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2020/03/13 22:24:19
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Fictional wrote: Of course, you could always shoot first before they have time to manifest something.
A very sensible and effective approach. It's difficult to use the powers of your mind while you're dodging bullets - and impossible if a bolt shell blows your head off.
2020/03/14 11:06:44
Subject: Re:How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Its amazing how helpful a closed mind seems to be in the 41st Millenium. Mental conditioning, racial defenses or awareness, faith in the Big E, martial discipline as well as good old hatred for mind witches might go a long way towards protecting a 40k combatant. Not everything would be as easily swayed as Imperial Stormtroopers.
A ton of armies and a terrain habit...
2020/03/14 11:33:44
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
1) Weight of shots - whilst many show the ability to throw up a forcefield; it has limited power and duration. Concentrated ranged fire will often blast through. Of course against very powerful individuals you might need a lot of power. Plus this assumes that they remain in one place and don't use deception to escape.
2) Weight of numbers - like shots only with bodies. Again you're basically looking to run them out of power. You take a lot of casualties, but in the end dominate through weight of numbers. Of course some armies will use this tactic more than others.
3) Ancient armours/seals/sigiles/technology. As the video above shows, some armour is going to naturally resist/deflect or otherwise provide sufficient protection. Of course your regular gaunt or guardsman is not likely going to have access to these resources; so they will fall unless they can somehow sneak their way closer to deliver a surgical killing blow.
4) Depending on the nature of the power you might get close enough. Some psykers are shown to more affect the mind than physical or elemental energies around them. If their power attacks the mind then a "blank" or otherwise someone iwth a strong natural resistance might well survive the encounter. That would be the most likely case of a one-on-one where a regular person might survive without specialist equipment. However you're looking at very rare individuals.
1) Weight of shots - whilst many show the ability to throw up a forcefield; it has limited power and duration. Concentrated ranged fire will often blast through. Of course against very powerful individuals you might need a lot of power. Plus this assumes that they remain in one place and don't use deception to escape.
2) Weight of numbers - like shots only with bodies. Again you're basically looking to run them out of power. You take a lot of casualties, but in the end dominate through weight of numbers. Of course some armies will use this tactic more than others.
3) Ancient armours/seals/sigiles/technology. As the video above shows, some armour is going to naturally resist/deflect or otherwise provide sufficient protection. Of course your regular gaunt or guardsman is not likely going to have access to these resources; so they will fall unless they can somehow sneak their way closer to deliver a surgical killing blow.
4) Depending on the nature of the power you might get close enough. Some psykers are shown to more affect the mind than physical or elemental energies around them. If their power attacks the mind then a "blank" or otherwise someone iwth a strong natural resistance might well survive the encounter. That would be the most likely case of a one-on-one where a regular person might survive without specialist equipment. However you're looking at very rare individuals.
You are not taking down the likes of Tigurius or Mephiston in a 1v1 without plotarmor forged by the emperor himself.
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2020/03/20 22:37:11
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
In most cases, it is better to roll up into the corner and cry to the Emperor that he might bless a psyker with snake eyes or two sixes on his psychic power test and just go nuclear on its own. Hopefully without annoying after party hangover of tearing a literal hole into reality which would allow thousands of demons to come into your room and murder everyone.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/20 23:03:50
"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."
Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points.
2020/03/20 23:01:02
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Outside of memes, you can't fight a powerful psyker. In lore even Catachan devil sergeant is just like a toy to break for a child psyker if he is powerful enough to wield his powers properly. There is a great story about Catachan devils who went into a jungle and found entire town hidden by a psyker who mind fethed entire squad into believing that they are friends and tricked them into fighting their own men. Then at the end when final payback time was up, psyker leader just dealt with rambo like he would be one of his toys to break. Only plot armor had saved him.
Now lets say you are slightly less fethed and you are something. Some Inquisitor or Adeptus Astartes. It is still a really a battle against all odds even if you are a squad of space marines. You have to distract them and go for the kill. Psyker's main weapon is its mind. It can manipulate reality to its whim. Yet, their bodies are as fragile or even more fragile than your average human's. What you have to do is to outsmart them and land a single blow which they did not anticipated. Here I attach an excellent example of how non-psykers fight psykers. But by the love of God, don't let them to look at you angrily or you might just cease to exist. Power armor or not.
Psykers might appear as ridiculously OP and they are. Yet, at the same time you have to remember that most psykers are very low grade. Their psychic powers manifests in small things like being unusually lucky in gambling, or being very tough bastard to kill, or have tendency to attract bad or good things to yourself, etc. Something which nobody would even see as psychic activity and it is a such low grade powers that even demons would barely see them as different. Any psyker who is more powerful is either mad, unable to control its power or something in between these two. The stable psyker who could be used for a good of an Imperium in constructive and truly beneficial fashion is extremely rare. It is about 1 such psyker per star system. There are plenty of lower grade psykers like sanctioned psykers, astropaths, navigators, etc. Yet they are very weak psykers who always are bordering at the brink of madness and are in need of being put down because they can't reliably control their power is they bite more than they hoped for.
In new lore, ever loving Chaos Gods had bestowed yet another immense gift upon their favorite children, humanity. Ever heard of psychic awakening? It is great gift from Tzeentch who had slowly and lovingly nurtured mankind. Humanity is slowly awakening. We are ascending and becoming a psychic race. Our unending faith and devotion is being rewarded!
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2020/03/20 23:37:24
"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."
Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points.
2020/03/21 00:16:04
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
A regular human is utterly powerless against a psyker of even low ability, let alone a great psyker. Astartes have a good shot at defeating them, depending on the situation, but literally no warrior has any shot at beating someone like Mephiston or Magnus.
The real problem with psykers is that they're a danger to themselves and everybody else even if they have good intentions, because literally every psyker is a potential demon portal.
That, and it's quite easy to simply...well, go completely flying rodent gak insane unless psychic ability is properly developed. Astropaths are often just used as kind of..what--signal rely chains, or food for the golden throne. They are basically just vessels for communication over long distances. They are basically just telephones. And they behave kind of like light bulbs, with warp energy running through them like electricity. It's often the case that when chaos forces come around them, their noses start to bleed or if said chaos forces are particularly bad ass they go beserk before their brains liquefy.
Long and short of it is, although being a psyker has its perks, the average citizen of the Imperium is certainly going to be worse off, or meet a fate worse than death, by being 'blessed' with that ability. Very very few psykers actually go on to do noble things.
2020/03/21 01:31:22
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Roberts84 wrote: Astropaths are often just used as kind of..what--signal rely chains, or food for the golden throne
That one is new to me. Where is it stated?
Quite a few places. That's the general conveyor belt of psyker harvesting int he imperium. The Black Ships show up to round up all the psykers they can find on a bunch of planets and then haul them off to Terra. On Terra (or at least, in the Sol system), you're either deemed stable/powerful/useful enough to become some form of sanctioned psyker (most commonly an astropath), or else you get fed to the golden throne.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
2020/03/21 02:19:13
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Yeah, the weak or "unsuitable" psykers get fed to the throne. But he was saying "where does it say Astropaths (the guys who passed their training and are currently guiding ships through the warp) are being fed to the throne?"
2020/03/21 02:21:56
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Tyzarion_Kronius wrote: Considering the vast powers psykers have, how can a non-psyker have a chance in fighting a psyker?
For instance how well Russ did against Magnus in HH, or how chapters with librarians don't just roll over chapters lacking librarians.
How do non-psykers stand a chance against psykers?
Kind of depends on the psyker. There are novels where unaugmented humans can shrug off mental attacks through sheer willpower (not stopping the power from happening, but snapping out of it before it gets them to die or go catatonic). If the psyker's only trick is throwing fireballs, then he's roughly as dangerous as a guy with a bunch of heavy artillery, albeit very misfire-prone artillery. You can just take cover/dodge/shoot him before he wipes your squad. Ditto most forms of energy/matter manipulators.
Psykers are...
* Prone to accidentally killing themselves, especially if they're having to call upon a lot of power all at once.
* Much less numerous than the humans that want to murder them.
* Not generally very good at using their powers. A guy who just throws fire is a lot less scary than a Thousand Sons sorcerer throwing fireballs while also making forcefields.
Psykers that are exceptions to one or more of those above points are harder to deal with and probably a problem for someone in power armor to deal with. You can kind of think of psykers as like... X-Men style superhumans. Most of them will die if you shoot enough bullets at them, but a single one has a good chance of doing a lot of damage before he drops.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
2020/03/21 02:26:34
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Roberts84 wrote: Astropaths are often just used as kind of..what--signal rely chains, or food for the golden throne
That one is new to me. Where is it stated?
Quite a few places. That's the general conveyor belt of psyker harvesting int he imperium. The Black Ships show up to round up all the psykers they can find on a bunch of planets and then haul them off to Terra. On Terra (or at least, in the Sol system), you're either deemed stable/powerful/useful enough to become some form of sanctioned psyker (most commonly an astropath), or else you get fed to the golden throne.
Yes, but the black ships do not pick up trained astropaths..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/21 02:27:29
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2020/03/21 02:30:47
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Roberts84 wrote: Astropaths are often just used as kind of..what--signal rely chains, or food for the golden throne
That one is new to me. Where is it stated?
Quite a few places. That's the general conveyor belt of psyker harvesting int he imperium. The Black Ships show up to round up all the psykers they can find on a bunch of planets and then haul them off to Terra. On Terra (or at least, in the Sol system), you're either deemed stable/powerful/useful enough to become some form of sanctioned psyker (most commonly an astropath), or else you get fed to the golden throne.
Yes, but the black ships do not pick up trained astropaths..
Right. They pick up non-astropaths who go to psyker Hogwarts, and one of the houses you can be sorted into is, "astropath," and another is, "food for the shiny chair." If you're deemed a good candidate for astropath-hood, you undergo a ritual that blinds you (often literally burning your eyes out of their sockets) that supposedly binds you to the light of the emperor.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
2020/03/21 02:33:11
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Roberts84 wrote: Astropaths are often just used as kind of..what--signal rely chains, or food for the golden throne
That one is new to me. Where is it stated?
Quite a few places. That's the general conveyor belt of psyker harvesting int he imperium. The Black Ships show up to round up all the psykers they can find on a bunch of planets and then haul them off to Terra. On Terra (or at least, in the Sol system), you're either deemed stable/powerful/useful enough to become some form of sanctioned psyker (most commonly an astropath), or else you get fed to the golden throne.
Yes, but the black ships do not pick up trained astropaths..
Right. They pick up non-astropaths who go to psyker Hogwarts, and one of the houses you can be sorted into is, "astropath," and another is, "food for the shiny chair." If you're deemed a good candidate for astropath-hood, you undergo a ritual that blinds you (often literally burning your eyes out of their sockets) that supposedly binds you to the light of the emperor.
I know. Thats not what I am asking.
Lets try again: Where is stated that trained astropaths are being fed to the golden throne (as claimed by Roberts84)?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/03/21 02:52:16
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2020/03/21 03:31:44
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Roberts84 wrote: Astropaths are often just used as kind of..what--signal rely chains, or food for the golden throne
That one is new to me. Where is it stated?
Quite a few places. That's the general conveyor belt of psyker harvesting int he imperium. The Black Ships show up to round up all the psykers they can find on a bunch of planets and then haul them off to Terra. On Terra (or at least, in the Sol system), you're either deemed stable/powerful/useful enough to become some form of sanctioned psyker (most commonly an astropath), or else you get fed to the golden throne.
Yes, but the black ships do not pick up trained astropaths..
Right. They pick up non-astropaths who go to psyker Hogwarts, and one of the houses you can be sorted into is, "astropath," and another is, "food for the shiny chair." If you're deemed a good candidate for astropath-hood, you undergo a ritual that blinds you (often literally burning your eyes out of their sockets) that supposedly binds you to the light of the emperor.
I know. Thats not what I am asking.
Lets try again: Where is stated that trained astropaths are being fed to the golden throne (as claimed by Roberts84)?
Fear to Tread, PG 136.
2020/03/21 03:48:20
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Roberts84 wrote: Astropaths are often just used as kind of..what--signal rely chains, or food for the golden throne
That one is new to me. Where is it stated?
Quite a few places. That's the general conveyor belt of psyker harvesting int he imperium. The Black Ships show up to round up all the psykers they can find on a bunch of planets and then haul them off to Terra. On Terra (or at least, in the Sol system), you're either deemed stable/powerful/useful enough to become some form of sanctioned psyker (most commonly an astropath), or else you get fed to the golden throne.
Yes, but the black ships do not pick up trained astropaths..
Right. They pick up non-astropaths who go to psyker Hogwarts, and one of the houses you can be sorted into is, "astropath," and another is, "food for the shiny chair." If you're deemed a good candidate for astropath-hood, you undergo a ritual that blinds you (often literally burning your eyes out of their sockets) that supposedly binds you to the light of the emperor.
I know. Thats not what I am asking.
Lets try again: Where is stated that trained astropaths are being fed to the golden throne (as claimed by Roberts84)?
Fear to Tread, PG 136.
I've had a look in the epub version, and I dont see it. Mabye the pages dont match up. Do you mind showing us?
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2020/03/21 04:02:14
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Roberts84 wrote: Astropaths are often just used as kind of..what--signal rely chains, or food for the golden throne
That one is new to me. Where is it stated?
Quite a few places. That's the general conveyor belt of psyker harvesting int he imperium. The Black Ships show up to round up all the psykers they can find on a bunch of planets and then haul them off to Terra. On Terra (or at least, in the Sol system), you're either deemed stable/powerful/useful enough to become some form of sanctioned psyker (most commonly an astropath), or else you get fed to the golden throne.
Yes, but the black ships do not pick up trained astropaths..
Right. They pick up non-astropaths who go to psyker Hogwarts, and one of the houses you can be sorted into is, "astropath," and another is, "food for the shiny chair." If you're deemed a good candidate for astropath-hood, you undergo a ritual that blinds you (often literally burning your eyes out of their sockets) that supposedly binds you to the light of the emperor.
I know. Thats not what I am asking.
Lets try again: Where is stated that trained astropaths are being fed to the golden throne (as claimed by Roberts84)?
That's because it isn't there. I just wanted to see if you were ridiculous enough to check.
2020/03/21 04:05:36
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Good for a laugh, though. I can't believe he actually took the bait. But then again, I'm not so emotionally invested in a sci-fi series as to care. Bewildering.
I'm about 75% certain I recall reading somewhere that defective Astropaths, or maybe no even defective, have been fed to the throne. Might have been an isolated incident. Maybe I'm just wrong and I'm thinking of a plain old psyker.
Regardless, who cares?
2020/03/21 04:56:37
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Good for a laugh, though. I can't believe he actually took the bait. But then again, I'm not so emotionally invested in a sci-fi series as to care. Bewildering.
I'm about 75% certain I recall reading somewhere that defective Astropaths, or maybe no even defective, have been fed to the throne. Might have been an isolated incident. Maybe I'm just wrong and I'm thinking of a plain old psyker.
Regardless, who cares?
Yes, it must be hilarious to lie to others. And certainly, no one on the fluff section of a 40k forum cares at all about the fluff of 40k. -_-
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2020/03/21 05:09:06
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
Good for a laugh, though. I can't believe he actually took the bait. But then again, I'm not so emotionally invested in a sci-fi series as to care. Bewildering.
I'm about 75% certain I recall reading somewhere that defective Astropaths, or maybe no even defective, have been fed to the throne. Might have been an isolated incident. Maybe I'm just wrong and I'm thinking of a plain old psyker.
Regardless, who cares?
Yes, it must be hilarious to lie to others. And certainly, no one on the fluff section of a 40k forum cares at all about the fluff of 40k. -_-
I don't think I would waste time with him tbh. He's disrespectful for no apparent reason besides trying to show off that he doesn't care (real edgy). More importantly, he's posting in 40k threads not in good faith for actual discussion, again hiding behind the veneer of "not caring" (in which case, why would one bother setting up an account and posting on a site largely about 40k?). I know he's butthurt over the mods not letting him do random posts in Off-Topic, so he's probably venting it here instead at this point.
2020/03/21 05:29:00
Subject: How do non-psykers stand against psykers?
4,000 
Word Bearers 1,500 
