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If a model in a unit that is holding a banner for example, like a daemonette or a character with a standard cannot fit under the second floor what happens? Do they not get to ever end their move under the terrain or do they get benefit of being on the first floor and hence cannot be seen as the bottom floor of ruins is sealed from LOS.

Thanks

Technically the rules say if a model can't be placed you can't just say it "counts as" being in a certain location. So in your example the model with the banner wouldn't be able to be placed on the ground floor.

However, the rules for terrain in general are a bit rubbish in 40k and this might be something that is covered in a tournament rules pack or that you might want to discuss with your opponent beforehand in a casual game.

ITC are house rules. We can't answer the question because it's up to the people who write the house rules to decide.

I think OP answered their own question. Does the model fit? If so it fits. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit, and doesn't benefit.

Slipspace wrote:
Technically the rules say if a model can't be placed you can't just say it "counts as" being in a certain location. So in your example the model with the banner wouldn't be able to be placed on the ground floor.

However, the rules for terrain in general are a bit rubbish in 40k and this might be something that is covered in a tournament rules pack or that you might want to discuss with your opponent beforehand in a casual game.

Except GW went with wobbly model syndrome that you would first literally need to be able to position the model there. If model doesn't stand there you can't say it is there.

GW rules...

What ever happened to common sense

Please cite the page of the rulebook that gives players permission to apply common sense

I know this situation is a bit silly but there are lots of things like that in the game. I think if the model can't phyically go there then it can't go there and you don't get the benefits.

 ValentineGames wrote:
What ever happened to common sense

Certain regulars here beat it up and left it to die in an alley.

 Stux wrote:

 ValentineGames wrote:
What ever happened to common sense

Certain regulars here beat it up and left it to die in alley.

That round here is definitely true haha.

 ValentineGames wrote:
What ever happened to common sense

The forums gave it up for Lent.

The reason I ask is because I was watching a battle report for an ITC Game where he said it was okay for his banner custode to be on the bottom floor even though he couldn't fit. I think they mean because infantry can go through walls of ruins they can be on the bottom of the ruin with their banner poking through the second floor because they can 'go through ruins.' I sussed the ITC rules and it wasn't there, so maybe he was referring to his own area's house ITC rules. What would be better would be if an official ITC tournament had some house rules recently that said something about, such as LVO. I'll try hunt them down. Cheers for the help guys!

Do the rules specify the orientation of the bases? If so which page is that on?

 Canadian 5th wrote:
Do the rules specify the orientation of the bases? If so which page is that on?

No. The rules also dont specify that a D6 has to have 1-6 on its sides. If you dont place your models with the base at the bottom, i will play with my dice which have 6s on all sides.

 p5freak wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:
Do the rules specify the orientation of the bases? If so which page is that on?

No. The rules also dont specify that a D6 has to have 1-6 on its sides. If you dont place your models with the base at the bottom, i will play with my dice which have 6s on all sides.

That would suck for morale checks...

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:
Do the rules specify the orientation of the bases? If so which page is that on?

No. The rules also dont specify that a D6 has to have 1-6 on its sides. If you dont place your models with the base at the bottom, i will play with my dice which have 6s on all sides.

That would suck for morale checks...

Not if your morale checks auto succeed.

 Bilge Rat wrote:
Please cite the page of the rulebook that gives players permission to apply common sense

I know this situation is a bit silly but there are lots of things like that in the game. I think if the model can't phyically go there then it can't go there and you don't get the benefits.

It is literally right there in the rule book.

The Most Important Rule
In a game as detailed and wide-ranging as Warhammer 40,000, there may be times when you are not sure exactly how to resolve a situation that has come up during play. When this happens, have a quick chat with your opponent and apply the solution that makes the most sense to both of you (or seems the most fun!). If no single solution presents itself, you and your opponent should roll off, and whoever rolls highest gets to choose what happens. Then you can get on with the fighting!

That is page 6 of the primer.

Ah, the old dice aren't defined as labelled 1 to 6 line.

Common sense is never a reasonable solution to a problem in this forum. Until arbitrarily everyone suddenly decides it is.

 Fifty wrote:

 Bilge Rat wrote:
Please cite the page of the rulebook that gives players permission to apply common sense

I know this situation is a bit silly but there are lots of things like that in the game. I think if the model can't phyically go there then it can't go there and you don't get the benefits.

It is literally right there in the rule book.

The Most Important Rule
In a game as detailed and wide-ranging as Warhammer 40,000, there may be times when you are not sure exactly how to resolve a situation that has come up during play. When this happens, have a quick chat with your opponent and apply the solution that makes the most sense to both of you (or seems the most fun!). If no single solution presents itself, you and your opponent should roll off, and whoever rolls highest gets to choose what happens. Then you can get on with the fighting!

That is page 6 of the primer.

This isn't carte blanche to ignore the rules, it lets you resolve a situation when the rules are unclear.

The Most Important Rule isn’t relevant here anyway. If a model can’t fit it can’t fit. There are no rules allowing counts-as placement, outside of Wobbly Model which doesn’t apply, so simple physics and the absence of any rules permission both say the model doesn’t fit. Doesn’t matter what a YouTuber said.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The Most Important Rule isn’t relevant here anyway. If a model can’t fit it can’t fit. There are no rules allowing counts-as placement, outside of Wobbly Model which doesn’t apply, so simple physics and the absence of any rules permission both say the model doesn’t fit. Doesn’t matter what a YouTuber said.

Agreed.

Just as a side note from someone who's played at the LVO and other ITC tournies:

If your moving a troop unit into a magic box that is a bit too small to hold the actual models, they still let you do it. Your even encouraged to stand your models on top of the box and just say they are inside it so that noone forgets they are there.

IMO, personally speaking, in entirely my own personal preferences:

A game where a model carrying a banner cannot move into the first floor of a ruin because it is inconceivable that he holds the banner in a different position is a game I do not want to play.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

A game where a model carrying a banner cannot move into the first floor of a ruin because it is inconceivable that he holds the banner in a different position is a game I do not want to play.

If you are a guardsman carrying your Regimental Standard whilst there is a commissar watching then it is probably a good idea to keep it held proudly aloft at all times...