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A battle forged army is an army where every unit is in a detachment, has CP to spend on stratagems, and receives 1CP in the command phase. When you summon a unit you pay from your pool of reinforcement points, and that unit is not part of a detachment. Are you no longer battle forged ? No more CP in the command phase, and no more CP to spend on stratagems ?

Still battle forged.

The Battle forged army rules are referencing list building.

+1 to what DeathReaper said. Battle Forged applies to the list you build. Units you bring in with reinforcement points are not a part of your list.

seems like you really have to smash a captain to lose the battleforged status from summoning...

I can see how you could argue for either interpretation, except in this case it is very clearly that losing your battleforged status due to summoning is not RAI.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Still battle forged.

The Battle forged army rules are referencing list building.

Do you have a citation for that ?

You gain detachment abilities by being battle forged, yes?

If that premise is true, then the line "... but they will never benefit from any Detachment abilities." gives you the answer because if their presence stopped you from using Detachment abilities for the whole army, why would they need to stipulate the above quote?

I can't find it right now, but there is a section in the rules about reinforcement points that clearly explains that new units created with them do not make an army not Battle Forged.

 Bilge Rat wrote:
I can see how you could argue for either interpretation, except in this case it is very clearly that losing your battleforged status due to summoning is not RAI.

Well, if adding a non-detachment unit would make the army no longer battleforged during a game, by that same metric if you have units killed off (say, an HQ) that drops your detachment below the minimum number of required units for that detachment, suddenly it's no longer a battle forged detachment and would also screw up the army for getting cp's each turn. Another indication, at least from RAI, that they meant it for only the list building stage.

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Still battle forged.

The Battle forged army rules are referencing list building.

Do you have a citation for that ?

Yes, The context of the rule. They are talking about list building.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Still battle forged.

The Battle forged army rules are referencing list building.

Do you have a citation for that ?

Yes, The context of the rule. They are talking about list building.

Thats not a citation.

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Still battle forged.

The Battle forged army rules are referencing list building.

Do you have a citation for that ?

Yes, The context of the rule. They are talking about list building.

Thats not a citation.

Perhaps when they actually release the core rulebook, where presumably all this is located, people will have plenty of citations for you. Until then, asking for a citation from something that hasn't been released doesn't seem a reasonable position for you to take.

 doctortom wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Still battle forged.

The Battle forged army rules are referencing list building.

Do you have a citation for that ?

Yes, The context of the rule. They are talking about list building.

Thats not a citation.

Perhaps when they actually release the core rulebook, where presumably all this is located, people will have plenty of citations for you. Until then, asking for a citation from something that hasn't been released doesn't seem a reasonable position for you to take.

It's fine to say "I don't have a citation yet." But you can't just say "Context" and have that work.

For what it's worth, it's certainly RAI that summoning doesn't break Battleforged, and I doubt anyone would play it that way, outside maybe BCB if the rules aren't worded right. I do not have a citation for this, but it makes sense to me.

I believe there was a space in the leaked rules that detailed units added to your army after the game begins:

1) are not in a detachment
2) do not nullify any sort of faction bonuses/traits

I'd have to re-read it all, but it would also go to reason that they do not receive any perks for their faction alignment since they are not in a detachment that benefits from said bonuses.

May want to look in the section that outlines adding units to your army after the game begins (reinforcements/summoning I think?).

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Still battle forged.
The Battle forged army rules are referencing list building.

Do you have a citation for that ?

Yes, The context of the rule. They are talking about list building.

Thats not a citation.

You literally quoted the rule. So refer back to that for your citation.

 JNAProductions wrote:
It's fine to say "I don't have a citation yet." But you can't just say "Context" and have that work.

Except it does when the rule was posted in the OP.

Where in the rule does it talk about list-building?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Where in the rule does it talk about list-building?

On that same page. It is right above the section posted.

It talks about mustering a Battle Forged Army.

(But even without the section I posted here, you can not ignore the context of what a "Battle-forged army" is. Which is at list building (or mustering as they say in the book).

That still doesn't mention list building.

I don't disagree with your conclusion, DeathReaper, but your methods.

OP, based on that logic, if a unit in one of your detachments, lets say a Company Commander in a Patrol detachment, is killed, does that suddenly mean that the Patrol detachment is incomplete? That this sudden change in status means that your army loses its' Battle-Forged ratio, until the entire Patrol is wiped out, thus returning you to full Detachments in your remaining forces?

No. It does not.

Battle-Forged uses the phrase: "An army organised so all its units are in Detachments". This is prior to any deployment. The army now benefits from being Battle-Forged. This isn't World of Tanks, where losing one crewman means that you lose the Brothers In Arms buff.

I'm confused. The rule literally states you can add a unit during play to a Battleforged Army. How can that make the army not battleforged?

 alextroy wrote:
I'm confused. The rule literally states you can add a unit during play to a Battleforged Army. How can that make the army not battleforged?

Spoiler:

Because you have a unit that's not part of a detachment.

For what it's worth, I definitely agree that you'd still be Battleforged, but I can see the RAW argument against it.

 JNAProductions wrote:
That still doesn't mention list building.

I don't disagree with your conclusion, DeathReaper, but your methods.

It does, by mentioning muster your army...

Mustering your army is doing what? List building.

You muster an army from the minatures in your collection. That is list building.

 Slayer6 wrote:
OP, based on that logic, if a unit in one of your detachments, lets say a Company Commander in a Patrol detachment, is killed, does that suddenly mean that the Patrol detachment is incomplete? That this sudden change in status means that your army loses its' Battle-Forged ratio, until the entire Patrol is wiped out, thus returning you to full Detachments in your remaining forces?

Good point. The rules dont mention that situation, so i think battle forged doesnt matter anymore once the game has started.