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How do?

Took delivery today of a copy of ‘Ere We Go, one of three Orky source books from the dim and distant past. Sourced from eBay, and it’s two companion volumes are to follow in due course.

These aren’t just for show, as such old books contain an absolute wealth of very, very early background. So they make for excellent reading.

I mean, we’re talking the origin of 40k. And quite a chunk of it survives more or less unchanged to this very day. Particularly for Orks.

Added to my Realm of Chaos books (WHW Reprints, well worth picking up if you get the chance. Spesh for £35), that’s pretty much the whole set. Sadly, Eldar didn’t get an equivalent volume. Certainly, not that I’m aware of (though Codex Titanicus covers them quite nicely)

And this thread in tended for, well, discussion about them. It’s not intended to be an Old Boys Club, exclusively for those who have copies. Oh no. If you’ve not experienced these books and have questions, shoot!

I absolutely love the variety of art in those old books. Wild imagination and often crude renderings enrich the world they were making.

I'd love to get my hands on some more of those old tomes, I only have the Rogue Trader book and the Compilation. I nearly have a 2000 point 2nd Ed army of the Realm of Chaos era CSM. Looking forward to painting those up.

Compilation is one I’ve never owned.

I always get a bit ‘oof’ the prices for books where I don’t know how much of the are background.

Terrible English there, but hopefully peeps get what I’m saying so hamfistedly!

Ere we go is cool for ork players - as you say, takes you back to the formation of orks as a kulture.

While eldar pirates got mentioned in the first Chapter Approved book, the Eldar race as a whole didn't get anything like that until 1990, when they got the WD127 revamp (where they brought in the aspects, avatar, etc).

I've still got my copies of the big red compendium (which combined the dreadnought/walker rules, the robots, the bike rules, vehicle rules, as well as a few army lists (like Harlequins) and Chapter Approved First book of the Astronomican.

Just procured the Compendium and Vehicle Manual from eBay.

Really do love seeing how it all started!


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Ahh, the sample Goff Warband. And the birth of not just Ghaz, but Mad Dok Grotsnik.

Were they really and truly the products of random rolling? Who knows. What we do know is that other than getting bigger and flightier, Ghaz has always been Ghaz! Shot in the bonce, patched up by Grotsnik, with his psychic abilities awakened as a result!

Kind of crazy that what was originally a relatively throwaway ‘how to’ article in a random WD would go on to have such a massive impact!

Did his stablemate Nazdreg come from such humble beginnings? Well, I’ll need to await the arrival of my copy of Freebooterz to find out!

Got rid of so many old edition books when I moved. Ditto on White Dwarf back issues.

I got the digital Index Imperialis Apocrypha- great book, shame about the E-Pub format. Gonna try and and download a bootleg PDF of it- GW can't say I didn't pay for the intellectual property.

I'd love a paper copy of Rogue Trader. So much material to work with from a design perspective. Very easy to generate randomized warbands and that sort of thing. I'm happy that the design team gave us era throwbacks via BSF like the Ambull and the Zoat.

I hope that after BSF ends, there is another vehicle for those old bits of lore to make it back into the game. I have neither the Zoat nor the Abull yet, and I want them both because I think they'd be great quarry for DE beastmasters.

Recently, I've been on a navigator kick, trying to flesh out House Locarno for a Kilt Team project. They're in the Apocrypha- House Locarno is another one of those little Easter eggs in 8th for the Gamer Ancients out their, as are all the Rogue Traders, really.

That sense of continuity between the absolute beginning of the game and this edition is the reason I get so rabid when I see people slagging 8th. I've never felt as seen, heard and recognized by a company after so many years of faith as I did when GW started building models for the folks who had been there since the beginning.

Got my peepers on the last book I need to complete a set of RT era 40k books....

Turns out, a friend also has a near complete set of his own. So who knows? Dakka may yet see a project log of an oldish duffer and his oldisher duffer mate having a bash at assembling a RT era army, using modern models.

Not in a snobbish ‘oh my gawd this is so much better’ way. Just as a ‘we figured we might as well put the books to use, see what it was like all these years later’. Like historical reeanactment.

Given RT didn’t exactly use that many models, it should prove fairly cost effective.


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OK.....just discovered the Compilation....which I’ve ordered.

Friend is up for a RT experiment, and is opting for a Rogue Trader himself.

Reckon I’ll go Orks!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ahh, the sample Goff Warband. And the birth of not just Ghaz, but Mad Dok Grotsnik.

Were they really and truly the products of random rolling? Who knows. What we do know is that other than getting bigger and flightier, Ghaz has always been Ghaz! Shot in the bonce, patched up by Grotsnik, with his psychic abilities awakened as a result!

Kind of crazy that what was originally a relatively throwaway ‘how to’ article in a random WD would go on to have such a massive impact!

Did his stablemate Nazdreg come from such humble beginnings? Well, I’ll need to await the arrival of my copy of Freebooterz to find out!

Risking going off on a tangent - who was the first 'special character' to get a model and rules? Leman Russ & Lord Macragge (Ultra Marine Commander) both had models in the late 80s / early 90s but were there any rules to go along with them?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Got my peepers on the last book I need to complete a set of RT era 40k books....

Turns out, a friend also has a near complete set of his own. So who knows? Dakka may yet see a project log of an oldish duffer and his oldisher duffer mate having a bash at assembling a RT era army, using modern models.

Not in a snobbish ‘oh my gawd this is so much better’ way. Just as a ‘we figured we might as well put the books to use, see what it was like all these years later’. Like historical reeanactment.

Given RT didn’t exactly use that many models, it should prove fairly cost effective.


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OK.....just discovered the Compilation....which I’ve ordered.

Friend is up for a RT experiment, and is opting for a Rogue Trader himself.

Reckon I’ll go Orks!

So many of those early ork models are downright magical in terms of creativity and character. I have a friend who's collecting some now, and they're just awesome. I totally get the aesthetic and design changes that were made to Orks for 3rd edition, but something special was definitely lost.

beast_gts wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ahh, the sample Goff Warband. And the birth of not just Ghaz, but Mad Dok Grotsnik.

Were they really and truly the products of random rolling? Who knows. What we do know is that other than getting bigger and flightier, Ghaz has always been Ghaz! Shot in the bonce, patched up by Grotsnik, with his psychic abilities awakened as a result!

Kind of crazy that what was originally a relatively throwaway ‘how to’ article in a random WD would go on to have such a massive impact!

Did his stablemate Nazdreg come from such humble beginnings? Well, I’ll need to await the arrival of my copy of Freebooterz to find out!

Risking going off on a tangent - who was the first 'special character' to get a model and rules? Leman Russ & Lord Macragge (Ultra Marine Commander) both had models in the late 80s / early 90s but were there any rules to go along with them?

Spoiler:

Certainly Ragnar Blackmane and his mates were used in a RT Battle Report.

From memory (subject to change once I get my book’s) I do seem to recall Ragnar having specific rules, including blades in his boots. But, whether or not they were formally published, or made from a generic template I couldn’t say.

Certainly Ghaz didn’t get his model until after his debut.


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 Insectum7 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Got my peepers on the last book I need to complete a set of RT era 40k books....

Turns out, a friend also has a near complete set of his own. So who knows? Dakka may yet see a project log of an oldish duffer and his oldisher duffer mate having a bash at assembling a RT era army, using modern models.

Not in a snobbish ‘oh my gawd this is so much better’ way. Just as a ‘we figured we might as well put the books to use, see what it was like all these years later’. Like historical reeanactment.

Given RT didn’t exactly use that many models, it should prove fairly cost effective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK.....just discovered the Compilation....which I’ve ordered.

Friend is up for a RT experiment, and is opting for a Rogue Trader himself.

Reckon I’ll go Orks!

So many of those early ork models are downright magical in terms of creativity and character. I have a friend who's collecting some now, and they're just awesome. I totally get the aesthetic and design changes that were made to Orks for 3rd edition, but something special was definitely lost.

They are pretty cool. The best for me were the hybrid kits.

Plastic at that time was in its infancy. Useful for army building, but not much in the way of detail. And some of the single piece metal models were of differing scales. Largely an artefact of the game itself being something of a constant work in progress.

But the metal bodies with plastic arms? The right mix of the two materials. Unfortunately, that makes them fairly hard to come by.

I can come across the bodies easily enough, and given I need relatively few not too expensive. But, finding a decent selection of period arms and armaments is a bit trickier.

I probably could do this as a serious labour of love, and may do yet. But for now, happy to use the modern models for convenience.

beast_gts wrote:
Risking going off on a tangent - who was the first 'special character' to get a model and rules? Leman Russ & Lord Macragge (Ultra Marine Commander) both had models in the late 80s / early 90s but were there any rules to go along with them?

I am pretty sure it was Ghazkull and Yarrick around the summer of 92. They had full rules and points to go with their models. The various SW characters followed a few months later and basically laid the foundations for what would become 2nd edition.

Are you planning to go full retro and do The Battle At The Farm?

There’s a possibility there!

Whilst heading off to sleep last night, came up with a bit of background for my Orks.

Essentially, it’s all that left of the tribe following a space battle, specifically the Warboss and his best ladz. Prior to the destruction of their ship, they were gathered on The Bridge. A shot caused the Bridge to become detached, hurling it through space.

All this excitement proved too much for the resident Weirdboy, who’s bizarre powers transported the bridge to a remote, non-Imperial system. It also turned him inside out, stranding the Boyz.

Ever since, Warboss Gitsmasha has lead his Boyz on a rampage of the human inhabited world, aided and abetted by some criminal types.

Gonna play around with an army list later, I think.

For the skumbo ‘oomie squad, I’m considering Orlock Gangers. Aesthetically they’re a pretty decent match. Higher tech looking than Orks, but still quite industrial and practical - as if they’re built to last. I did consider Goliaths, but fear they’d just look like Pink Orks. Plus, Orlocks come with Heavy Stubbers, which can be taken in the squad.

That’s the Vehicle Manual and Battle Manual arrived.

Particularly exciting, as I’ve never seen, let alone read or owned these before, so all entirely new.

After a (very) cursory flick through? You can definitely see Rogue Trader becoming 2nd Ed in terms of the rules.

The weapon rules are laid out identically, and the vehicle rules are instantly recognisable as a precursor (main difference was ditching the clear plastic targeting grid, in favour of just rolling a D6 for location depending on facing).

So 2nd Ed is the Battle Manual, it was the catalogue pages (which were a thing!) offering distinctly RT era models that confirmed it was definitely a 1st Ed publication!

Yeah, I joined in the dying days of RT, to the point where when I got the RT rulebook itself (after having been a WD addict for a few months and trying to figure out the rules from articles and battle reports... Yeah, I know) - I barely recognised it as a GW product, everything was presented very differently.

I think RT as it was initially designed was practically unplayable, to be honest, the Battle Manual cleaned up a lot of stuff and 2nd ed laid the groundwork for the "corporate" 40k we have now. A lot of charm in those early models and scratchbuilds though... Nostalgia is a hell of a drug ;-)

Vehicle Manual is an odd duck. Almost a boxed set without a box!

Majority of it is thick card stock vehicle templates, which would become Datafaxes in 2nd Ed.

The actual rules are a separate booklet, which would be instantly familiar to anyone who played 2nd Ed Space Marine.

It also includes build guides for the Whirlwind (conversion) and Gobsmasha (scratchbuild).

So it really is bridging the gap between the ‘sod it, let’s go mental’ Rogue Trader feel, and the ‘OK, we’ve got a bit more order to it this time’ of 2nd Ed.

Maybe I’ll have a bash at making a Gobsmasha...that really depends on how much I like my fingers, as I’m not the dabbest hand at such things!

And hey, pretty sure all of us of a certain vintage had the same ‘can I work it out from WD’ experience of the rules. It’s a skill that actually helps me out in my current career! Nothing like being able to make an educated guess whilst you consider what it is you need to know to complete the picture.


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Strikes me that peeps might benefit from a list of the RT era books, done in order of release. Plus a brief description of the contents (Waaargh! The Orks for instance is only background. No rules!)

Might help people decide which ones they might want to pick up.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Vehicle Manual is an odd duck. Almost a boxed set without a box!

Majority of it is thick card stock vehicle templates, which would become Datafaxes in 2nd Ed.

The actual rules are a separate booklet, which would be instantly familiar to anyone who played 2nd Ed Space Marine.

It also includes build guides for the Whirlwind (conversion) and Gobsmasha (scratchbuild).

So it really is bridging the gap between the ‘sod it, let’s go mental’ Rogue Trader feel, and the ‘OK, we’ve got a bit more order to it this time’ of 2nd Ed.

Maybe I’ll have a bash at making a Gobsmasha...that really depends on how much I like my fingers, as I’m not the dabbest hand at such things!

And hey, pretty sure all of us of a certain vintage had the same ‘can I work it out from WD’ experience of the rules. It’s a skill that actually helps me out in my current career! Nothing like being able to make an educated guess whilst you consider what it is you need to know to complete the picture.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Strikes me that peeps might benefit from a list of the RT era books, done in order of release. Plus a brief description of the contents (Waaargh! The Orks for instance is only background. No rules!)

Might help people decide which ones they might want to pick up.

This is what lexicanum lists as RT publications

Looks about right. Only one I don’t have is Siege.

Never saw that before- mind you, Kid Kyoto has done reviews of a lot of the old RT stuff, he might have something

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Looks about right. Only one I don’t have is Siege.

Siege is a cross-game book, a small 120 page* hardback, and the 40k rules start on page 90. Its official title is simply Warhammer Siege, but also has a 40k logo in the bottom right of the cover.

Fun fact: ork 'stompers' first appeared in this book as siege dreadnoughts, with a ball and chain 'demolisher' siege weapon.

It also featured 'Fort Macragge,' as an example fortress which is just the old Citadel castle (4 walls, 4 towers), with defense lasers on top (and a couple below ground levels). The fluff portion has been heavily, and hilariously, retconned, as it states that after the destruction of Hive Fleet Behemoth in 751.M41, the Emperor gave custody of Macragge to the Ultramarines, with the titles of Imperial Commander and Lord Macragge and full Adeptus Astartes status Since then, it says, they've moved their fortress monastery to Macragge, building it on top of the site where the "No. 1 Company" died (yeah, abbreviation and all), killed by Tyranids and Zoats.

Good times, good times. I love finding old fluff that's barely recognizable and fairly incoherent.

*well, and a rules summary and reference which, for some reason is duplicated on the front and back end sheets- its literally part of the cover binding,

Voss wrote:

It also featured 'Fort Macragge,' as an example fortress which is just the old Citadel castle (4 walls, 4 towers), with defense lasers on top (and a couple below ground levels). The fluff portion has been heavily, and hilariously, retconned, as it states that after the destruction of Hive Fleet Behemoth in 751.M41, the Emperor gave custody of Macragge to the Ultramarines, with the titles of Imperial COmmander and Lord Macragge and full Adeptus Astartes status Since then, it says, they've moved their fortress monastery to Macragge, building it on top of the site where the "No. 1 Company" died (yeah, abbreviation and all), killed by Tyranids and Zoats.

That's awesome! I had no idea.

I like how it now reads as a sort of Peasant’s version of history. Very, if inadvertently 40k. Just found a copy on eBay, £30 BIN.

£20-£25 cheaper than others? Snaffle!

And now to watch the auction for Chapter Approved like a hawk....


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And won the auction! £65 + P&P, so not over the odds, and less than my max bid. Lovely.

Soon I shall have every RT era book arrayed upon my shelf!

Compilation arrived today. Currently working (well, y’know, kinda. Ish. Not too hard) so will have to wait to start ploughing through it.


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Compilation arrived today. Currently working (well, y’know, kinda. Ish. Not too hard) so will have to wait to start ploughing through it.

Slowly getting there with the deliveries.

Original AT rules and Rogue Trader today, three more to go. Typically, two of the three are probably quite essential to actually play the game!

I've just finished Waargh The Orks in PDF form from Scribd, there's some great stuff in there- loved the description of Ork music in particular

Today, postie brought me both Siege, and the Compendium.

Flicked through the Compendium, found the Robot rules.....nearly had a nosebleed!

But hey, the thing to remember is that you’re playing with a couple of dozen models in most armies, so crunchy isn’t to be overtly feared!

Will certainly provide some decent gymnastics for the old noggin.

Let us know how that RT experiment works out; really curious to see how it actually feels to play old vs new back to back. Great idea.

Oh yeah, and I'm envious of the book collection- that's quite an achievement.

To be honest, with the pubs all closed, and nowhere else to go? Gotta spend me wages on something!

And I suspect I may have found decent prices because of the wider situation. Feels a bit predatory, but it’s not like I’ve found them at bargain basement ‘clearly no idea what they’re actually selling’ prices.

Once I’m familiar with the books, I may look to sell on my copy of Index Imperialis Apocrypha. Fairly sure I’ve no real need for it now!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Today, postie brought me both Siege, and the Compendium.

Flicked through the Compendium, found the Robot rules.....nearly had a nosebleed!

But hey, the thing to remember is that you’re playing with a couple of dozen models in most armies, so crunchy isn’t to be overtly feared!

Will certainly provide some decent gymnastics for the old noggin.

The robot construction rules are pretty much the same as the dreadnought construction rules too (which are also in the compendium). But yeah, the programming rules ... Roborally bots are easier to program.
Back in the day when the eldar Dreadnoughts had a pilot under that head fairing, instead of a spirit stone. Although the "Spirit Warrior" was the direct predecessor to the wraithlord (A dreadnought powered by a spirit stone of a fallen eldar). The Ghost warrior bots (little things) were nasty for their time, too. Hard to see, hard to hit and little monsters in cc.

Indeedy.

And with Postie interrupting a Pokemon Go Raid?

That’s Rogue Trader Numberwang, as Waaargh! the Orks and Freebooterz have arrived after their two stage Canadian sojourn,

Got Book of the Astronomicon yesterday, and it’s pretty weird! Half of it is a campaign, and Orks were surprisingly cultured (not even with a K!).

Reckon I’ll do a blog type post, charting how 40k developed pretty rapidly during the RT era.