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At the moment, Marines can't be infected by genestealers due to their ability to resist bodily intrusions. But given the tyranids' ability to adapt quickly, I would think that sooner or later, we will start seeing GS Marines as the spores will be able to overcome any immunity. Anyone else agree?

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
At the moment, Marines can't be infected by genestealers due to their ability to resist bodily intrusions. But given the tyranids' ability to adapt quickly, I would think that sooner or later, we will start seeing GS Marines as the spores will be able to overcome any immunity. Anyone else agree?

There's already infected Marines in the fluff - are you asking about in-game?

Isn’t that what tyrant guard were when they first dropped?
Pretty sure it was marine DNA.

Jackal90 wrote:
Isn’t that what tyrant guard were when they first dropped?
Pretty sure it was marine DNA.

That was mentioned in 3rd/4th edition -

Lexicanum wrote:Tyrant Guards are scientifically rumoured to contain the DNA of defeated Space Marine chapters as their bodies appear to include a fused ribcage and a Black Carapace, but the Imperium considers this blasphemy and denies its possibility.

beast_gts wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
At the moment, Marines can't be infected by genestealers due to their ability to resist bodily intrusions. But given the tyranids' ability to adapt quickly, I would think that sooner or later, we will start seeing GS Marines as the spores will be able to overcome any immunity. Anyone else agree?

There's already infected Marines in the fluff - are you asking about in-game?

Even a Grey Knight was not immune to being infected.

Harvesting DNA from the dead is different from being infected by a Genestealer - although I did think both were possible in the lore.

Yeah, actually infecting a SM with the Genestealer's Kiss just kills the Space Marine as their body rejects the implant and just causes their body to deteriorate. At least, according to our last lore on the matter.

Things like the Tyrant Guard being made up of SM DNA or the Grey Knight being psychically dominated aren't really the same as an actual Genestealer infestation.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
At the moment, Marines can't be infected by genestealers due to their ability to resist bodily intrusions. But given the tyranids' ability to adapt quickly, I would think that sooner or later, we will start seeing GS Marines as the spores will be able to overcome any immunity. Anyone else agree?

No. 'Genestealer Marines' don't make any sense. Except in a weird off-case where someone like Fabius Bile randomly decides to stick marine organs into a genestealer or hybrid for lulz.

The genestealer infection doesn't make anyone a genestealer, it makes them breed and create new hybrids the natural way, something (as far as we know, and there have been zero examples) marines literally can't do.

The closest we've seen or likely will see is in "The Great Work". The Scythes of the Emperor apparently had some issues, and it was less "Genestealer Marines" and more...

Spoilers:

Voss wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
At the moment, Marines can't be infected by genestealers due to their ability to resist bodily intrusions. But given the tyranids' ability to adapt quickly, I would think that sooner or later, we will start seeing GS Marines as the spores will be able to overcome any immunity. Anyone else agree?

No. 'Genestealer Marines' don't make any sense. Except in a weird off-case where someone like Fabius Bile randomly decides to stick marine organs into a genestealer or hybrid for lulz.

The genestealer infection doesn't make anyone a genestealer, it makes them breed and create new hybrids the natural way, something (as far as we know, and there have been zero examples) marines literally can't do.

The idea of Fabius Bile deliberately reconstructing the genestealer DNA to overcome SM DNA would fit, and him then unleashing said GM-Genestealers onto a marine planet to subsequently lure a tyranid hive-fleet into the system... ...yeah I could see chaos doing such a thing!

yeah, being as for the GS seed to propagate and a cycle to begin, the initial recipient has to procreate with someone to birth the first generation hybrid, and SM would not be doing this.

Back in the early days, I'm pretty sure you could give Genestealer Cult units power armour (and thus assume they were ex-Marines, etc.). That may have been as far back as Rogue Trader though.

 Elbows wrote:
Back in the early days, I'm pretty sure you could give Genestealer Cult units power armour (and thus assume they were ex-Marines, etc.). That may have been as far back as Rogue Trader though.

It was definitely back in Rogue Trader. Power Armor also wasn't a rare thing back in those days.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Back in the early days, I'm pretty sure you could give Genestealer Cult units power armour (and thus assume they were ex-Marines, etc.). That may have been as far back as Rogue Trader though.

It was definitely back in Rogue Trader. Power Armor also wasn't a rare thing back in those days.

I want a three armed genestealer hybrind in Battle Sister boob-plate.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Back in the early days, I'm pretty sure you could give Genestealer Cult units power armour (and thus assume they were ex-Marines, etc.). That may have been as far back as Rogue Trader though.

It was definitely back in Rogue Trader. Power Armor also wasn't a rare thing back in those days.

I want a three armed genestealer hybrind in Battle Sister boob-plate.

There are infected Sisters in at least one novel.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Back in the early days, I'm pretty sure you could give Genestealer Cult units power armour (and thus assume they were ex-Marines, etc.). That may have been as far back as Rogue Trader though.

It was definitely back in Rogue Trader. Power Armor also wasn't a rare thing back in those days.

Yeah, it's the older GSC fluff - along with Eldar hybrids and other weirdness...

Back in those RT days it was a free for all, anything goes, no one gave a damn! Fun, but not so suited to nowadays where there's more structure and established in universe rules to follow


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Back in the early days, I'm pretty sure you could give Genestealer Cult units power armour (and thus assume they were ex-Marines, etc.). That may have been as far back as Rogue Trader though.

It was definitely back in Rogue Trader. Power Armor also wasn't a rare thing back in those days.

I want a three armed genestealer hybrind in Battle Sister boob-plate.

There are infected Sisters in at least one novel.

Sisters are plausible as they are unenhanced, and aren't sterile like SM are, and they would feel the absolute desire to procreate after being implanted by a GS.

Space marines aren't immune to disease and infection, they're just resistant. Plague marines would be impossible otherwise.

Their immune systems aren't infallible. Virus bombs still kill them if they're not in their power armour.

the genestealer kiss functions like a retrovirus so there's no reason at all that a marine can't be infected.

The fact that they don't BREED is going to be the main reason they aren't infected much. However the infection ties them to the brood mind and makes them loyal. Combine that with their centuries long lifespan and they may not be infected for their breeding purposes but as brood bodyguards.

Having a bunch of marines watch over the patriarch and the brood HQ for centuries as it builds up would be a potent tool.

 Mr Morden wrote:
There are infected Sisters in at least one novel.

I think "Cult of the Warmason" is the most recent example, but I wonder if GW are going to ignore it like they have Chaos Sisters - Daemonifuge had an army of Slaanesh Sisters but the current Codex states that only a single Sister has ever fallen (to Slaanesh again - but that might just be unreliable narrator).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellebore wrote:
Having a bunch of marines watch over the patriarch and the brood HQ for centuries as it builds up would be a potent tool.

I need to re-read Belisarius Cawl: The Great Work, but I think that's what happened - a couple of Marines were infected pre-Kraken, and several more kissed during the invasion.

Hellebore wrote:
Space marines aren't immune to disease and infection, they're just resistant. Plague marines would be impossible otherwise.

Their immune systems aren't infallible. Virus bombs still kill them if they're not in their power armour.

the genestealer kiss functions like a retrovirus so there's no reason at all that a marine can't be infected.

The fact that they don't BREED is going to be the main reason they aren't infected much. However the infection ties them to the brood mind and makes them loyal. Combine that with their centuries long lifespan and they may not be infected for their breeding purposes but as brood bodyguards.

Having a bunch of marines watch over the patriarch and the brood HQ for centuries as it builds up would be a potent tool.

Space marines are actually a lot like genestealers.

Both essentially reproduce by infecting humans.

A human 'infected' by a genestealer will produce hybrid progeny upon breeding.

A young human 'infected' by a space marine will have it's development altered so it instead grows into a space marine. (space marines infect humans by grafting a set of progenoids into the youth).

My suggestion, is if a genestealer 'infects' a space marine, that space marine's progenoids would become infected. Usually this would not be much of a problem; the infection would be discovered by the chapter's medical team and would be destroyed instead of being used to transform humans into space marines.

So, to have 'gene stealer space marines' we would need a situation where the marines are in limited numbers, desperate for replacements and working with little oversight.

This suggest to me perhaps a chapter that is all but destroyed, or a demi company working in isolation. They don't have access to stored progenoid material and have to work with what they've got. Perhaps this isolated number of space marines has seen action against a Tyrranid infestation and the (head) apothecary survived a genestealer attack, and was unwittingly bought under the genestealer's influence. A chaplain or Librarian would ordinarily detect such taint and be able to work against it, so we'll have to assume those roles are already out of the picture (perhaps also infected, or simply dead / missing).

This scenario creates the situation where a significant number of progenoid glands have been infected, no other progenoid glands are available for use, and oversight of the process to create new space marines has greatly degraded, allowing a corrupted apothecarion to transfer genestealer infected progenoids into an aspirant (who may too also be infected with genetic material, if not a human/genestealer hybrid already).

It's all very 'million to one' chance, but of course in literature those happen every time, as that is what makes a story within a setting exceptional.

beast_gts wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Back in the early days, I'm pretty sure you could give Genestealer Cult units power armour (and thus assume they were ex-Marines, etc.). That may have been as far back as Rogue Trader though.

It was definitely back in Rogue Trader. Power Armor also wasn't a rare thing back in those days.

Yeah, it's the older GSC fluff - along with Eldar hybrids and other weirdness...

Surely you're not referencing the infamous Ork GSC hybrids?


Note: The Ork banner with a three armed Ork...

The only reason I remember power armour (which, yeah in RT basically predated the idea of current Space Marines), is that my buddy in high school was doing some really nice conversions making power armored cultists, etc. to fight alongside his father's Tyranids army.

beast_gts wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
There are infected Sisters in at least one novel.

I think "Cult of the Warmason" is the most recent example, but I wonder if GW are going to ignore it like they have Chaos Sisters - Daemonifuge had an army of Slaanesh Sisters but the current Codex states that only a single Sister has ever fallen (to Slaanesh again - but that might just be an unreliable narrator.

Whilst post-slaaneshi-wibbling they turned up with guns and blades, it's not entirely clear if they were a militant order rather than something like pronatus or dialogus.
Plus there's a non-zero chance Inquisitor Hand had all records of them erased....

Not Genestealers specifically, but tyranid dominated marines have already been a thing in the form.of mind slaves.

https://mrsaturdaysmumblings.blogspot.com/2019/06/genestealer-cult-mindslaves.html?m=1

Considering genestealers managed to overtake a craftworld including an avatar of khaine, a metal construct and infused with godly power, marines should be easy.

Ugh that was so dumb. Let's leave that fluff to be forgotten.

 kingheff wrote:
Considering genestealers managed to overtake a craftworld including an avatar of khaine, a metal construct and infused with godly power, marines should be easy.

If you're talking about the Ynnari book, didn't the Eldar willingly give themselves to the GSC?

beast_gts wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
Considering genestealers managed to overtake a craftworld including an avatar of khaine, a metal construct and infused with godly power, marines should be easy.

If you're talking about the Ynnari book, didn't the Eldar willingly give themselves to the GSC?

Yeah, that's what I remember, they were dying out or something like that. No problem with eldar gsc as such but what is basically a demon gsc? Yeah, that's pretty dumb!

 kingheff wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
Considering genestealers managed to overtake a craftworld including an avatar of khaine, a metal construct and infused with godly power, marines should be easy.

If you're talking about the Ynnari book, didn't the Eldar willingly give themselves to the GSC?

Yeah, that's what I remember, they were dying out or something like that. No problem with eldar gsc as such but what is basically a demon gsc? Yeah, that's pretty dumb!

IIRC they were scared of Slaanesh and had no infinity circuits or spirit stones so obviously becoming horrifying hybrids was a solution.

pm713 wrote:

 kingheff wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
Considering genestealers managed to overtake a craftworld including an avatar of khaine, a metal construct and infused with godly power, marines should be easy.

If you're talking about the Ynnari book, didn't the Eldar willingly give themselves to the GSC?

Yeah, that's what I remember, they were dying out or something like that. No problem with eldar gsc as such but what is basically a demon gsc? Yeah, that's pretty dumb!

IIRC they were scared of Slaanesh and had no infinity circuits or spirit stones so obviously becoming horrifying hybrids was a solution.

That's right, I actually thought the basic premise wasn't bad, it's hard to imagine how a normal gsc would avoid being detected due to the psychic connections eldar share. But the avatar patriarch was beyond dumb.

nareik wrote:
My suggestion, is if a genestealer 'infects' a space marine, that space marine's progenoids would become infected. Usually this would not be much of a problem; the infection would be discovered by the chapter's medical team and would be destroyed instead of being used to transform humans into space marines.

So, to have 'gene stealer space marines' we would need a situation where the marines are in limited numbers, desperate for replacements and working with little oversight.

This suggest to me perhaps a chapter that is all but destroyed, or a demi company working in isolation. They don't have access to stored progenoid material and have to work with what they've got. Perhaps this isolated number of space marines has seen action against a Tyrranid infestation and the (head) apothecary survived a genestealer attack, and was unwittingly bought under the genestealer's influence. A chaplain or Librarian would ordinarily detect such taint and be able to work against it, so we'll have to assume those roles are already out of the picture (perhaps also infected, or simply dead / missing).

This scenario creates the situation where a significant number of progenoid glands have been infected, no other progenoid glands are available for use, and oversight of the process to create new space marines has greatly degraded, allowing a corrupted apothecarion to transfer genestealer infected progenoids into an aspirant (who may too also be infected with genetic material, if not a human/genestealer hybrid already).

It's all very 'million to one' chance, but of course in literature those happen every time, as that is what makes a story within a setting exceptional.

I really like that explanation; a space marine chapter get absolutely shredded fighting the Tyranids, with only a single Apothecarion surviving, and unfortunately he's been infected by a genestealer. That actually works.

Semi-related, the Twisted Helix are pretty much the "Science Cult", right? While not strictly Space Marines, how close would they be able to get if they got their hands on some geneseed?