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When it comes to 40K Inquisitors have had a bit of a roller coaster ride over the years. Back in the day they were essentially there to lead a Grey Knight or SIsters of Battle force (Deathwatch didn't really exist then). Then in 6th edition they received a Codex, which while not overly inspiring did make me think that they would become more relevant in future. Now in 8th edition they basically are taggers on for an Imperium force.

Brave is a player who tries to make a 2,000 point Inquisition army today, with nothing but Inquisitors, Acolytes and Jokaero Weaponsmiths, plus transports.

So what can be done to make Inquisition armies more viable? Give them more units of course! My suggestion would be to remove them from other Codices and make them Inquisition only. For example:

HQ
Inquisitors as they are now, as either Ordo Malleus, Ordo Hereticus or Ordo Xenos

Troops
Inquisitorial Henchmen
Allow a squad of up to 10 models, made up of Acolytes, Jokaero Weaponsmiths, Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders. Maybe Servitors too. This is more or less what was allowed in the past, allowing for some interesting combos. For example a close combat squad made up of DCAs and Crusaders, with the Crusaders at the front.

Inquisitorial Storm Troopers
I'm not sure whether this is a good idea. Though they should be a staple of any Inquisitorial force I'm not sure how they would be significantly differentiated from the Militarum Tempestus options.

Elites
Ministorum Priests. Though I think they should just be a copy of what other Imperium forces can currently take, not exclusive to the Inquisition.

Fast Attack and Heavy Support
The existing Officio Assassinorum Assassins. Though there should also be a way to take them in an Imperium force without having to take an Inquisitor.

I'm sure there are other units that could be shoe horned into an Inquisitorial force, this is just a few thoughts off the top of my head.



So what do you think? How do we make Inquisitorial armies more useful? Do we even need to?

I guess one way to make them more relevant is that the Chambers Militant can only be deployed as part of an Inquisitorial army, led by the correct Ordo Inquisitor. I think this would be doing the Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights and Deathwatch a disservice though.

I’d like to see more inquisition o the tabletop too. I always liked the old witch hunters codex, and I’d be in favour of putting sisters of battle, grey knights and deathwatch into an inquisition codex, but that’s probably because I stopped playing around when 5th edition launched and only picked the hobby up again shortly after 8th launched.

I could totally see a generic inquisition codex with supplements for the 3 ordos which could pretty much port over all the stuff from SOB, GK and DW plus whatever else would be specific to their respective ordos.

Of course that will never happen, especially with the recent SOB release. Don’t know how much opposition this idea would face from the current players of those armies though, so might be a bad move on that front. But I wouldn’t see those armies loosing units they currently have, more allowing them to be taken in conjunction with the inquisition stuff, but still allowing an all GK/DW/SOB army to be feasible.

We don't need them to be an army at all. At most, they're a thing that should be a supplement sized book with just Inquisitors that have rules allowing for them to be taken in their Chambers Militant with no penalties, but penalties for other Imperium armies.

El Torro wrote:
So what can be done to make Inquisition armies more viable?

Inquisition are not an army unto themselves, therefore what they need to be more viaible is to be better able to join with another army.

Current inquisitiors cannot bring their retinue without breaking the mono-faction rules of their host army, which means nobody ever takes the henchmen.

As for inquisition stormtroopers, being able to take the tempestus with the inquisition faction rules rather than the tempestus faction rules would work well enough. A short list of transports that can be tagged 'inquisition' would also be useful - rhinos, chimeras, landraiders, valkyries.

The rest could be filled out with stratagems and relics, of which the inquisition have few.

No reason you can't play them now. Sure, you will lose some solo army specific bonuses, but that's OK when taken part of a mixed force.

Inquisitor, Acolytes, Jokaero as is.

Imperial Guard or Militarum Tempestus as accompanying "bulk" forces.

Then add a detachment of the following to add depending on inquisitor Ordo...Sisters, Deathwatch, Grey Knights.

And then you can spend the 2CP to add an assassin.

I have a large Deathwatch force, but only a few units for Sisters and Grey Knights so this will probably be my intro to those forces. I already have a Loyal 32 style Guard force to add some bulk and CP.

vanguard inquisition detachment + two detachment of whatever imperials you like and there you have your Inquisition army.

 bullyboy wrote:
No reason you can't play them now. Sure, you will lose some solo army specific bonuses, but that's OK when taken part of a mixed force.

You are shooting yourself in the foot for the sake of taking a daemonhost or jokaero. It's not a great state of affairs.

I would like a updated version of the Wd list - allowing Power armour like half the convereted models they showed in the same magazine and other stuff the Inqusiiton has!

Be quite fun to have Strats and Guard regimental tactics to represent special favour/equipment/augmentation/ etc like the lore regiments - disposable or not

I think they should just be folded into GK/SoB/DW as HQ and elite options.

Grandmaster/Canoness could give re-rolls to hit, Inquisitor could give re-rolls to wound, for example.

I’d prefer that Ordo Hereticus was still kept separate from the SOB.

 Apple Peel wrote:
I’d prefer that Ordo Hereticus was still kept separate from the SOB.

Particular reason? I want them to be back together as witch hunters, because that's how it was when I started. Also, they're the church's gestapo and the militant arm of the ordo hereticus, so an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor should be calling upon them as troops. Also, a source of lieutenant re-rolls would be nice for both Sisters and GK.


I would say that on one hand, the GK, SoB, or DW could very likely be present without an Inquisitor. They could have been sent by somebody who didn't come with them, or because Inquisitors are more intelligence officers than warriors, the Inquisitor is on the ship or in an HQ. Or they could just be there on their own initiative. But an Inquisitor, especially like an Ordo Malleus one, taking the field, would theoretically want do so with at least a contingent of their order's specialists unless they were just to busy or the situation was too urgent, in which case a Vanguard of an Inquisitor and her acolytes would be in order.

More importantly, because they usually fight together and they're part of the same organization, they should have special synchronicity with each other as part of the same command structure. Folding them back in wouldn't force GK/SoB/DW to always have an Inquisitorial watcher, or an Inquisitor to have their chamber militant with them, but it would give them special synchronicity so that they work better together, as they should.


I think faction-HQ as the Captain and Inquisitor as the Lieutenant would be good. The Inquisitors are intelligence officers and command staff, but when they call in their order's specialists who train to fight the way they let the Grandmaster deal with the tactics while they focus on the strategic "here's the situation as my agents have determined, here's what we have to do to stop this incursion/flush out these heretics/disrupt these xenos"

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
I’d prefer that Ordo Hereticus was still kept separate from the SOB.

Particular reason? I want them to be back together as witch hunters, because that's how it was when I started. Also, they're the church's gestapo and the militant arm of the ordo hereticus, so an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor should be calling upon them as troops. Also, a source of lieutenant re-rolls would be nice for both Sisters and GK.

The Church’s gestapo, yes. I’d preferably see the Adepta Sororitas receive more/revamp Ecclesiarchy forces with priests, crusaders, and militia-type members.
Sure, Hereticus is the “witchhunters” Ordo. But that’s only really a part of their responsibilities as the internal investigators of the Imperium. I’d prefer that they keep lacking a chamber, really just being able to requisition any regular Imperial force like guard, stormtroopers, and standard marine chapters (or perhaps a slew of chapters that hold great ties to the Inquisition, like the Red Hunters). It also is neat that they don’t have a militant force since they are the youngest of the major Ordos.

There is also how the Deathwatch and Grey Knights aren’t subservient watchdogs of the Ordo Xenos and Ordo Malleus now. I prefer that kind of detached “we can call on you if it’s really important because you are hyper-elites whose time shouldn’t be wasted,” whereas sisters are just about everywhere, and are just regular humans in comparison.

 Apple Peel wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
I’d prefer that Ordo Hereticus was still kept separate from the SOB.

Particular reason? I want them to be back together as witch hunters, because that's how it was when I started. Also, they're the church's gestapo and the militant arm of the ordo hereticus, so an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor should be calling upon them as troops. Also, a source of lieutenant re-rolls would be nice for both Sisters and GK.

The Church’s gestapo, yes. I’d preferably see the Adepta Sororitas receive more/revamp Ecclesiarchy forces with priests, crusaders, and militia-type members.
Sure, Hereticus is the “witchhunters” Ordo. But that’s only really a part of their responsibilities as the internal investigators of the Imperium. I’d prefer that they keep lacking a chamber, really just being able to requisition any regular Imperial force like guard, stormtroopers, and standard marine chapters (or perhaps a slew of chapters that hold great ties to the Inquisition, like the Red Hunters). It also is neat that they don’t have a militant force since they are the youngest of the major Ordos.

There is also how the Deathwatch and Grey Knights aren’t subservient watchdogs of the Ordo Xenos and Ordo Malleus now. I prefer that kind of detached “we can call on you if it’s really important because you are hyper-elites whose time shouldn’t be wasted,” whereas sisters are just about everywhere, and are just regular humans in comparison.

The Ordo Hereticus don't lack a chamber. The Sisters are their chamber.

And the DW and Gk aren't independent [neither are the Sisters, really]. They all have the rosettes and Inquisitoral badges that mark them as part of the Inquisition, they're just have a lot of autonomy because A: there's a limited number of them and they're specially trained so if it's a problem that you can solve without them you should do so [which would be a kill team scale action or something with the Inquisitor and her acolytes], and B: they're trained to do the fighty part of the Ordo's task, and since the Inquisitor isn't a dedicated field officer or tactician they should defer to the people who are trained to do so.

The GK are definitely part of the Ordo Malleus. It says, page 7 in the GK codex: "Where other SM Chapters would be autonomous, the Grey Knights were fully embedded in the Inquisition and would serve as the chamber militant of that most secret of societies."

The deathwatch should be too, since they were created as well when the Inquisition divided it's duties during the War of the Beast and spun off the Ordo Xenos to take care of their stuff, with the Deathwatch being formed as their sort-of-Grey Knights.
The Ordo Hereticus in turn was formed in the Age of Apostasy in consequence to well, that to police the Imperial Cult, and naturally took the Sisters as their order.

The Sisters are more numerous and more independent than the Deathwatch, who are in turn more numerous and more independent than the Grey Knights, but they're still the chamber militants of their orders.



I think 2 things should be true: 1 Inquisitors should buff to their associated chamber if they're brought together, and 2 Inquisitors should not break their associated chamber's Tides of the Warp and Sacred Rites and Doctrines. That way, they can lead their armies.

A.T. wrote:
Inquisition are not an army unto themselves, therefore what they need to be more viaible is to be better able to join with another army.

Current inquisitiors cannot bring their retinue without breaking the mono-faction rules of their host army, which means nobody ever takes the henchmen.

I didn't think of it that way, but yes, this might solve the issue. Perhaps allow the Inquisitor to bring along up to 10 Henchmen. That will at least see more Acolytes used than currently.

I would still like to see a greater variety of Henchmen to show the eclectic hangers on that Inquisitors acquire, along with some rules on how to represent them as a unit.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I think they should just be folded into GK/SoB/DW as HQ and elite options.

I kind of want this too, though I can also see why GW moved away from this format. Putting Inquisitors and their retinues in each of the 3 Chambers Militant codices means a lot of duplication of units across different codices. The current solution is cleaner, though as highlighted it brings other problems, like most players using a lone Inquisitor with no retinue at all.

El Torro wrote:
...Putting Inquisitors and their retinues in each of the 3 Chambers Militant codices means a lot of duplication of units across different codices...

So how many Codexes have Rhinos these days?

I like the idea of the Inquisition being a powerful army at the ~1000pt max mark, which would work best when used as a detachment alongside another imperial army.

I have also this idea of confessed heretics with bomb-collars as a CC horde, running at the enemy to explode in repentant cleansing fire. That's the sort of darkness I expect of the Inquisition!

My first thought is to treat the inquisition sort of like the ynnari. Let them (and henchmen units) join any imperial detachment. That detachment loses its chapter tactic and doctrine equivalents. That detachment gains a chapter tactic based on the ordo of the inquisitor. Maybe let DW, GK, and Sisters detachments keep some of their shinies as a nod to the classically close connections between those factions and the relevant ordos.

So if you add an Ordo Xenos inquisitor to your White Scars army, you'd lose your WS chapter tactics and doctrines in general, but you'd gain some sort of anti-xenos chapter tactic (maybe the preferred enemy one from the custom chapter traits?), your inquisitor would have access to several Ordo Xenos warlord traits, and you'd unlock a few vaguely DW-ish stratagems that help against Xenos.

That same inquisitor to a DW detachment might not cost them their special rules but would still unlock the Ordo Xenos traits and strats.

Wyldhunt wrote:
My first thought is to treat the inquisition sort of like the ynnari. Let them (and henchmen units) join any imperial detachment. That detachment loses its chapter tactic and doctrine equivalents. That detachment gains a chapter tactic based on the ordo of the inquisitor. Maybe let DW, GK, and Sisters detachments keep some of their shinies as a nod to the classically close connections between those factions and the relevant ordos.

So if you add an Ordo Xenos inquisitor to your White Scars army, you'd lose your WS chapter tactics and doctrines in general, but you'd gain some sort of anti-xenos chapter tactic (maybe the preferred enemy one from the custom chapter traits?), your inquisitor would have access to several Ordo Xenos warlord traits, and you'd unlock a few vaguely DW-ish stratagems that help against Xenos.

That same inquisitor to a DW detachment might not cost them their special rules but would still unlock the Ordo Xenos traits and strats.

That's actually a cool way of doing it - so your other army is directly under the control of the Inquisition. cool traits but with the necessity and restrictions of taking the inquisition.

El Torro wrote:
When it comes to 40K Inquisitors have had a bit of a roller coaster ride over the years. Back in the day they were essentially there to lead a Grey Knight or SIsters of Battle force (Deathwatch didn't really exist then). Then in 6th edition they received a Codex, which while not overly inspiring did make me think that they would become more relevant in future. Now in 8th edition they basically are taggers on for an Imperium force.

Brave is a player who tries to make a 2,000 point Inquisition army today, with nothing but Inquisitors, Acolytes and Jokaero Weaponsmiths, plus transports.

So what can be done to make Inquisition armies more viable? Give them more units of course! My suggestion would be to remove them from other Codices and make them Inquisition only. For example:

HQ
Inquisitors as they are now, as either Ordo Malleus, Ordo Hereticus or Ordo Xenos

Troops
Inquisitorial Henchmen
Allow a squad of up to 10 models, made up of Acolytes, Jokaero Weaponsmiths, Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders. Maybe Servitors too. This is more or less what was allowed in the past, allowing for some interesting combos. For example a close combat squad made up of DCAs and Crusaders, with the Crusaders at the front.

Inquisitorial Storm Troopers
I'm not sure whether this is a good idea. Though they should be a staple of any Inquisitorial force I'm not sure how they would be significantly differentiated from the Militarum Tempestus options.

Elites
Ministorum Priests. Though I think they should just be a copy of what other Imperium forces can currently take, not exclusive to the Inquisition.

Fast Attack and Heavy Support
The existing Officio Assassinorum Assassins. Though there should also be a way to take them in an Imperium force without having to take an Inquisitor.

I'm sure there are other units that could be shoe horned into an Inquisitorial force, this is just a few thoughts off the top of my head.



So what do you think? How do we make Inquisitorial armies more useful? Do we even need to?

I guess one way to make them more relevant is that the Chambers Militant can only be deployed as part of an Inquisitorial army, led by the correct Ordo Inquisitor. I think this would be doing the Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights and Deathwatch a disservice though.

Lets look at it from a different way: Ordo Xenos, Hereticus, Malleus are each of the main denominations within the Inquisition. We can also give them Ordo Minoris for the lesser denominations. Lets give them a unique army they work with - and a special characteristic.

So Ordo Xenos
Space Marines - Minotaurs, Red Hunters, other Inquisition affiliated Space Marine Chapters.
They are unable to field Primaris units or Characters, just the following: Tactical Marines, Terminators, Dreadnoughts (regular), Rhinos, Razorbacks, Land Raiders, Bikes, Predators, Devastators, Whirlwinds.
They can benefit from an Inquisitorial doctrine, but not any Chapter specific doctrines.

Ordo Hereticus
Adepta Sororitas, Ministorum
They are unable to field Special units, but can field Sisters of Battle, Celestians, Seraphim, Rhinos, Immolators.
They can also field: Death Cult Assassins, Priests, Confessors, Crusaders, Missionaries.
They can benefit from an Inquisitorial doctrine, and some additional synergy stratagems.

Ordo Malleus
Grey Knights
They can field any Grey Knight units except Characters, Vehicles or Walkers.
They can benefit from some Inquisitorial doctrines and additional stratagems and psychic powers.

Ordo Minoris
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers
The Inquisitorial Stormtroopers are essentially Militarum Tempestus, without HotShot Volley Guns, Valkyrie rules, and their doctrines.
In exchange, due to their fanatical devotion to the Inquisition, they benefit from +1Ld, and a 6++. Their primary role is to act as elite foot soldiers for the Inquisitor.

2000pts could be doable, just less practical than anticipated...

 Slayer6 wrote:


Ordo Malleus
Grey Knights
They can field any Grey Knight units except Characters, Vehicles or Walkers.
They can benefit from some Inquisitorial doctrines and additional stratagems and psychic powers.

2000pts could be doable, just less practical than anticipated...

But why should you have a Grandmaster or an Inquisitor, not both? Grey Knights literally are the Ordo Malleus. I can entirely see the two of them on the field together: the Inquisitor does the intelligence gathering work and strategic planning and their men are the pathfinders, then the Grandmaster/Brother Captain show up and do the operational and tactical planning and lead the army.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Slayer6 wrote:


Ordo Malleus
Grey Knights
They can field any Grey Knight units except Characters, Vehicles or Walkers.
They can benefit from some Inquisitorial doctrines and additional stratagems and psychic powers.

2000pts could be doable, just less practical than anticipated...

But why should you have a Grandmaster or an Inquisitor, not both? Grey Knights literally are the Ordo Malleus. I can entirely see the two of them on the field together: the Inquisitor does the intelligence gathering work and strategic planning and their men are the pathfinders, then the Grandmaster/Brother Captain show up and do the operational and tactical planning and lead the army.

It’s to stop Imperial Soup. There is nothing preventing you from taking a seperate detachment of Grey Knights. This simply reflects the Inquisitor taking small forces of assets into an engagement they wish to personally oversee without the usual Grey Knights chain of command. To reflect that, certain units are omitted. Those units lose their usual doctrines and benefit from the Inquisitor’s doctrines. Much the same as an Ordo Minoris Inquisitor, they won’t have the Imperium Aeronautica units with their Stormtroopers, or their doctrines.

 Slayer6 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Slayer6 wrote:


Ordo Malleus
Grey Knights
They can field any Grey Knight units except Characters, Vehicles or Walkers.
They can benefit from some Inquisitorial doctrines and additional stratagems and psychic powers.

2000pts could be doable, just less practical than anticipated...

But why should you have a Grandmaster or an Inquisitor, not both? Grey Knights literally are the Ordo Malleus. I can entirely see the two of them on the field together: the Inquisitor does the intelligence gathering work and strategic planning and their men are the pathfinders, then the Grandmaster/Brother Captain show up and do the operational and tactical planning and lead the army.

It’s to stop Imperial Soup. There is nothing preventing you from taking a seperate detachment of Grey Knights. This simply reflects the Inquisitor taking small forces of assets into an engagement they wish to personally oversee without the usual Grey Knights chain of command. To reflect that, certain units are omitted. Those units lose their usual doctrines and benefit from the Inquisitor’s doctrines. Much the same as an Ordo Minoris Inquisitor, they won’t have the Imperium Aeronautica units with their Stormtroopers, or their doctrines.

But why not just give Ordo Malleus Inquisitors the GREY KNIGHT keyword? There's no reason that the Ordo Malleus Inquisitors should be separate from the Grey Knights, or taking an OM Inquisitor should restrict your access to Grey Knight units, because they're literally the same organization.

This is why I think that Inquisitors should be an HQ option for their appropriate armies and get that army's ability.
An OM Inquisitor might offer some bonus to friendly Grey Knights units within 6", and benefit from Tides of the Warp [and have Rites of Banishment, which isn't a buff].
An OX Inquisitor might offer some bonus to friendly Deathwatch units within 6", and benefit from Mission Tactics
An OH Inquisitor might offer some bonus to friendly Adepta Sororitas units within 6", and benefit from Sacred Rites

Acolyte options would be additional elite choices open to GK, DW, and SoB.

They can still be added to lead a Guard army or something by taking a vanguard with the Inquisitor and 3 Acolytes, but then they're just there because they're in charge and have their warlord trait and retinue or whatever.


I want to go back to being Daemonhunters and Witchhunters.

The simplest method is make an Inquisition codex supplement where all the unique units exist.

The Inquisition keyword can then be described as specifically being usable by an Imperium keyword army.

They aren't an army, but they do have some unique units and would have unique strategems etc. So using the supplement layout would be the simplest way to represent them.

Seems to me you could make a sort of middle groudn where the inquisitor an army gets can bring in his own elites, much the way that a ministerium priest can bring in his own crusaders.

so you get to have 1 inquisitor in an army of (imperials) but he can bring up to 3 of his own inquisition flavored elites without them counting against the numbers in a detachment, and each inquisitor can of course requisition a transport, any transport. This wouldn't break the whatever of the army he was tagged along on.

You could thus end up with an all sisters of battle army, but have tucked away an inquisitor, one of his wierdo monkeys that gives buffs, 10 guys with guns, and a valkyrie. Someone else might go whole hog and bring inquisitor, 3 x 10 inquisitor retinue guys, and a stormlord, why not? Its what he requisitioned. In the middle of a sisters army, just driving along....

could be cool?