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Hopefully simple question regarding those blasted Drones and how they interact with Spore Mines.

Can a Tau player put wounds on Drones via Saviour Protocols as a result of being hit by a Spore Mine launched from a Spore Mine Launcher or Spore Node? What about Spore Mines that happen to be nearby and detonate at the end of the Charge phase?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hopefully simple question regarding those blasted Drones and how they interact with Spore Mines.

Can a Tau player put wounds on Drones via Saviour Protocols as a result of being hit by a Spore Mine launched from a Spore Mine Launcher or Spore Node? What about Spore Mines that happen to be nearby and detonate at the end of the Charge phase?

Spore Node and Spore Mine Launcher are guns for all intents and purposes until they miss.

So there are no spore mines involved when they hit. They deal a number of mortal wounds. Can drones intercept mortal wounds? If yes. then they do. If no, then they don't..

Arguably the spore mines during the charge phase should work the same. They don't shoot or attack, but they are mortal wounds that get allocated. So however drones interact with that.

So then, no, they wouldn't. They don't make a wound roll, and Saviour Protocols is about allocating wounds, therefore the attack sequence just goes "Roll to hit, now see how many MWs are applied."

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So then, no, they wouldn't. They don't make a wound roll, and Saviour Protocols is about allocating wounds, therefore the attack sequence just goes "Roll to hit, now see how many MWs are applied."

MWs are still allocated. They just automatically succeed the wound roll and cannot be saved.

A normal shot is roll to hit> roll to wound> Allocate to model> Roll save> Deal damage.
A MW is roll to hit> Automatically wound> Allocate to model> Deal damage

Unless there is some weird FAQ exception to that (and there very easily could be) as long as drones intercept at the allocate step then they can intercept MWs.

SP doesnt discern during which phase the wound is dealt - it's a blanket "when battlesuit within 3" is wounded by an enemy attack".

This means self-dealt damage (i.e. nova charge MW) doesnt proc SP, but any form of wound caused by enemy attacks do. Unless you don't count MW caused by enemy spore mine as 'wound caused by enemy attack', then SP can be taken. If you don't, then the interpretation is yours/your group's.

 skchsan wrote:
This means self-dealt damage (i.e. nova charge MW) doesnt proc SP, but any form of wound caused by enemy attacks do.

FAQ contradicts that though:

Q: If an attack inflicts mortal wounds on a unit as a result of a hit roll, and the attack sequence ends before it successfully wounds the target (e.g. the Hellfire Shells Stratagem or an attack made with a shokk attack gun with a Strength characteristic of 11+ that fails to wound the target), can I allocate the mortal wounds to a Drones unit with the Saviour Protocols ability?

A: No. As the attack sequence has ended before the target has been wounded, there is no wound to allocate to the Drones unit. Therefore the target suffers the mortal
wounds as normal.

How would a Spore Mine be any different here? There's no roll to "successfully wound the target" with a Spore Mine. You just roll for how many MW it causes. Would the above not apply?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
This means self-dealt damage (i.e. nova charge MW) doesnt proc SP, but any form of wound caused by enemy attacks do.

FAQ contradicts that though:

Q: If an attack inflicts mortal wounds on a unit as a result of a hit roll, and the attack sequence ends before it successfully wounds the target (e.g. the Hellfire Shells Stratagem or an attack made with a shokk attack gun with a Strength characteristic of 11+ that fails to wound the target), can I allocate the mortal wounds to a Drones unit with the Saviour Protocols ability?

A: No. As the attack sequence has ended before the target has been wounded, there is no wound to allocate to the Drones unit. Therefore the target suffers the mortal
wounds as normal.

How would a Spore Mine be any different here? There's no roll to "successfully wound the target" with a Spore Mine. You just roll for how many MW it causes. Would the above not apply?

That FAQ is what BCB refers to as a "Special Snowflake" in that it breaks the normal sequencing of the game.

Rolling to wound is not the same as allocating the wound. It's true that MWs don't roll to wound (because they automatically succeed, in the same way that a flamer automatically hits) but they still need to be allocated to a model 1 by 1 and then deal their damage.

So, a drone SHOULD be able to intercept the wound when it is being allocated to the model. But maybe not? Because WTF is that FAQ even saying? You don't allocate MWs to a unit. You allocate them to models.

Do spore mines inflict mortal wounds on a unit as a result of a hit roll?

If not then the FAQ does not apply.

But you don't apply wounds to units. Wounds determine how many saving throws are taken, and then you apply damage.

Mortal wounds specifically do not roll to wound (Rulebook, page 181), so if there's no wound roll, there's no wound to allocate to a drone prior to saving throws being made (keeping in mind that a failed drone allocation results in you moving to the saving through part of the shooting rules, something MWs expressly skip).

 DeathReaper wrote:
Do spore mines inflict mortal wounds on a unit as a result of a hit roll?

If not then the FAQ does not apply.

Spore mine launchers and spore nodes roll to hit. Spore mines themselves don't.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Do spore mines inflict mortal wounds on a unit as a result of a hit roll?

Yes. The roll after the To Hit roll is used to determine how many MWs are caused (0, 1 or D3).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But you don't apply wounds to units. Wounds determine how many saving throws are taken, and then you apply damage.

Mortal wounds specifically do not roll to wound (Rulebook, page 181), so if there's no wound roll, there's no wound to allocate to a drone prior to saving throws being made (keeping in mind that a failed drone allocation results in you moving to the saving through part of the shooting rules, something MWs expressly skip).

You hit, you wound, and then the controlling player allocates the wound to the model. The models save is what determines the save roll. And then damage is dealt to the model. Units don't have characteristics to roll a save with. Only models do.

The MW still has to be allocated to a model in order for it's damage to go to a model and not a unit (which has no characteristics).

Think of a unit of SM some of which have storm shields and some of which don't. You can't roll the Storm shield save if the wound hasn't been allocated to the Stom shield model yet, right? So the mortal wound doesn't roll to wound, and the model doesn't get a save, but the controlling player STILL has to allocate it to a model.

 Lance845 wrote:
You hit, you wound...

*record scratch*

Except you don't with Mortal Wounds.

"Each Mortal Wound inflicts 1 point of damage on the target. Do not make a wound roll or saving throw..."

 Lance845 wrote:
Think of a unit of SM some of which have storm shields and some of which don't. You can't roll the Storm shield save if the wound hasn't been allocated to the Stom shield model yet, right? So the mortal wound doesn't roll to wound, and the model doesn't get a save, but the controlling player STILL has to allocate it to a model.

All the controlling player allocates is the damage that the Mortal Wound inflicts.

The sequence would be:

Hit
Apply 1 Damage per MW.
Take FNP saves (where applicable)

The "wound roll" and "armour save" parts are skipped. There's no wounding hit to apply. You go straight to applying damage.

Mortal Wounds

Some attacks inflict mortal wounds – these are so powerful that no armour or force field can withstand their fury. Each mortal wound inflicts one point of damage on the target unit. Do not make a wound roll or saving throw (including invulnerable saves) against a mortal wound – just allocate it as you would any other wound and inflict damage to a model in the target unit as described above. Unlike normal attacks, excess damage from attacks that inflict mortal wounds is not lost. Instead keep allocating damage to another model in the target unit until either all the damage has been allocated or the target unit is destroyed.

No. You allocate the wound to the model and then deal the damage. You SKIP the roll to wound and roll to save steps but you STILL allocate the wound.

That is a quote from the mortal wound side bar in the battle primer. The "as above" reference is to the normal allocating wounds/damage steps on the same page.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Do spore mines inflict mortal wounds on a unit as a result of a hit roll?

Yes. The roll after the To Hit roll is used to determine how many MWs are caused (0, 1 or D3).

Codex Tyranids Page 99 wrote:Floating Death: A Spore Mine explodes if it is within 3" of any enemy units at the end of any Charge phase. Each time a Spore Mine explodes, roll a D6; on a 1 it fails to inflict any harm, on a 2-5 it inflicts1 mortal wound on the nearest enemy unit, and on a 6 it inflicts D3 mortal wounds on that unit. TheSpore Mine is then destroyed.

I do not see anything about a To Hit roll in the Spore Mine rules.

Can you elaborate where the To Hit roll is in those rules?

P.S. the roll to determine how many MWs are caused (0, 1 or D3) is not a To Hit roll. To Hit rolls require you to reference the Ballistic Skill characteristic, which is not what is happening here.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Do spore mines inflict mortal wounds on a unit as a result of a hit roll?

Yes. The roll after the To Hit roll is used to determine how many MWs are caused (0, 1 or D3).

Codex Tyranids Page 99 wrote:Floating Death: A Spore Mine explodes if it is within 3" of any enemy units at the end of any Charge phase. Each time a Spore Mine explodes, roll a D6; on a 1 it fails to inflict any harm, on a 2-5 it inflicts1 mortal wound on the nearest enemy unit, and on a 6 it inflicts D3 mortal wounds on that unit. TheSpore Mine is then destroyed.

I do not see anything about a To Hit roll in the Spore Mine rules.

Can you elaborate where the To Hit roll is in those rules?

P.S. the roll to determine how many MWs are caused (0, 1 or D3) is not a To Hit roll. To Hit rolls require you to reference the Ballistic Skill characteristic, which is not what is happening here.

The to hit roll is on the Spore Mine Launcher (biovore weapon) and Spore Node (sporocyst weapon).

There is no wound roll, therefore via FAQ.... SPs can't save mortal wounds UNLESS its saved as a result of a mortal wound caused by a wound roll. Something like a sniper wound roll of 6, or an electropriest wound roll of 6 would reduce all damage including the mortal wounds to 1 mortal wound. So no wound roll, means no savior protocols can be used. No clue where people are pulling that there is an inherent hit and wound roll with mortal wounds... there isn't.

In this specific case, spore mines (including direct hits) is a a damage roll if anything as you are figuring out how much damage, not rolling to wound. Its analagous to hellfire shells, which it calls out specifically as savior protocols not working against, because there is a hit roll, and the sequence then goes to damage, D3 for tempest 0,1, or d3 for spore mines.

SP cannot intercept MW from a biovore, or from a spore mine. There is no wound roll, which is a requirement for SP. And there is no automatic wound from a MW (anyone saying so, citation please). MW arent wounds. They are allocated like a wound, but they arent wounds.

 p5freak wrote:
SP cannot intercept MW from a biovore, or from a spore mine. There is no wound roll, which is a requirement for SP. And there is no automatic wound from a MW (anyone saying so, citation please). MW arent wounds. They are allocated like a wound, but they arent wounds.

There does not need to be a wound roll as MW's wound automatically. MW;s are definitely wounds as per the Battle Primer Page 7 " Do not make a wound roll or saving throw (including invulnerable saves) against a mortal wound – just allocate it as you would any other wound..."

It has to be a wound, sine they say "any other wound"


Therefore MW's are demonstrably wounds.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
SP cannot intercept MW from a biovore, or from a spore mine. There is no wound roll, which is a requirement for SP. And there is no automatic wound from a MW (anyone saying so, citation please). MW arent wounds. They are allocated like a wound, but they arent wounds.

There does not need to be a wound roll as MW's wound automatically. MW;s are definitely wounds as per the Battle Primer Page 7 " Do not make a wound roll or saving throw (including invulnerable saves) against a mortal wound – just allocate it as you would any other wound..."

It has to be a wound, sine they say "any other wound"


Therefore MW's are demonstrably wounds.

You havent provided a citation that MW are automatic wounds. A wound roll is required in order to successfully wound the target, see citation below. There is no wound roll for MW.

2. Wound Roll: If an attack scores
a hit, you will then need to roll
another dice to see if the attack
successfully wounds the target.

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
SP cannot intercept MW from a biovore, or from a spore mine. There is no wound roll, which is a requirement for SP. And there is no automatic wound from a MW (anyone saying so, citation please). MW arent wounds. They are allocated like a wound, but they arent wounds.

There does not need to be a wound roll as MW's wound automatically. MW;s are definitely wounds as per the Battle Primer Page 7 " Do not make a wound roll or saving throw (including invulnerable saves) against a mortal wound – just allocate it as you would any other wound..."

It has to be a wound, sine they say "any other wound"


Therefore MW's are demonstrably wounds.

You havent provided a citation that MW are automatic wounds. A wound roll is required in order to successfully wound the target, see citation below. There is no wound roll for MW.

2. Wound Roll: If an attack scores
a hit, you will then need to roll
another dice to see if the attack
successfully wounds the target.

I have provided a citation that MW are automatic wounds, as they are allocated like any other wound, that makes them a wound.

The FAQ answers this, I do not know why people are arguing otherwise.

Q: If an attack inflicts mortal wounds on a unit as a result of a hit roll, and the attack sequence ends before it successfully wounds the target (e.g. the Hellfire Shells Stratagem or an attack made with a shokk attack gun with a Strength characteristic of 11+ that fails to wound the target), can I allocate the mortal wounds to a Drones unit with the Saviour Protocols ability?

A: No. As the attack sequence has ended before the target has been wounded, there is no wound to allocate to the Drones unit. Therefore the target suffers the mortal
wounds as normal.

Biovore's cause a MW on hit therefore there can be no SP roll.

Spore mines are slightly different but do not require a wound roll so do not activate SP either.

Now if you are in the camp that a MW is still a wound so should activate it, it still will not as it is not an Attack. SP activates on the loss of a wound caused by an attack, SM do not attack the unit.

 DeathReaper wrote:

I have provided a citation that MW are automatic wounds, as they are allocated like any other wound, that makes them a wound.

No, you havent provided a citation saying MW are automatic wounds, and you cant, because there isnt any. MW = automatic wounds is your interpretation, and its false.

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

I have provided a citation that MW are automatic wounds, as they are allocated like any other wound, that makes them a wound.

No, you havent provided a citation saying MW are automatic wounds, and you cant, because there isnt any. MW = automatic wounds is your interpretation, and its false.

You two know it is irrelevant in this case per the sited FAQ?

Question answered, we're done here.