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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Everyone should watch the stream from today, because the thought process presented by Stu is just perfect.

Not everyone can overwatch all the time! It is now a stratagem. No more rolling dice just because. That also means overwatch ONCE per turn.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






The new OW is amazing honestly and its rules like this that will make 9th a better game.

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/17 15:08:52


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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Oh, also - defensible terrain gives O/W on 5s or +1 to hit in the next fight phase.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Fantastic change. Removes unnecessary rolling and in an igougo system, is simply more logical. It was always punitive to charging units, with no equivalent punishment. Very happy.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Umbros wrote:

Fantastic change. Removes unnecessary rolling and in an igougo system, is simply more logical. It was always punitive to charging units, with no equivalent punishment. Very happy.


Waiting for conspiracy theorists to come in and tell us how this is a strategy to sell less or more of some unit.

   
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/17/overwatch-overhaulgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-2/

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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

This is excellent. Buffs melee units, cuts down on pointless rolling, and makes terrain more meaningful. I like it.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





This also means if I charge with trash, you opt to not O/W, and I make it in then you can't O/W against my next charger.

   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Umbros wrote:

Fantastic change. Removes unnecessary rolling and in an igougo system, is simply more logical. It was always punitive to charging units, with no equivalent punishment. Very happy.


Waiting for conspiracy theorists to come in and tell us how this is a strategy to sell less or more of some unit.


I mean, they are a model selling company, technically everything they do is a strategy to sell models.

Regardless, this is unequivocally good. Their reasoning was sound.

Overwatch was either:

1) Pointless. You fire 30 slugga shots into a knight, which usually does nothing, but there's no reason to NOT do it on the off chance it does. Wastes everyone's time.
2) Overly consequential. With stacking overwatch buffs, it made assaulting difficult to pointless. (Iron Hands example: 5+ Overwatch with re-rolling all hits is basically a free round of shooting at BS4).

They will probably help armies like Tau by giving them a few units with innate overwatch, as they said on the stream.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/17 15:18:03


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Overwatch wasn't a problem to begin with and now several sub factions need to be fixed because they're just a bonus to Overwatch and that's it.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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tulun wrote:

They will probably help armies like Tau by giving them a few units with innate overwatch, as they said on the stream.


T'au still get the linked overwatch. This makes the T'au Sept a lot less special so they might feel more inclined to move away from it.

I mean, they are a model selling company, technically everything they do is a strategy to sell models.


Yes - a feat accomplished without bending rules though. There are lovely people who have been clamoring on and on about GW not wanting to sell horde models and screwing over melee to sell other models. I look forward to the mental acrobatics to rationalize the next jump.

   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut





Only generic unit overwatch will go to 1 unit per turn. They also said that overwatch can now also come via a keyword in a units datasheet. Tau was mentioned as an example faction which will have some units with the OVERWATCH keyword.

That defensible terrain is a significant change. Making overwatch hit on a 5+ will be a great buff for Tau, and getting +1 to hit in CC will be huge for anyone with a lot of attacks.
   
Made in us
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Overwatch wasn't a problem to begin with and now several sub factions need to be fixed because they're just a bonus to Overwatch and that's it.


Sure it was. You ever try charging Centurions? And as mentioned above have you ever waited for someone to overwatch with garbage guns just to get a lucky wound?

   
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Between the sacred silence and sleep.

I've only just bought a Vexator Mask!....Damn you GW!

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tauist wrote:
Tau was mentioned as an example faction which will have some units with the OVERWATCH keyword.


'Cool Headed' was the rule. Mentioned mostly as a campaign bonus, but we'll see units with it. If they give that to all marines then I'll turn myself in.

   
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 Daedalus81 wrote:

T'au still get the linked overwatch. This makes the T'au Sept a lot less special so they might feel more inclined to move away from it.


There is zero point in playing Tau sept unless you want Shadownsun's double Kauyon now. Turning their sept ability into a once-per turn CP fuelled ability makes it instantly trash.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Overwatch wasn't a problem to begin with and now several sub factions need to be fixed because they're just a bonus to Overwatch and that's it.


Sure it was. You ever try charging Centurions? And as mentioned above have you ever waited for someone to overwatch with garbage guns just to get a lucky wound?

People keep mentioning "whatabout Centurions and Aggressors", but that's literally two units. Losing it about a rule because of two units PROBABLY means there's more going on to those two units. You know what would've helped? You can't reroll Overwatch shots. How elegant a solution.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
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Yeah, I'm all in favour. Melee gets such a shot in the arm from this, and makes those rare moments of Overwatch all the more impactful because you chose to take that chance, or that unit is explicitly *designed* to have that support function.

I'd quite like if flamer-like weapons still got to do Overwatch, even with the changes, but that might be too much.

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Never liked overwatch, it adds something for shooting unit in a game in which shooting is already king. It also slows down the game, since it's more unneeded dice rolling.


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Made in fi
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
tauist wrote:
Tau was mentioned as an example faction which will have some units with the OVERWATCH keyword.


'Cool Headed' was the rule. Mentioned mostly as a campaign bonus, but we'll see units with it. If they give that to all marines then I'll turn myself in.


I doubt many marine units will have it. Marines live for close combat, do they not? LOL been watching alot of that Emperor text to speech TV show on the tubes lately

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/17 15:29:53


 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




I like it, I just hope they fix the rules a bit for factions/subfactions that are built around overwatch (Mordians immediately come to mind). Having your special faction rule be "overwatch on a 5+" now a 1/turn thing that costs CP kind of sucks. Still, fix up the few groups that have this issue and it should be fine.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





Extremely good change. Finally, a preview for something that actually contributes to fixing problems with 8th.

Unfortunate that the last terrain rule that seemed like it could provide a good defensive benefit for cheaper units appears to be, strangely, an offensive buff. But it makes sense that there be some kind of anti-melee benefit to terrain as hard cover is bizarrely more of a benefit for the charger than the chargee.

I'm curious as to the rumor about Fall Back as well - rumor has it that there is a stratagem that makes Fall Back ignore tripoint by just allowing you to move thru models in engagement range of you. But I wonder if that's what Fall Back in general is - just a stratagem now. That would most certainly make the hefty price hikes on chaff units and the vehicles/monsters shooting while in combat rule make more sense, if getting in combat meant you are most likely stuck in combat now unless you spend a CP to make 1 unit fall back.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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Executing Exarch






this is biiiig.

Even with blast rules I think this justifies taking chaff horde of some description.

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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
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 harlokin wrote:
I've only just bought a Vexator Mask!....Damn you GW!


that's not the reason you bring one it's just a bonus
   
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Aachen

tauist wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
tauist wrote:
Tau was mentioned as an example faction which will have some units with the OVERWATCH keyword.


'Cool Headed' was the rule. Mentioned mostly as a campaign bonus, but we'll see units with it. If they give that to all marines then I'll turn myself in.


I doubt many marine units will have it. Marines live for close combat, do they not? LOL been watching alot of that Emperor text to speech TV show on the tubes lately


It's a Crusade "battle trait", so it's not like an USR that some units have on their datasheet.
   
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Daedalus81 wrote:
tauist wrote:
Tau was mentioned as an example faction which will have some units with the OVERWATCH keyword.


'Cool Headed' was the rule. Mentioned mostly as a campaign bonus, but we'll see units with it. If they give that to all marines then I'll turn myself in.

If they do it won't be all marines. It sounds like something they'd tack on to atsknf. Hopefully they won't.
   
Made in us
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Annandale, VA

Now if Fall Back is also revealed to be a stratagem, I'll say the biggest problems with melee have been fixed.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Overwatch wasn't a problem to begin with and now several sub factions need to be fixed because they're just a bonus to Overwatch and that's it.


I'm sympathetic to subfactions and abilities that will now need to be rebalanced, but it was a problem and the game is better for restricting it.

It was a mechanic that 90% of the time just wasted time with ineffective rolling, and in the remaining 10% caused unexpected (significant) results that needlessly penalized the player already facing an uphill battle of getting into melee.

Making it a more situational ability with an actual cost will still keep it occasionally relevant (mostly when stacked with buffs to OW), but will drastically cut down the amount of mindless dice-rolling.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





So, I just noticed from the Aircraft rule...

....Aircraft no longer NEED to fall back.

Aircraft can now make a normal move if they start within engagement range.

That was the biggest thing standing between them and Fall Back being a strat - if it were once per turn, aircraft would be put into the position of insta-dying because they cant fall back sometimes.

interesting...and vehicles and monsters can now shoot in close combat.

Fall back being made a stratagem that explicitly ignores Tripointing would be kind of an interesting idea, particularly if Falling Back also no longer prevented you from shooting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/17 15:54:03


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Overwatch was not a major issue for melee in 8th. There were so many ways to avoid, either directly, through soakers like repulsors, or through terrain manipulation.

The much bigger issue with melee in 8th was falling back. If the rumors that there will be ways to fall back even when wrapped turn out to be true, that will amount to a far larger nerf to melee than this is a buff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/17 15:59:07


 
   
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Ute nation

This and cut them down seem to be GW giving melee a soft landing after loosing three cornering.

Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
 
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