Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With all the expansions Intercessor Sergeants have gotten a TON of upgrade options. We've gone from having just the option to take a chainsword to having the powerfist, powersword, thunderhammer, hand flamer, plasma pistol. I'm not complaining about this, I think they needed it. The problem is, why just the Intercessor Sergeants? Those upgrade sprues could be used on any sergeant, not to mention Captains, Lieutenants, and librarians. I wonder why they were so selective with it.

Oh, if only there were some way to buy specific bitz for models....

proably cause intercessors are supposed to be the "multipurpose backbone squad" of primaris Marines.

If I had to guess ? Because they never planned for Int Sgts to get these upgrades hence why they aren't in their core box. They had to make them in upgrade kits as I guess they just didn't figure people liked options anymore. I hate choices.

It's literally because they're made from a multipart kit, and Intercessors, as troops, are supposed to be more of a frontline unit than Hellblasters, the other Tacticus unit.

If I'm being honest, I think Phobos and Gravis units shouldn't have unique Sergeant upgrades (exception made for the Eliminators), and that kind of thing should be more in the Tacticus purview.

I'd love for Hellblaster Sergeants and Lieutenants and Captains to get a widened arsenal, and even Intercessor Sergeants to get access to plasma pistols.

No good reason.

I get that no model no rules is the rule of the day. Pisses me off, but it is what it is.

I get that the upgrades are not available for phobos armor, or the HQs. The upgrade sprues are not designed for them, and you might need to do a hand swap, or some other highly technical conversion work that requires the use of your basic hobby knife. /sarcasm. Despite the face that the phobos units (reivers especially) could use them to good effect, and HQs should have full access to the armory.

But hellblasters? Those kits should be 100% compatible. NMNR should not be the reason they don’t get them.

Not in-game lore reason. No broken game mechanics that need to be curbed. And even no NMNR excuse.

I’m getting more angry then I should writing this. One of my hot buttons.

Just wait. They'll release primaris character upgrade packs.
That way you can buy sergeant ones AND HQ ones.
Then primaris base upgrade packs.
Primaris head upgrade packs.
Primaris pinky finger upgrade packs.
Add infinitum.
Add nausea...

 ValentineGames wrote:
Just wait. They'll release primaris character upgrade packs.
That way you can buy sergeant ones AND HQ ones.
Then primaris base upgrade packs.
Primaris head upgrade packs.
Primaris pinky finger upgrade packs.
Add infinitum.
Add nausea...

I don't see a problem with that, so long as we get the options.

To be fair about it the ones I really care about are the Infiltrators, Incursors, and Reivers, and I can see some game-balance reasons that Infiltrators and Incursors should possibly not have them. An Intercessor Sergeant can be making 5 swings with a flat D4 Thunderhammer under any chapter without taking HQ support into consideration, that's bad enough on a unit that takes at least a couple of turns to deliver.

On Incursors or Infiltrators who can be in your face turn one it would be kind of BS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...which isn't to say that if GW released a Phobos Sergeant kit like they did for Intercessors that could build a Rever, Incursor, or Infiltrator Serg with either a single Kaavan Shike-style Lighting Claw and the unit's base gun or Twin Shike-style LCs and the unit's base pistol I wouldn't immediately order six of them.

And if it just happened to include a larger base and cape bit and a couple of new weapon loadouts for the Phobos Captain and Lieutenant, a couple more would find their way into my cart.

On a $35 kit that would be $260 from me alone, why don't you want my money GW?

There's too many individual upgrades in the game. Things like CCW weapons aren't that high impact like heavy/special weapons can be. I appreciate how restrained they have been in options for Primaris.

Umbros wrote:

There's too many individual upgrades in the game. Things like CCW weapons aren't that high impact like heavy/special weapons can be. I appreciate how restrained they have been in options for Primaris.

I know close combat has been playing second fiddle to shooting for a while now, but the different weapon choices are the special/heavy options of the assault world. The fact that they are not “high impact” has more with the shooting bias of the overall game. And sergeants are how most marines units get them. The fact that they are erratically restricted is the rub here.

I will agree that there are probably more options then there really need to be. I was fine when all power weapons were the same, and there wasn’t a split with sword/axe/maul/spear. But that’s not restricted to close combat. IMHO there is no reason for there to be as many bespoke bolt rifles smeared all over the primaris range.

But that’s another debate for another topic.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 ValentineGames wrote:
Just wait. They'll release primaris character upgrade packs.
That way you can buy sergeant ones AND HQ ones.
Then primaris base upgrade packs.
Primaris head upgrade packs.
Primaris pinky finger upgrade packs.
Add infinitum.
Add nausea...

I don't see a problem with that, so long as we get the options.

More likely you'll get the options in the rules, but have to scrounge bits or convert, same as if csm want combi weapons for our aspiring champions or chosen. Just because you have the option in the rules doesn't always mean gw is nice enough to provide an easy source for the models, unfortunately.

That sounds more plausible than I like.

No model, no rules. This is another drag-on effect of that policy.

The Newman wrote:
That sounds more plausible than I like.

It's not too bad especially if you're ok with going third party for the conversion bits. I've seen lots of good alternative weapons for primaris. If gw makes a kit you'll probably get one of the best options and four of the worst. Have you seen some of the fw weapons kits? One thunder hammer and four bolt pistols.

 Elbows wrote:
No model, no rules. This is another drag-on effect of that policy.

But that's just the thing, there IS a model. Intercessors don't have those options in the box, you need to get the Primaris upgrade sprue. That upgrade sprue is just as viable (model wise) for a Primaris Captain or Helblaster sergeant as it is for an Intercessor sergeant.

It probably says Intercessor Upgrade Sprue, so that automatically cancels anything silly like that!

The gearing for marines is a strange thing. A guy from my school modeled his librarian to have a force staff, only to find out that primaris can legaly only have power swords, unless they are Tigurius, and he couldn't use it. Spend a lot of money on parts too, because he bought the librarian kit, a 5 man GK strike box used a helmet from an ETB skull marine and a cloak from some WFB kit.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 ValentineGames wrote:
Just wait. They'll release primaris character upgrade packs.
That way you can buy sergeant ones AND HQ ones.
Then primaris base upgrade packs.
Primaris head upgrade packs.
Primaris pinky finger upgrade packs.
Add infinitum.
Add nausea...

I don't see a problem with that, so long as we get the options.

More likely you'll get the options in the rules, but have to scrounge bits or convert, same as if csm want combi weapons for our aspiring champions or chosen. Just because you have the option in the rules doesn't always mean gw is nice enough to provide an easy source for the models, unfortunately.

Or worse. Chain axes on terminators...
*sigh*

Karol wrote:
The gearing for marines is a strange thing. A guy from my school modeled his librarian to have a force staff, only to find out that primaris can legaly only have power swords, unless they are Tigurius, and he couldn't use it. Spend a lot of money on parts too, because he bought the librarian kit, a 5 man GK strike box used a helmet from an ETB skull marine and a cloak from some WFB kit.

Just use the Force Stave as a Sword then. That's part of the problem with having Power Swords/Axes/Lances/Mauls is that only two ever get really used (true for last edition, true for this one). A more generic profile means more freedom in modeling and little repercussions from that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ValentineGames wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 ValentineGames wrote:
Just wait. They'll release primaris character upgrade packs.
That way you can buy sergeant ones AND HQ ones.
Then primaris base upgrade packs.
Primaris head upgrade packs.
Primaris pinky finger upgrade packs.
Add infinitum.
Add nausea...

I don't see a problem with that, so long as we get the options.

More likely you'll get the options in the rules, but have to scrounge bits or convert, same as if csm want combi weapons for our aspiring champions or chosen. Just because you have the option in the rules doesn't always mean gw is nice enough to provide an easy source for the models, unfortunately.

Or worse. Chain axes on terminators...
*sigh*

Unfortunately you have to go to FW if you want a reasonable amount of them, or a 3rd party bitz maker.

Karol wrote:
The gearing for marines is a strange thing. A guy from my school modeled his librarian to have a force staff, only to find out that primaris can legaly only have power swords, unless they are Tigurius, and he couldn't use it. Spend a lot of money on parts too, because he bought the librarian kit, a 5 man GK strike box used a helmet from an ETB skull marine and a cloak from some WFB kit.

That’s a simple counts-as. Especially as primaris librarians -don’t- have options, so there is not the issue of did you pay for the different gear or not. Sure, it’s not WYSWYG, but honestly, the flavor of force weapon is mostly irrelevant anyway. And your friend will have a cool, unique model.

I just kitbashed a phobos chaplain. No rules for him, but I will just use the normal primaris chaplain rules, and have a unique looking guy to lead my vanguard forces.

Rule of Cool covers a lot of sins.

Before Phobos Captains were a thing, I'd already kitbashed a Phobo Captain and was just going to use them as a stalker bolter Primaris Captain. When the actual Phobos was released, I just played count-as.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Before Phobos Captains were a thing, I'd already kitbashed a Phobo Captain and was just going to use them as a stalker bolter Primaris Captain. When the actual Phobos was released, I just played count-as.

Not that Phobos Captains should be a separate unit entry to begin with. That's pure bloat there.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Before Phobos Captains were a thing, I'd already kitbashed a Phobo Captain and was just going to use them as a stalker bolter Primaris Captain. When the actual Phobos was released, I just played count-as.

Not that Phobos Captains should be a separate unit entry to begin with. That's pure bloat there.

The whole marine book is like that, to be fair. So many things could be consolidated.

Still confused as to what wargear you get to keep when taking a chainsword. The Intercessor sheets been redone like 3 times already.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Still confused as to what wargear you get to keep when taking a chainsword. The Intercessor sheets been redone like 3 times already.

It’s a bit of a mess. Especially as it has some trap choices, just to keep some limited releases WYSWYG legal.

You start with a rifle, pistol, and grenades.
If you want, you can trade in your rifle for stuff. You do not want to do this. (if you want to go handflamer/CC toy, you could do this, but generally trap)

As you did not fall into the cunning trap, you may now take a CC toy off the list, which is in addition to your normal gear. This is where you get a chainsword (or hammer/fist/powersord)

So for an intercessor sarge to have a chainsword, there are a few final states.

Bolt pistol/chainsword (this is where you swap your rifle for the sword)
Handflamer/bolt pistol/chainsword (swapping your rifle for the hand flamer, which does not preclude you from taking gear from the sarge list, where you get the chainsword)
<rifle>/bolt pistol/chainsword (any rifle here, plus the chainsword from the sarge list)
<rifle>/bolt pistol/chainsword/Aux GL (still have your rile, and it’s "any model” who can take it)

Now I kinda want to make a gunslinging pistoleer with a slung chainsword... Would look cool, but be mostly useless. But I didn’t realize you could go duel pistols until looking at this.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Still confused as to what wargear you get to keep when taking a chainsword. The Intercessor sheets been redone like 3 times already.

It’s a bit of a mess. Especially as it has some trap choices, just to keep some limited releases WYSWYG legal.

You start with a rifle, pistol, and grenades.
If you want, you can trade in your rifle for stuff. You do not want to do this. (if you want to go handflamer/CC toy, you could do this, but generally trap)

As you did not fall into the cunning trap, you may now take a CC toy off the list, which is in addition to your normal gear. This is where you get a chainsword (or hammer/fist/powersord)

So for an intercessor sarge to have a chainsword, there are a few final states.

Bolt pistol/chainsword (this is where you swap your rifle for the sword)
Handflamer/bolt pistol/chainsword (swapping your rifle for the hand flamer, which does not preclude you from taking gear from the sarge list, where you get the chainsword)
<rifle>/bolt pistol/chainsword (any rifle here, plus the chainsword from the sarge list)
<rifle>/bolt pistol/chainsword/Aux GL (still have your rile, and it’s "any model” who can take it)

Now I kinda want to make a gunslinging pistoleer with a slung chainsword... Would look cool, but be mostly useless. But I didn’t realize you could go duel pistols until looking at this.

Would be awesome if intercessors got access to plasma pistols since the kit comes with a right hand bolt pistol and the hellblaster kit comes with a left hand plasma pistol

 fraser1191 wrote:
Would be awesome if intercessors got access to plasma pistols since the kit comes with a right hand bolt pistol and the hellblaster kit comes with a left hand plasma pistol

Let's not talk crazy now.

The kicker is that there are a couple Primaris units out there, like Reivers, that could very well do with some of these upgrades. Reivers in particular have been viewed as utter trash since they were introduced. Simply adding a power sword/fist to the weapons options would make them incredibly better. THe fist might be broken, but certainly the sword could be a viable, non abusable option.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Before Phobos Captains were a thing, I'd already kitbashed a Phobo Captain and was just going to use them as a stalker bolter Primaris Captain. When the actual Phobos was released, I just played count-as.

Not that Phobos Captains should be a separate unit entry to begin with. That's pure bloat there.

Well, that I agree with. I'd love something like that for every single character Primaris. Something like: X may take <Phobos> keyword. If they do so, they gain *insert abilities here*, and may instead pick weapons from the *Phobos Wargear* list. This must be represented on the model.