with old Marine characters? I'm sure a few new ones discussing Primaris Marines won't hurt. And, given time, I'm sure there really won't be a difference if the main character is wearing Mark X or Mark VII plate or not.

maybe it was in the black library books, and even there am not sure if it was true. Because the two I read about the new 8th ed lore were super strange, with mutant primaris chapter masters and classic marines killing themselfs including their gene seed because they were genestealer agents all along, and only the new primaris are the real cool marines.

Errr, source on that?

I just wish that gw would come out and make all marines primaris profile... then i would be interested in buying them, with them being primaris models.

OG ?

 godardc wrote:
OG ?

Slang for original.

Nothing stopping anyone from buying any of the "old" marines however just don't expect any future support for them, i.e. new releases and rules etc.

They won't be taken off the shelves any time soon but I'd expect the range to slowly transition to direct order only as time passes

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 godardc wrote:
OG ?

Slang for original.

"Original ganster" if I may...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And regarding the squatting, the regular marine kit is excellent quality. It was released in 2012. Compare this to the cadian shock troops, released 2003 I think. Those are not up to standards and still in production today!

Gw has released their primaris, and dont need to update their regular maribe range. But so what? They'll probably stay in production for at least 10 years. The whole reason primaris exists is that they wanted to sell more marines but the current line was too good to replace. So they added another line parallel/on top of the existing one.

If you like the regular marines then use them. Those kits will mix better with your current collection anyhow and can use the transports you already own.

Gitdakka wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 godardc wrote:
OG ?

Slang for original.

"Original ganster" if I may...

Seems to have moved on from that, but yes - that's the "OG" definition. (pun certainly intended)

And regarding the squatting, the regular marine kit is excellent quality. It was released in 2012. Compare this to the cadian shock troops, released 2003 I think. Those are not up to standards and still in production today!

I think the Cadians are still fine IMO, but definitely agreed that the current SM kits are pretty fine all round. They're quite modern, have a lot of bitz, easy to assemble, and still hold up well. Honestly, GW don't *need* to update the sculpts for the sake of it - they're good as is.

Obviously, there are some sculpts that I do think need some update (Bikes, Scouts, Terminators, and even the Command Squad sprue is getting a little fuzzy these days), but the core range (Tacticals, Assaults, Devastators, HQs, tanks)? All still functional and good looking.