Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With 9th, we are getting a slew of new units for Primaris marines..

Captain, Ancient, and Lt will probably just have options added to existing choices in single data slate
Judiciar
Assault Intercessors
Bladeguard Veterans
Eradicators
Outriders
Invader ATV
Firestrike turret
Landspeeder seen in other pictures

Now add that to existing options for marines, the codex is just going to get ridiculously out of control. At what point does GW branch off primaris into it's own dex and leave the old marines to current dex (before legends)?
I do understand that the Primaris line still has significant gaps and so you can't remove it just yet, but the choices are certainly getting out of hand.

Split the Codex, slowly drop support for Primaris. Rescale classic marines with new kits to CSM size.

Consolidation of unit entries would solve this problem really easy. Centurions do not need to be in two separate profiles. Terminators don't need 4. We don't need 9+ different Captains.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Split the Codex, slowly drop support for Primaris. Rescale classic marines with new kits to CSM size.

Except Primaris look objectively better than the rescaled stuff. Also the statline makes more sense.

Primaris stats do not make sense, a bolter should be able to knock one out of action on one hit.

 bullyboy wrote:
With 9th, we are getting a slew of new units for Primaris marines..

Captain, Ancient, and Lt will probably just have options added to existing choices in single data slate
Judiciar
Assault Intercessors
Bladeguard Veterans
Eradicators
Outriders
Invader ATV
Firestrike turret
Landspeeder seen in other pictures

Now add that to existing options for marines, the codex is just going to get ridiculously out of control. At what point does GW branch off primaris into it's own dex and leave the old marines to current dex (before legends)?
I do understand that the Primaris line still has significant gaps and so you can't remove it just yet, but the choices are certainly getting out of hand.

Marine range has been bloated for years - they may do it in two books now as its buly becomes every more excessive.

Plus bound to be new Marine stuff to come plus all the Wolves and Angels minor variations.

As others have said they could consolodate loads of standard unit entries which are really just weapon options - the new interscesors for instance should just be a weapon swap but we know thats not going to eb the case

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
... objectively better...

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

 bullyboy wrote:
With 9th, we are getting a slew of new units for Primaris marines..

Captain, Ancient, and Lt will probably just have options added to existing choices in single data slate
Judiciar
Assault Intercessors
Bladeguard Veterans
Eradicators
Outriders
Invader ATV
Firestrike turret
Landspeeder seen in other pictures

Now add that to existing options for marines, the codex is just going to get ridiculously out of control. At what point does GW branch off primaris into it's own dex and leave the old marines to current dex (before legends)?
I do understand that the Primaris line still has significant gaps and so you can't remove it just yet, but the choices are certainly getting out of hand.

We should know in a couple weeks if the old Micro Marines get moved to Legends with the 9th ed. launch. It would help explain the need for a new Marine Codex so soon after the last one.

They definitely should just Legend the minimarines, but I doubt they'll do it yet. It will only happen in tenth edition, I'll predict. By then most players have fully adopted the Primaris.

I don't think Firstborn are going to legends this Editon, but I bet all of their stuff will go direct only and stores will stop stocking it. Probably will go to legends during the edition after next.

While I don't think it'll happen, the 9th dex could just be Primaris stuff and leave the old SM stuff to 8th dex.

Loyalists have way too many units. This is one of the reasons they are so hard to balance against other factions. With that many options it's hard not to have an answer to every question. I mean, three different types of contemptor? Why?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Split the Codex, slowly drop support for Primaris. Rescale classic marines with new kits to CSM size.

Except Primaris look objectively better than the rescaled stuff. Also the statline makes more sense.

I think you mean subjectively. Also: have you been to the eye doctor lately?

 Insectum7 wrote:
Primaris stats do not make sense, a bolter should be able to knock one out of action on one hit.

You mean the Bolt shots that can't even pierce Infantry armor or even Gaunt chitin now?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Primaris stats do not make sense, a bolter should be able to knock one out of action on one hit.

You mean the Bolt shots that can't even pierce Infantry armor or even Gaunt chitin now?

The same round that can kill an Ork, Genestealer, CSM and Necron Immortal in one hit, yes.

It will be interesting to see if the outriders and assault primaris replace their predecessors as they're the first Primaris units that can serve as a direct replacement of existing Marine units.
That way we can see what GW is up to. Old Marines might never go to legends because they're simply replaced by newer models - just like every other faction.

Uh, so Intercessors weren't "direct replacements" of Tactical Marines now? Interesting!

Outriders and Assault Intercessors are both named in such a way that it's unlikely they are meant to be 'replacing' the existing units.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Uh, so Intercessors weren't "direct replacements" of Tactical Marines now? Interesting!

Outriders and Assault Intercessors are both named in such a way that it's unlikely they are meant to be 'replacing' the existing units.

They might be pretty close, but they lack heavy weapons.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Uh, so Intercessors weren't "direct replacements" of Tactical Marines now? Interesting!

Outriders and Assault Intercessors are both named in such a way that it's unlikely they are meant to be 'replacing' the existing units.

They might be pretty close, but they lack heavy weapons.

Very questionable that that is what makes a Tactical Squad into a Tactical Squad. Whichever way you slice it, most of the firepower in a Tactical Squad were riflemen with bolters. I would absolutely consider an Intercessor Squad their Primaris equivalent. With higher range and higher AP baked into their gun on top of the doctrines, they basically don't need a special or heavy anyway.

Consolidation of data slates would indeed be a very good start, but still not enough. I honestly think if they are doing a 9th marine dex, then now is the time to split. Maybe wait for 6 months, add new kits (suppressors, land speeder, plus a few others) and make it happen.
I just wish that the Primaris line was better looking than what came before it, unfortunately for me, it's not.

Land raider > repulsor
Rhino/razorback > impulsor
basic primaris marine/hellblaster > tacs/devs
eliminators > scout snipers (not exactly a direct comparison in reality, but close)
terminators > aggressors > centurions (I know terminators don't really have a primaris full on equivalent yet, but again...close)
Primaris bikes = old bikes
Attack bike/land speeder > invader ATV (I know many don't like attack bike, but I still find it better looking than tonka ATV)
Inceptors/suppressors don't have a marine equivalent, but they look goofy as hell for me. The flying stands don't help. Vanvets look so much better. Give me assault primaris (like shrike) and I'm all in.
Dreads = redemptors (I'm ambivalent there)
Phobos > scouts

yeah, I guess in reality for me it's the vehicles. A big swing and a miss for primaris vehicles so far compared to old marines. I can get on board with the infantry so far, but the so called replacements for land raiders, predators, razorbacks are simply aesthetically awful, and for the most part need rules support to sell them because they ain't winning beauty shows (of course this is subjective, but I know I'm not alone here).

 bullyboy wrote:
Consolidation of data slates would indeed be a very good start, but still not enough. I honestly think if they are doing a 9th marine dex, then now is the time to split. Maybe wait for 6 months, add new kits (suppressors, land speeder, plus a few others) and make it happen.
I just wish that the Primaris line was better looking than what came before it, unfortunately for me, it's not.

Land raider > repulsor
Rhino/razorback > impulsor
basic primaris marine/hellblaster > tacs/devs
eliminators > scout snipers (not exactly a direct comparison in reality, but close)
terminators > aggressors > centurions (I know terminators don't really have a primaris full on equivalent yet, but again...close)
Primaris bikes = old bikes
Attack bike/land speeder > invader ATV (I know many don't like attack bike, but I still find it better looking than tonka ATV)
Inceptors/suppressors don't have a marine equivalent, but they look goofy as hell for me. The flying stands don't help. Vanvets look so much better. Give me assault primaris (like shrike) and I'm all in.
Dreads = redemptors (I'm ambivalent there)
Phobos > scouts

yeah, I guess in reality for me it's the vehicles. A big swing and a miss for primaris vehicles so far compared to old marines. I can get on board with the infantry so far, but the so called replacements for land raiders, predators, razorbacks are simply aesthetically awful, and for the most part need rules support to sell them because they ain't winning beauty shows (of course this is subjective, but I know I'm not alone here).

Marines should have far fewer vehicles. They fight at the battalion level if they are lucky. Battalions are not this heavily customized. They'd have one APC, one MBT, etc. But instead, marines have like 13 types of dreads alone.

I'm not a marine player, but I would really mourn the loss of Land Raiders.

Repulsors, and particularly Impulsors, look at somebody's first attempmpt at a 'really super cool' kitbash.

I would mourn them more if they were ever good.

You can ditch all the Old Marines as long as we keep Scouts.

I like having a fluffy team of Noobs.

They're starting to push away from the Cawls Surprise Unnumbered Sons, so new recruits have to come from somewhere right?

Or are all the 1st foundings just gonna stop taking recruits from their homeworlds?

Please GW, dont write yourselves into a corner with this.

Scouts make the least sense of most marine units though. They should be the first to go. Trainees should be devastators.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
You can ditch all the Old Marines as long as we keep Scouts.

I like having a fluffy team of Noobs.

They're starting to push away from the Cawls Surprise Unnumbered Sons, so new recruits have to come from somewhere right?

Or are all the 1st foundings just gonna stop taking recruits from their homeworlds?

Please GW, dont write yourselves into a corner with this.

It has been established that new primaris marines go through the scout process as normal. I just wish there was option to upgrade the scout sergeant to have primaris statline, as sergeants are supposed to be full marines. New scout models wouldn't hurt either.

Too bad. Scouts make no sense at all.

Martel732 wrote:
Too bad. Scouts make no sense at all.

Well, I think they make more sense now that there are also full marines that can infiltrate with them. I think Black Templars actually had the right idea: have the neophytes to fight alongside the full marines instead of sending them on a suicide mission by themselves.

And just completely omit the 10th companies function?

Vanguard marines arent Neophytes. I wouldn't put it past writers to just restructure the Companies, but currently any Marine can wear Phobos armor, and the 10th company keeps 100 Vanguard for deployment as needed.

If anything, the Scouts are more structured for Primaris than Space Marines are. We have Sniper Scouts, CC scouts, and bolter scouts, all to be later moved into Reserve Companies when they receive their proper Power Armor.

The only way old marines stay in recruitment is if they stress the idea that becoming Primaris is DANGEROUS. But so far everyone survives the Rubikon.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
And just completely omit the 10th companies function?

The only way old marines stay in recruitment is if they stress the idea that becoming Primaris is DANGEROUS. But so far everyone survives the Rubikon.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Split the Codex, slowly drop support for Primaris. Rescale classic marines with new kits to CSM size.

Do the opposite of this because the primaris stuff looks better and all oldmarine vehicles look like shoeboxes people glued guns to.

 Crimson wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Too bad. Scouts make no sense at all.

Well, I think they make more sense now that there are also full marines that can infiltrate with them. I think Black Templars actually had the right idea: have the neophytes to fight alongside the full marines instead of sending them on a suicide mission by themselves.

I agree with both of those statements.

 Crimson wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Too bad. Scouts make no sense at all.

Well, I think they make more sense now that there are also full marines that can infiltrate with them. I think Black Templars actually had the right idea: have the neophytes to fight alongside the full marines instead of sending them on a suicide mission by themselves.

This is basically what the 10 Company Vanguard do now.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's hard to say what will be shifted to Legends.

Any non plastic kit should get Axed.