Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello,

There a nice thread going about Dune and other sources or inspiration that GW have used to create their world. What I would like to ask is what is:

What is your favourite, truly original GW concept in 40k?

Your first problem is finding any original concepts in 40k

How about:
Aspect shrines and warriors of the Eldar Craftworlds. How the Eldar Paths work, and the training most Craftworlders get during their long lives.

I don’t know a great deal about the eldar but my first thought is they are Tolkien elves in space. Does that count as original? If not does adding something original to something unoriginal really count

Orks are Orcs ins space, I don’t feel I can call them original but their story is I think. The waaaaagh is as far as I know.

I think the Great Game is GW.

Eh, pretty much most of Chaos (which includes the Great Game) was inspired by Michael Moorcock's work. That being said, one would be hard pressed to find almost anything these days that was not at least partially inspired by something else. In my opinion, it is GW's interesting spins on previous concepts that makes their setting really click.

That’s interesting and I think a fair point.

What about necrons? Are they fairly original? The only thing I can think of is terminator

Yeah, pretty sure Necrons were originally conceptualized as "Terminators in Space", but have transitioned to becoming more of a "Tomb Kings in Space" instead.

mrFickle wrote:
That’s interesting and I think a fair point.

What about necrons? Are they fairly original? The only thing I can think of is terminator

Tomb Kings in Spaaaace (or maybe Tomb King are 'Crons not in space)

Lot of the GW lore very much can be seen paralleling sci-fi like Star Wars, Star Trek, and Doctor Who.

Necrons are like a combo of Cybermen and Borg.

As far as original ideas, difficult. Even the Adeptus Mechanicus have the Dune parallel. The God-Emperor exists in a lot of British sci-fi.

The Primarchs are pretty unique. Super Soldiers that are used as templates for more Super Soldiers.

The Inquisition are pretty unique imo. Humanity having strict regulation on Psykers, Religion, and Xenos makes 40k the most conservative space empire I’ve read/seen.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

The Inquisition are pretty unique imo. Humanity having strict regulation on Psykers, Religion, and Xenos makes 40k the most conservative space empire I’ve read/seen.

well apart from the actual inquisition, and Nemesis the Warlock, heck the whole IoM is mostly the medieval Catholic church to an extreme degree

 ikeulhu wrote:
Yeah, pretty sure Necrons were originally conceptualized as "Terminators in Space", but have transitioned to becoming more of a "Tomb Kings in Space" instead.

They were pretty clearly space ancient Egyptians from the very start (scarabs, ankhs, pyramids on desert planets, decorative collars, archaeologists digging up sarcophagi...) and were descibed as a counterpart to Fantasy's undead by the designers.

Of course visually they're very clearly terminators (and literally had a rule called 'I'll be Back').

Phase out might be a relatively original concept.

Space marines were pretty original themselves. Not aware of any other genetically modified transhuman super soldiers in previous fiction unless you want to count something like Captain America. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

The Inquisition are pretty unique imo. Humanity having strict regulation on Psykers, Religion, and Xenos makes 40k the most conservative space empire I’ve read/seen.

well apart from the actual inquisition, and Nemesis the Warlock, heck the whole IoM is mostly the medieval Catholic church to an extreme degree

I agree I think GW has borrowed quite heavily from both facts and the dramatic portrayal of the Catholic Church

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Space marines were pretty original themselves. Not aware of any other genetically modified transhuman super soldiers in previous fiction unless you want to count something like Captain America. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I thought they were based on the Sardaukar from Dune (but I can't remember if they were enhanced/modified).

I think modern SM are very different from their origins aren’t they? So maybe what they are now is quite original although there are lots of example of genetically engineered super soldiers. But god knows who did that first.

I suppose the look of SM is original, I can’t find an example in my fading memory

mrFickle wrote:
I think modern SM are very different from their origins aren’t they?

Yes, and no. The implantation process has not changed much, but the origin of aspirants has changed, since in the early days they all were pretty much recruited from prison convicts IIRC.

Power armour and drop pods were most originally (as far as I'm aware) from henlein's Starship Troopers.

Sarduakar weren't modified, but they were recruited criminals. The phrase 'lasgun' is originally from dune, and much of the original inspiration for the Emperor can be said to be paul and leto atreides

Niven/pournelle, CoDominium/mote in god's eye had genetic supersoldiers (The sauron supermen), and 'the Imperial Marines, and tech which sounds a lot like early descriptions of void shields.

All of those predate 40k.

Original necrons were basically terminator + cthulu.

Arbites - and hive worlds - are Judge Dread.

As noted, chaos is basically Moorcockian

mrFickle wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

The Inquisition are pretty unique imo. Humanity having strict regulation on Psykers, Religion, and Xenos makes 40k the most conservative space empire I’ve read/seen.

well apart from the actual inquisition, and Nemesis the Warlock, heck the whole IoM is mostly the medieval Catholic church to an extreme degree

I agree I think GW has borrowed quite heavily from both facts and the dramatic portrayal of the Catholic Church

and yet they still don't have either a comfy chair or soft cushion relic, or maybe its only deployed if one of the cross beams has gone out askew on the treadle

Isn't the way 40k ships travel through a hell dimension to go FTL original? So original that Event Horizon is basically based off it.

That's gotta be the best thing, surely? For me it's 40k in a nutshell.

Orks are pretty original, they're quite different to just 'Orcs in space' and I don't think there's anything like them in other media. A weird fusion of football hooligans, mushrooms, the hulk and some really dark humour.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Isn't the way 40k ships travel through a hell dimension to go FTL original? So original that Event Horizon is basically based off it.

That's gotta be the best thing, surely? For me it's 40k in a nutshell.

Orks are pretty original, they're quite different to just 'Orcs in space' and I don't think there's anything like them in other media. A weird fusion of football hooligans, mushrooms, the hulk and some really dark humour.

Warp travel was inspired by Dune's travel through "folded space," but again that and Orks shows my point about how it is the interesting twists on old ideas that makes the 40k setting as appealing as it is.

 ikeulhu wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Isn't the way 40k ships travel through a hell dimension to go FTL original? So original that Event Horizon is basically based off it.

That's gotta be the best thing, surely? For me it's 40k in a nutshell.

Orks are pretty original, they're quite different to just 'Orcs in space' and I don't think there's anything like them in other media. A weird fusion of football hooligans, mushrooms, the hulk and some really dark humour.

Warp travel was inspired by Dune's travel through "folded space," but again that and Orks shows my point about how it is the interesting twists on old ideas that makes the 40k setting as appealing as it is.

But Dune's folded space isn't actually hell is it? That's a huge divergence for me.

That divergence is the twist that makes it something more than the original inspiration, just like Orks being fungal football hooligans was a neat twist on Tolkienesqe orcs.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 ikeulhu wrote:
Yeah, pretty sure Necrons were originally conceptualized as "Terminators in Space", but have transitioned to becoming more of a "Tomb Kings in Space" instead.

They were pretty clearly space ancient Egyptians from the very start (scarabs, ankhs, pyramids on desert planets, decorative collars, archaeologists digging up sarcophagi...) and were descibed as a counterpart to Fantasy's undead by the designers.

Of course visually they're very clearly terminators (and literally had a rule called 'I'll be Back').

Phase out might be a relatively original concept.

The Borg often "phased out" when killed, iirc.

 ikeulhu wrote:
That divergence is the twist that makes it something more than the original inspiration, just like Orks being fungal football hooligans was a neat twist on Tolkienesqe orcs.

I'll always thought mushroom Orks had a smidge of the thread from the Dragonrider books, they sort of drift about and cause havoc on whatever unlucky planet they happen too

That Hyperspace is the home of Daemons was already a thing in the 17th century

And I think there is a book from the 50ies were Hyperspace is place were humans go after death

Genetic modified Super Humans was a thing in the 60/70ies in Pulp and also in Star Trek


The unique thing is the combination of so many different elements, but 40k also lost a lot by taking things more serious and try to establish its own lore

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Isn't the way 40k ships travel through a hell dimension to go FTL original? So original that Event Horizon is basically based off it.

That's gotta be the best thing, surely? For me it's 40k in a nutshell.

Orks are pretty original, they're quite different to just 'Orcs in space' and I don't think there's anything like them in other media. A weird fusion of football hooligans, mushrooms, the hulk and some really dark humour.

Event Horizon is basically Doom in space. Doom is centered on the idea that dimensional teleportation became a thing, but it opened a portal to hell. Half-Life is the same thing, except instead of "hell" it's just an alternate alien dimension.

Then again, Doom and Event Horizon are still after GWs Warp Travel. One wonders if there is some previous version. I'm thinking Dimension X from TMNT. . . maaaaaybe? I recall some sci fi stories from prior to that offering up the idea of portals to other dimensions being exceedingly dangerous. I can't recall specifics, unfortunately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kodos wrote:
That Hyperspace is the home of Daemons was already a thing in the 17th century

Whoah, source? That'd be interesting.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ikeulhu wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Isn't the way 40k ships travel through a hell dimension to go FTL original? So original that Event Horizon is basically based off it.

That's gotta be the best thing, surely? For me it's 40k in a nutshell.

Orks are pretty original, they're quite different to just 'Orcs in space' and I don't think there's anything like them in other media. A weird fusion of football hooligans, mushrooms, the hulk and some really dark humour.

Warp travel was inspired by Dune's travel through "folded space," but again that and Orks shows my point about how it is the interesting twists on old ideas that makes the 40k setting as appealing as it is.

But Dune's folded space isn't actually hell is it? That's a huge divergence for me.

I would say that "folded space " and a fething "hell dimension" are pretty different concepts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Isn't the way 40k ships travel through a hell dimension to go FTL original? So original that Event Horizon is basically based off it.

That's gotta be the best thing, surely? For me it's 40k in a nutshell.

Orks are pretty original, they're quite different to just 'Orcs in space' and I don't think there's anything like them in other media. A weird fusion of football hooligans, mushrooms, the hulk and some really dark humour.

Event Horizon is basically Doom in space. Doom is centered on the idea that dimensional teleportation became a thing, but it opened a portal to hell. Half-Life is the same thing, except instead of "hell" it's just an alternate alien dimension.

Then again, Doom and Event Horizon are still after GWs Warp Travel. One wonders if there is some previous version. I'm thinking Dimension X from TMNT. . . maaaaaybe? I recall some sci fi stories from prior to that offering up the idea of portals to other dimensions being exceedingly dangerous. I can't recall specifics, unfortunately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kodos wrote:
That Hyperspace is the home of Daemons was already a thing in the 17th century

Whoah, source? That'd be interesting.

Last I checked Doom was already in space and 40k predates Doom. Would also like to see the source for Kodos' post. Sounds interesting.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 ikeulhu wrote:
Yeah, pretty sure Necrons were originally conceptualized as "Terminators in Space", but have transitioned to becoming more of a "Tomb Kings in Space" instead.

They were pretty clearly space ancient Egyptians from the very start (scarabs, ankhs, pyramids on desert planets, decorative collars, archaeologists digging up sarcophagi...) and were descibed as a counterpart to Fantasy's undead by the designers.

Of course visually they're very clearly terminators (and literally had a rule called 'I'll be Back').

Phase out might be a relatively original concept.

The Borg often "phased out" when killed, iirc.

I always thought of it as a sci-fi spin on the concept of a raiding force removing their dead to prevent the enemy from identifying/analyzing them or knowing how many they'd killed, but I'm struggling to find a search term that'd let me find any examples.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ikeulhu wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Isn't the way 40k ships travel through a hell dimension to go FTL original? So original that Event Horizon is basically based off it.

That's gotta be the best thing, surely? For me it's 40k in a nutshell.

Orks are pretty original, they're quite different to just 'Orcs in space' and I don't think there's anything like them in other media. A weird fusion of football hooligans, mushrooms, the hulk and some really dark humour.

Warp travel was inspired by Dune's travel through "folded space," but again that and Orks shows my point about how it is the interesting twists on old ideas that makes the 40k setting as appealing as it is.

But Dune's folded space isn't actually hell is it? That's a huge divergence for me.

No but you need a navigator that off their face to travel safely through both


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kodos wrote:


Genetic modified Super Humans was a thing in the 60/70ies in Pulp and also in Star Trek

Oh dude! Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarn!

And if we go back to rogue trader or before we’re SM basically humans in power armour, maybe boosted. But not full blown Astartes that we know these days.

I’m sure I remember a photo in rogue trader depicted some SM sitting around in a bar. I’ll see if I can find it

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ikeulhu wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Isn't the way 40k ships travel through a hell dimension to go FTL original? So original that Event Horizon is basically based off it.

That's gotta be the best thing, surely? For me it's 40k in a nutshell.

Orks are pretty original, they're quite different to just 'Orcs in space' and I don't think there's anything like them in other media. A weird fusion of football hooligans, mushrooms, the hulk and some really dark humour.

Warp travel was inspired by Dune's travel through "folded space," but again that and Orks shows my point about how it is the interesting twists on old ideas that makes the 40k setting as appealing as it is.

But Dune's folded space isn't actually hell is it? That's a huge divergence for me.

I would say that "folded space " and a fething "hell dimension" are pretty different concepts.

Lol, right?

I mean there's a twist and then there's completely different. I think this leans more towards completely different.