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I recently got back into 40k and finally have a full grasp of the rules and what is needed to play Tyranids (it's pretty simple, tyranid codex and big rule book). However, I have a bunch of old space marines from years ago when I tried to play. Problem is, it seems there are SO MANY supplementary rulebooks for space marines that I have no idea where to start. I'd like to not spend a ton of money just on the rulebooks so the simpler the better. All I have anyway are a bunch of tactical squads, rhinos, dreadnaughts and terminators so I can probably play any faction.

Thanks!

Battlescribe and 1d4 Chan

Minimum is the current space marine codex (or maybe the Dark angels/Blood Angels/Space Wolves codex instead - depends upon what you've got).

After that, THEN worry about adding extra books.

Plenty of black paint

The only things you *need* are the core rules (free download!) and Codex: Space Marines. If you feel like spicing up your gameplay further down the line, you can pick out a supplement that will give your guys more options. However, that's completely optional.

40 intercessor and an chapter master

Codex and rulebook is all you need to play.

Once you have established yourself with an army and learned the game you can expand with supplements, chapter approved and forgeworld rules.

Considering the state of the game post-Marine-Codex-2.0; the correct answer is "self-restraint".

The Newman wrote:
Considering the state of the game post-Marine-Codex-2.0; the correct answer is "self-restraint".

State of the game is fine.
Maybe not if using homebrew missions :-P

I dunno, the number of books you have to buy for space marines is directly proportional to how much you want to slowly run out of opponents as people quietly decide not to play you anymore while folks on the internet cheerfully reassure you that everything is fine.

If it were me, the answer would be "Codex Space Marines 2.0" and the rulebook. And that's where I'd go ahead and stop.

T1nk4bell wrote:
40 intercessor and an chapter master

I would say 55 intercessors. 5-6 dudes to be characters like librarians, capts, Lts etc then 9 eliminators and 2-3 dreads, don't even have to be optimised FW chaplain or leviathan dreads, even normal or primaris dread do more then allright.

Doesn't cost much, plays well and can be covered in paint in a single weekend.

the_scotsman wrote:
I dunno, the number of books you have to buy for space marines is directly proportional to how much you want to slowly run out of opponents as people quietly decide not to play you anymore while folks on the internet cheerfully reassure you that everything is fine.

If it were me, the answer would be "Codex Space Marines 2.0" and the rulebook. And that's where I'd go ahead and stop.

This is absolute rubbish. If you make a thematic Ultramarines, Raven Guard, Salamanders, Black Templat, etc list the codex is absolutely fine.

Sure, you can focus on some powerful Iron Hands lists, or build armies focused around certain unit interactions that are too strong.

 Ishagu wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I dunno, the number of books you have to buy for space marines is directly proportional to how much you want to slowly run out of opponents as people quietly decide not to play you anymore while folks on the internet cheerfully reassure you that everything is fine.

If it were me, the answer would be "Codex Space Marines 2.0" and the rulebook. And that's where I'd go ahead and stop.

This is absolute rubbish. If you make a thematic Ultramarines, Raven Guard, Salamanders, Black Templat, etc list the codex is absolutely fine.

Sure, you can focus on some powerful Iron Hands lists, or build armies focused around certain unit interactions that are too strong.

Sure. And when you include a fluffy unit of aggressors in your ultramarine list, hit turn 2 and hose 40-50 GEQ off the board in a single round of shooting. And mysteriously, people end up having games with other people the next time round.

Marines are beatable, especially in a casual setting, and sure, you can definitely come up with combinations of units that are fine to play with doctrines, even bad. The marine roster is enormous. But just like playing eldar in 7th edition, you now have far and away the most powerful codex in the game, and it becomes a matter of restraining yourself from taking options that will curbstomp your opponents and make you have trouble getting games in the future.

I can only speak from my own experience, but we've got about 50 regular players and a bunch of the non-marine players either don't show up as often or don't show up at all, and we've got multiple people each week specifically requesting games against non-marine opponents. 2-3 marine players each week post that they're looking for a game, get ignored, and end up pairing up with other marine players.

It is exactly the same as the people who were playing Eldar in 7th edition. People play a game that they don't feel like they stand a chance of winning, and they just quietly decide they'll seek out other opponents.

You're still talking Rubbish. Ultramarines have a win rate below 50% from data collected, so if you've never won perhaps the issue is your ability or army?

Yes, there are specific chapter and unit combinations that are very powerful, but it's extremely east to make an Astartes list which is not overbearing. Are Iron Hands too good? Yeah, a few things can be toned down. Are Centurions too good with certain chapter combinations? Yes, but with others they are still rubbish.

I do know this: I've been playing a 1000 pt White Scars successor list with a Khan on a Bike (Khan's scimitar and the +d3 attacks trait), a Primaris Libby (Lighting Calls, Storm Wreathed, and the 5+ overwatch helm), two Autobolter Intercessors with PF upgrades for the serg, Incursors, 6 regular bikes with Chainswords, two Attack Bike squads with a Heavy Bolter and Multimelta each, and Terminators with a Cyclone launcher.

That's pretty darn un-optimized, and I restrict myself to the White Scars strats on top of that.

I still get complaints about Marines being too strong.

People parrot what they hear online, nothing new there

 Ishagu wrote:
You're still talking Rubbish. Ultramarines have a win rate below 50% from data collected, so if you've never won perhaps the issue is your ability or army?

Yes, there are specific chapter and unit combinations that are very powerful, but it's extremely east to make an Astartes list which is not overbearing. Are Iron Hands too good? Yeah, a few things can be toned down. Are Centurions too good with certain chapter combinations? Yes, but with others they are still rubbish.

After the first initial couple losses where I didn't know their crazy stratagems and rules (and after the Salamanders "Everything is a Character" stratagem got fixed..lol...), my winrate against numarines has been fairly solid. The games haven't been any fun at all, but I've won them, generally by frontloading into an enormous alpha strike and smashing the marine deathblob into bits turn 2 so that I'm the one tabling turn 3 instead of being tabled turn 3.

The winrate of ultramarines in competitive ITC tournament matches doesn't mean boo to a casual playerbase where people have their model collections and have had them for years. to give you an idea, of our 50 regular players maybe 5-6 bring any allies at all and all but 1 of them was just "add a knight to your army because it's cool".

So when marines got a gigantic boost for the low low price of not taking soup, that was just a huge free buff and suddenly you get all these games ending in tabling turn 3, I've even seen top of turn 2 more than once where the two players just mill around watching other people after the first hour.

Sure, you can bring your own glass cannon list and blow away the marines...or you could just play something other than marines and have an actually decent game that lasts more than 2 hours.

This is basically the same discussion that gets had any time Tau and Eldar are overpoweringly strong in competitive play using uninteractive gunline mechanics: People just get bored of playing gunballs. Like, really fast. One or two games against them, you know what they're gonna do, you know what units are in there, and you know they're never leaving their deployment zone.

Playing primaris marines is exactly like playing gunball Tau.

In all fairness, even casual Marines feel too strong for my liking, and I play that. It's why I don't play doctrines at all, and very rarely use the abilities granted by supplements. If something crops up where I'm like "I definitely actually do want to use that", then I'll point that out, but I don't use it all the time.

And example of this being the Ultramarines ability to count as stationary in Tactical Doctrine - I won't use it on every unit, and am more than happy to suffer a -1 to hit on most units, but I do like having my Aggressors alone benefit from it. So, my trade-off is that I will very sparingly say "yeah, so I have this rule, but I've been deliberately not using it, because I don't want to be a dick - I'd like to use it here though."

 Ishagu wrote:
Codex and rulebook is all you need to play.

Once you have established yourself with an army and learned the game you can expand with supplements, chapter approved and forgeworld rules.

Exactly this. Ignore everyone who tells you that you need to carry over 100 publications to be able to play

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Codex and rulebook is all you need to play.

Once you have established yourself with an army and learned the game you can expand with supplements, chapter approved and forgeworld rules.

Exactly this. Ignore everyone who tells you that you need to carry over 100 publications to be able to play

only if you do it the way you say, the person will end up with models they will never use. If you go straight for a specific build you want, you would be spending less money. Then trying to experiment, and later being forced to run the good stuff anyway.

Codex, Rule Book and likely Chapter Approved. Codex has the base of the rules you need to play, Rule Book has the game's core rules, and Chapter Approved has missions and is essential if you play using points. If you're going to play without allies, the supplements are basically free power boosts to your army, so I'd also recommend using them.

 Ishagu wrote:
You're still talking Rubbish. Ultramarines have a win rate below 50% from data collected, so if you've never won perhaps the issue is your ability or army?

Yes, there are specific chapter and unit combinations that are very powerful, but it's extremely east to make an Astartes list which is not overbearing. Are Iron Hands too good? Yeah, a few things can be toned down. Are Centurions too good with certain chapter combinations? Yes, but with others they are still rubbish.

why would someone buy centurions for an army that doesn't have the traits that makes them good, and if they already own multiple centurions and wanted to use them, why wouldn't they use the traits and rules to make them good. Both situations situations seems rather surreal.

Anecdotally, I’ve stopped playing SM because they’re too powerful.

Your mileage may vary, but be warned.

Karol wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
You're still talking Rubbish. Ultramarines have a win rate below 50% from data collected, so if you've never won perhaps the issue is your ability or army?

Yes, there are specific chapter and unit combinations that are very powerful, but it's extremely east to make an Astartes list which is not overbearing. Are Iron Hands too good? Yeah, a few things can be toned down. Are Centurions too good with certain chapter combinations? Yes, but with others they are still rubbish.

why would someone buy centurions for an army that doesn't have the traits that makes them good, and if they already own multiple centurions and wanted to use them, why wouldn't they use the traits and rules to make them good. Both situations situations seems rather surreal.

Because they like how Centurions look? Or because they just like their fluff and theme?

I happily use an Ultramarines list, but I very rarely play with their supplement rules, and I don't touch a supplement for my successor Chapter.

Karol wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
You're still talking Rubbish. Ultramarines have a win rate below 50% from data collected, so if you've never won perhaps the issue is your ability or army?

Yes, there are specific chapter and unit combinations that are very powerful, but it's extremely east to make an Astartes list which is not overbearing. Are Iron Hands too good? Yeah, a few things can be toned down. Are Centurions too good with certain chapter combinations? Yes, but with others they are still rubbish.

why would someone buy centurions for an army that doesn't have the traits that makes them good, and if they already own multiple centurions and wanted to use them, why wouldn't they use the traits and rules to make them good. Both situations situations seems rather surreal.

....asks the Grey Knight player.

Aside from giving you crap, let's see about some reasons.

1) They just like the looks &/or lore for the models.
Seriously, I've built entire armies (yes, plural. For multiple editions/systems, not just GWs stuff) based upon "that looks cool". I'll worry about how to win with it as a secondary concern. But as long as I like the models? Then Win or Lose, I WILL have an enjoyable time playing them.

2) Just because the rules shift doesn't mean you have to stop playing models you like. (or start playing models you dislike) Or suddenly stop playing the army as the force you painted it up as - you know, it was painted it up as _____ for a reason.

3) Like yourself with your GK, this hypothetical Centurion player didn't do their research....

Karol wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Codex and rulebook is all you need to play.

Once you have established yourself with an army and learned the game you can expand with supplements, chapter approved and forgeworld rules.

Exactly this. Ignore everyone who tells you that you need to carry over 100 publications to be able to play

only if you do it the way you say, the person will end up with models they will never use. If you go straight for a specific build you want, you would be spending less money. Then trying to experiment, and later being forced to run the good stuff anyway.

I disagree. Someone new to the hobby the best advice you can give them is collect whatever models they like the look of and captures their interest.

Besides, the question isn't what do I need to play in a cutthroat competitive environment - it's what do I need to play and Ishagu answered that perfectly.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

Karol wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Codex and rulebook is all you need to play.

Once you have established yourself with an army and learned the game you can expand with supplements, chapter approved and forgeworld rules.

Exactly this. Ignore everyone who tells you that you need to carry over 100 publications to be able to play

only if you do it the way you say, the person will end up with models they will never use. If you go straight for a specific build you want, you would be spending less money. Then trying to experiment, and later being forced to run the good stuff anyway.

I disagree. Someone new to the hobby the best advice you can give them is collect whatever models they like the look of and captures their interest.

Besides, the question isn't what do I need to play in a cutthroat competitive environment - it's what do I need to play and Ishagu answered that perfectly.

Indeed. fact is yesterday's super powered army is tomorrow's trash tier. stats and power levels chaneg with time, but the lore and look of an army is forever (retcons and complete line ravamps aside) One would think Karol would know that

BrianDavion wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

Karol wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Codex and rulebook is all you need to play.

Once you have established yourself with an army and learned the game you can expand with supplements, chapter approved and forgeworld rules.

Exactly this. Ignore everyone who tells you that you need to carry over 100 publications to be able to play

only if you do it the way you say, the person will end up with models they will never use. If you go straight for a specific build you want, you would be spending less money. Then trying to experiment, and later being forced to run the good stuff anyway.

I disagree. Someone new to the hobby the best advice you can give them is collect whatever models they like the look of and captures their interest.

Besides, the question isn't what do I need to play in a cutthroat competitive environment - it's what do I need to play and Ishagu answered that perfectly.

Indeed. fact is yesterday's super powered army is tomorrow's trash tier. stats and power levels chaneg with time, but the lore and look of an army is forever (retcons and complete line ravamps aside) One would think Karol would know that

Didn't you know that absolutely every FLGS/club/group of friends/whatever only ever plays the single same way that every single other one does?!

If I were GW reading this thread I'd be very worried, and not because of all the talk about how broken SM are. They now have so many rulebooks and supplements that somebody who would really like to give them money can't because they don't know what it is they need to buy. When your system becomes so bloated and convoluted you're actively blocking people from giving you money it might be time to re-evaluate that system.

To answer the OP more fully, you'll need:

1. The Space Marine Codex and likely Chapter Approved 2019 too. If you play Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights or Deathwatch you don't need the Space Marine Codex. Instead you need the relevant Codex for your Chpater.
2. Optionally, there are a number of supplements for various SM chapters. If you're playing one of those or their successors it would be quite handy to have those too. They're not required but are very useful.
3. Finally, the Psychic Awakening supplements contain rules for Space Marines too. Faith and Fury has rules for Black Templars and upgraded Space Marine characters. Blood of Baal has Blood Angels rules (and updated Tyranid rules for your other army) and Ritual of the Damned has Dark Angels and Grey Knights rules in it. Again, none of these are required to play the respective Chapters but they are very, very useful.

Finally, it should be noted that Space Marines at the moment are by far the strongest faction and many players are wary about playing against them because when they're operating at full power they are pretty overwhelming for many armies to face. In a more casual setting it's certainly possible to tone down a Marine army to be much less powerful but one thing that many people find frustrating when playing against Marines is the sheer volume of rules they have, which gives the illusion of unfairness even when it might not be entirely unfair to play against. Most gaming groups naturally reach an equilibrium with this sort of thing but it's something to be aware of if you're going to play Space Marines. Hopefully GW release some balance updates for them in the near future.

I didn't think Space Marines got any changes in the most recent chapter approved, seeing as their codex came out just before the book?

I'll be honest I've not purchased any chapter approved since we just buy one each year with club funds and keep it in the central cabinet for communal use. So I've read the missions and new terrain rules but I just use the battlescribe app for my points.