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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




This box set was meant to be the turning point for the eldar and dark eldar the big release. Brand new aspect warriors in plastic moving forward the storyline. Cool new incubi.instead it had probably the worst sales a box set released by games workshop has had in this newer era. All the independent game stores still have hundreds of these boxes gathering dust. I think the poor sales have completely killed eldar and dark eldar releases for the next few years and possibly could see them squatted further down the line. Certaintly we wont be seeing any more plastic aspect warriors for a long long time.

Maybe just not enough people collect them.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Or maybe the box was overpriced and stuffed to the gills with ancient kits for one of the sides?

But yes, squatting the xenos would be a good thing, it'd finally snap some people out of the delusion that GW cares about anything but marines.
   
Made in gb
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




Cronch wrote:
Or maybe the box was overpriced and stuffed to the gills with ancient kits for one of the sides?

But yes, squatting the xenos would be a good thing, it'd finally snap some people out of the delusion that GW cares about anything but marines.


I know right, it's like the next campaign book has more than 0 marine factions.
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

Icegoat wrote:
This box set was meant to be the turning point for the eldar and dark eldar the big release.




You're kidding, right?


Icegoat wrote:
Brand new aspect warriors in plastic moving forward the storyline. Cool new incubi.


'Oh, hey, Eldar players, you know how most of your model line is 20 years old? Well good news, we're updating a single Aspect Warrior kit!'

'And Dark Eldar players, you know how we gutted your entire codex? No, we're still not going to give you any of the HQs we removed, but look - here's a new Incubi kit and updated Drazhar kit no one asked for!'

'Sorry, those two kits are the absolute limit of what our manufacturing is capable of. Now if you'll excuse us, we need to make 400 new Primaris models because there hasn't been a Marine release in the last nanosecond.'


Icegoat wrote:
instead it had probably the worst sales a box set released by games workshop has had in this newer era. All the independent game stores still have hundreds of these boxes gathering dust.


Well, honestly, what were you expecting?

It was a pathetic number of new models, shoved together with ancient and garbage Eldar and DE models that either no one uses or every player already has a million of.

Also, the book was an even bigger insult. You know how everyone else got new Warlord Traits, Stratagems, Artefacts etc.? Well, not being a Marine release, Eldar and Dark Eldar got bugger all of any of those. it was literally a pile of utter dross that no one put any effort into and that they couldn't even be bothered finishing, so instead they just packaged it with the godawful Ynnari rules to pad it out, and pretended it was an actual release.


Icegoat wrote:
I think the poor sales have completely killed eldar and dark eldar releases for the next few years and possibly could see them squatted further down the line. Certaintly we wont be seeing any more plastic aspect warriors for a long long time.


No, what killed Eldar and Dark Eldar was GW's complete apathy towards them. Whether or not this release sold was a lose-lose prospect for Eldar/DE players. if it sells well, then GW knows that Eldar and DE players will eagerly buy the laziest, shoddiest gak they put to print. If it doesn't sell well, then clearly Eldar and DE aren't profitable.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in de
Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

I really doubt it, they are very popular factions. It might have let GW find the price ceiling for their boxed sets, since this one was worse value than usual.

I would probably have picked it up if it was not so over priced.

GW seems to over price a lot of Eldar stuff in particular, like the Dire Avengers are priced crazy high for 5 models.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

I wouldn't take Icegoat too seriously - he's migrated over from TGA forums where he was mostly saying the same kind of things about armies as well. KO are dead because their duel boxed set didn't sell out in a day; Cities are dead because they don't have endless spells etc...


He's already saying that Necrons, Eldar and now Dark Eldar are all for the chop based on basically nothing - and that's in just two posts

A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





The boxset was priced horribly for units that no one really wants anymore. bad move on GW with contents, nothing wrong with the new models.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




who knows maybe GW is going to do some big change to all xeno armies. Orks could dramaticly change under their new warboss, necrons could change when the shadow king returns. Maybe eldar of different shapes of forms turn in to being Inari, or something else.

If GW could pull off changing marine lore so much, and marines are their top seller, why couldn't they change other stuff.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Karol wrote:
who knows maybe GW is going to do some big change to all xeno armies. Orks could dramaticly change under their new warboss, necrons could change when the shadow king returns. Maybe eldar of different shapes of forms turn in to being Inari, or something else.

If GW could pull off changing marine lore so much, and marines are their top seller, why couldn't they change other stuff.


I'm fairly certain that if there was a grand plan to lump all eldar together into Ynnari, that got scrapped based on the universally negative reaction to Ynnari by the entire playerbase including Eldar players who hated having their stuff see repeated nerfs because of some stupid combo-faction they didn't play.

The fact that Ynnari have been crammed into a back corner with basically the worst rules of any faction in the entire game (and yes, now that GK have gotten PA rules we absolutely CAN say that) and have seen precisely zero model releases since they were dropped like 3 years ago to make them anything resembling a real army should pretty much indicate how much GW cares about them.

   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Your probably right. They do some wierd stuff sometimes. But am no economics professor, and they seem to be doing great. so if it works, it works.
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

the_scotsman wrote:
Karol wrote:
who knows maybe GW is going to do some big change to all xeno armies. Orks could dramaticly change under their new warboss, necrons could change when the shadow king returns. Maybe eldar of different shapes of forms turn in to being Inari, or something else.

If GW could pull off changing marine lore so much, and marines are their top seller, why couldn't they change other stuff.


I'm fairly certain that if there was a grand plan to lump all eldar together into Ynnari, that got scrapped based on the universally negative reaction to Ynnari by the entire playerbase including Eldar players who hated having their stuff see repeated nerfs because of some stupid combo-faction they didn't play.

The fact that Ynnari have been crammed into a back corner with basically the worst rules of any faction in the entire game (and yes, now that GK have gotten PA rules we absolutely CAN say that) and have seen precisely zero model releases since they were dropped like 3 years ago to make them anything resembling a real army should pretty much indicate how much GW cares about them.


But what about all the genius marketing?

You know, like packaging together Eldar and DE models into a Ynnari force, even though the two special characters they were trying to showcase can never be taken as Ynnari.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Spawning Champion





 Overread wrote:
I wouldn't take Icegoat too seriously - he's migrated over from TGA forums where he was mostly saying the same kind of things about armies as well. KO are dead because their duel boxed set didn't sell out in a day; Cities are dead because they don't have endless spells etc...


He's already saying that Necrons, Eldar and now Dark Eldar are all for the chop based on basically nothing - and that's in just two posts


Dakka is much more negative about things, and while it's fun to read some of the posts over there, seeing I here is just an eye roll away from being posted on BoLS and Spikeybits as "Rumors".

PourSpelur wrote:
It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
Hazaak Dynasty - 3400 pts
Seraphon - 4600pts
 
   
Made in ca
Fully-charged Electropriest






the_scotsman wrote:

The fact that Ynnari have been crammed into a back corner with basically the worst rules of any faction in the entire game (and yes, now that GK have gotten PA rules we absolutely CAN say that) and have seen precisely zero model releases since they were dropped like 3 years ago to make them anything resembling a real army should pretty much indicate how much GW cares about them.



The ynnari "chapter tactic" sucks but they have access to some ridiculously powerful warlord traits and relics at least.

Admech 5000
Drukhari 4000
2500
500
Imperial knights 1200

 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 vipoid wrote:


But what about all the genius marketing?

You know, like packaging together Eldar and DE models into a Ynnari force, even though the two special characters they were trying to showcase can never be taken as Ynnari.

4d chess, all I can say about that.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




You may be right, but I don't think so.

As soon as they release the new models as separates, they'll scream off the shelves and GW will realize it was the combining of the models that lead to poor sales, not the models themselves.

Sisters individual boxes are selling better than the sisters big box too. I think you'll see fewer big boxes, not fewer Eldar.
   
Made in gb
Ambitious Space Wolves Initiate





It was a very odd release. I know less about the DE, but for the Eldar it was two 2nd edition (i think?) models with just one new squad, which aren't even available separately if you want more, and no other releases for them whatsoever. No idea who it was aimed at, or was gonna spend £140 on it.

It would be interested how Wake the Dead, or even Tooth and Claw did, I assume they just keep them until they sell out so presume they met their targets, but both included Primaris which helps a lot. I know my local store has had big issues shifting Wrath and Rapture despite it being both AoS and 40k suitable.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/29 14:58:34


 
   
Made in gb
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker




Southampton, UK

 Shooter wrote:
It was a very odd release. I know less about the DE, but for the Eldar it was two 2nd edition (i think?) models with just one new squad, which aren't even available separately if you want more, and no other releases for them whatsoever. No idea who it was aimed at, or was gonna spend £140 on it.


The DE range was re-done more recently than that, but otherwise it was basically the same deal. Re-sculpted character + squad, and some existing stuff that people will pretty much already own if they want.
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

The fact that Ynnari have been crammed into a back corner with basically the worst rules of any faction in the entire game (and yes, now that GK have gotten PA rules we absolutely CAN say that) and have seen precisely zero model releases since they were dropped like 3 years ago to make them anything resembling a real army should pretty much indicate how much GW cares about them.



The ynnari "chapter tactic" sucks but they have access to some ridiculously powerful warlord traits and relics at least.


The biggest problem with Ynnari is that their rules are locked behind 3 special characters.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






Blood of the Phoenix was a garbage box. It's also still the only way to get the new models...

The biggest issue is that we learned that new plastic Aspect Warriors are going to be boxes of five models. That means at the very minimum, $35 per box or, worst case scenario $40-45. This means you're looking at a total cost of $70-90 for 10 models which are Toughness 3, 1 wound...etc. Similar to Sisters of Battle.

That puts them more expensive than larger models like Primaris marines which are already $60 per 10.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






List of bad things with that box

1) Put cool models everyone has been waiting for behind a pay wall
2) Make it Ynnari focus with characters that can't be Ynnari
3) Add in other units and models all players have lots of and don't play them b.c the rules suck
4) Have great time to fix said rules, DOESN'T FIX RULES
5) Cost to high even for splinting the box
6) DE players actually wanted Vect, other named hero and Mounted Heroes back... well we got plastic units no one plays!
7) Faction traits could have been made to mix and match DE units... FAIL ON GW PART, just more 3 way tug of war for detachments/points

Will GW screw of Xeno b.c of this failed Released? No, b.c they already screw over DE and other Xeno's whenever they can so its nothing new.

Personally the traits could have been perfect to mix and match the army like it should be, GW failed so hard with this release its not even fun.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/29 16:43:53


15k+
:harlequin: 4k
Beastmen 9500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in gb
Furious Fire Dragon




I really hope this isn't the case.
Personally I was happy with the box because I wanted the new sculpts and the falcon to make a third one and I was planning to at least ally in some dark eldar but after buying the Christmas box I'm planning a full drukhari force. But I'm happy to admit to Yan edge case.
Craftworlds seems to be up there in terms of xenos popularity from both a competitive and collection, maybe even the most popular if dakka polls are to be trusted. This is despite how old a lot of the range is. I'm pretty confident that separate boxes of the aspects would sell very well. I think we'll see a big wave of craftworlds releases at some point, just not sure when.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Karol wrote:
who knows maybe GW is going to do some big change to all xeno armies. Orks could dramaticly change under their new warboss, necrons could change when the shadow king returns. Maybe eldar of different shapes of forms turn in to being Inari, or something else.

If GW could pull off changing marine lore so much, and marines are their top seller, why couldn't they change other stuff.

I don't go on the Internet and tell everyone your nightmares.....

But seriously, this thread is dumb because almost every part of the OP is moronic. BOTP sold badly because it was bad.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in ca
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

Does anyone have anything even resembling a fact that would tend to show that it did actually not sell well?

My FLGS still has Dark Imperium boxes, so I guess that means 40K didn't sell well and is about to get Melta'd. Because anecdotal evidence based on tiny sample sizes are best evidence.

I'm not arguing that BoP is an amazing box and GW are geniuses for releasing it, I just wonder how many of the OP's naked assertions are actually borne out.


The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,898pts* painted (updated 11/01/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)
* as of Chapter Approved: 2018. Not a typo.

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Crispy78 wrote:
 Shooter wrote:
It was a very odd release. I know less about the DE, but for the Eldar it was two 2nd edition (i think?) models with just one new squad, which aren't even available separately if you want more, and no other releases for them whatsoever. No idea who it was aimed at, or was gonna spend £140 on it.


The DE range was re-done more recently than that, but otherwise it was basically the same deal. Re-sculpted character + squad, and some existing stuff that people will pretty much already own if they want.


Not just that, but Incubi and Hellions both are abysmal game-wise, and in the case of Hellions they came out with a boxed game a little while back that had 10x hellions and 6x Reavers and it was priced so cartoonishly low that you got a discount even if you bought it just for the two reaver kits (and reavers were a competitive choice at the time).

I bought two boxes of that - I never ever ever ever need hellions ever again. So did every other DE player I know.

Falcon, Banshees, Jain Zar, Incubi, Hellions, Vyper - All bottom of the barrel terrible, generally old kits

Venom, Scourges, new Drazar - decent units

Price - extremely high for an army box set, worst discount we've seen in a while.

Gwarsh, I wonder why this didn't sell well? It's like, if you came out with a brand fancy new space marine battle box and it was like

"WOW check out the new awesome space marine box, you get

-5x Tactical Terminators
-5x Scouts
-New Sgt Telion sculpt (same rules)
-New Sicarius sculpt (same rules)
-Land Speeder
-Ironclad Dreadnought
-2x Attack Bikes

Wow are you psyched??? 250$ please!"

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/29 18:53:12


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I am in complete agreement with every one saying the box was a poor release it was terrible value the old unit options were mind boggling boring and stale and the new units were five man units and a special. Awful but the box has been recieved so badly I just don't know why gw will ever gamble on the eldar or de again.when a battle box of marines sells out in hours and sisters of battle minutes why and how could the bean counters justify pouring more money and resources and time into these two factions they made a massive loss on. I think those 25 year old warlocks will see through another decade at least.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




the_scotsman wrote:
"WOW check out the new awesome space marine box, you get

-5x Tactical Terminators
-5x Scouts
-New Sgt Telion sculpt (same rules)
-New Sicarius sculpt (same rules)
-Land Speeder
-Ironclad Dreadnought
-2x Attack Bikes

Wow are you psyched??? 250$ please!"


The thing is, at least this would *vaguely* be an army? Grab a box of intercessors and you have a battalion. Not a good army by any stretch - but something.

The Eldar/DE forces made no sense. You can't even build patrols out of these forces.
And as you say - for all the cry GW does this - its not as if the new stuff was "omg wut overpowered, if you are playing Eldar/DE you need Banshees/Incubi and the special characters."
You have two melee characters with weak delivery systems, and two infantry units that are maybe okay against relic from a dark age MEQ, but are bad versus Primaris, and suck versus both hordes or vehicles.

But yeah. I think it should have been about £100, not £140. Someone at GW probably went "yeah but the two characters are £20 each, and the units about £30, so, thats £100, you can't have all that stuff for free" but... are they really selling any Hellions? Falcons? Vypers?

But then what do you do having balkanised DE to the point Incubi don't really exist?
   
Made in ca
Fully-charged Electropriest






 Excommunicatus wrote:
Does anyone have anything even resembling a fact that would tend to show that it did actually not sell well?

My FLGS still has Dark Imperium boxes, so I guess that means 40K didn't sell well and is about to get Melta'd. Because anecdotal evidence based on tiny sample sizes are best evidence.

I'm not arguing that BoP is an amazing box and GW are geniuses for releasing it, I just wonder how many of the OP's naked assertions are actually borne out.




Dark imperium is still being printed as it is the starter set for the edition. BotP isnt, what is seen in stores everywhere are the same boxes they got on their first orders, at least in my area. Elf players in my area won't even split the box because of how obscenely expensive it is (280CAD) and even if the box was cheaper, the named cahracters in it mean that buying multiples makes little sense.

Admech 5000
Drukhari 4000
2500
500
Imperial knights 1200

 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

Oh, another bit of joy with the box kit - they gave the Dark Eldar side 5 Incubi, Drazhar and a Venom.

Given that Venoms can only ever transport 5 models, Drazhar can't even ride with his own men. And since there are no other models, either he or his Incubi won't be riding at all.

Top marks, GW.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





this boixed set released 3 months ago, why are we complaining about it again? did something change?

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







BrianDavion wrote:
this boixed set released 3 months ago, why are we complaining about it again? did something change?


Icegoat registered on Dakka and decided that trying to start a grassroots campaign to squat Eldar is the best way of getting more space on the release schedule for the Necrons.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using. 
   
 
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