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So with the new rule book core stratagem where you can give an ability similar to deep strike / outflank. What armies and units in particular do you think will become a new OP unit using it in 9th?

As a Nid player i really want to get some ideas to try out so would love your feedback.

Also, we have a new YouTube channel called Planet 40k. Big ask looking for people to take 10 mins to check out our latest video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcb4bB8XHh8

Would really appreciate any likes or subs to get us rolling and we look to improve as time goes on. Should be going over the rest of the rules later this week and also be previewing some of the Indomitus box set units as we edge closer to the full release.

Thanks

That's a tough question and is probably going to vary from person to person depending on what purpose their units have.

I've loved walking War Walkers with Shuriken Cannons onto the side of the field to threaten softer units with a low-cost unit. So that'll probably continue to be something I do.

I think 9th is going to be played more on the middle of the table, though. So deploying turn 2 on the edges is going to be a fringe case. You're basically conceding potential control over the most important part of the game.

Though, my friend and I talked about with how turn 1 is getting determined now... and deep strikers/out flankers getting reserved WAY before anyone has any clue of who is going first or what the table is going to look like... he may want to reserve his high value strike units that can support the table from the sides without having to waste a lot of time moving. This was specifically related to if Eradicators were good for reserves or deploying on the table.

I'm thinking Dreadnoughts with Twin Las and Missile Launcher will be good for reserved fire support. Possibly Razorbacks with troops to grab objectives for mission purposes. Ideally I'd like to support Drop Pods and Terminators with my reserves and put together a flexible offensive.

It's mainly going to be for stuff that you just don't want getting alpha striked. Mortarion is an obvious shout. By turn 2, you've probably removed enough firepower that he's sticking around for the rest of the game.

Watching that Tabletop Tactics game, you saw

IanVanCheese wrote:
It's mainly going to be for stuff that you just don't want getting alpha striked. Mortarion is an obvious shout. By turn 2, you've probably removed enough firepower that he's sticking around for the rest of the game.

Watching that Tabletop Tactics game, you saw

Spoiler:

how easy it is to misplay with that strat, and how badly it can go for you. Chef kept his destroyers in reserve, but all it meant was that he missed out on their firepower for two turns and when they did come in it was in his deployment zone anyway. You can use Obscuring terrain to protect your important stuff early game now.

More than protecting from alpha strikes is using reserves to work against their secondaries.

They went "Kill More"? Hide the squishy stuff for a couple turns.

I figure I might try Spawn in reserves. Pushing them up was always hard and they didn't do anything in the process. If I can make a hole in the enemy deployment they'd be a great unit to hide and use to score secondaries as well.

Depending on the game size and its price, IG deathstrikes might be very attractive. In 8th it was a little trick only tallarn could pull of, nie every regiment can do it and you can keep them until turn 5 increasing their chance to fire before being shot at. Nothing for every game, but could be funny

Long-ranged but squishy firepower that you want to be sure gets a turn of shooting before it gets blown up. That's about it, really. The move to a 5T game makes it very difficult to use strategic reserves effectively to take and hold objectives - on something like 5/6 of the missions you can't get your stuff onto an objective from reserves until T3, meaning it'll only help you hold for T4 and T5 - i.e. putting something in reserves reduces by 50% the amount of time it can contribute to holding anything.

Shooting units.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Depending on the game size and its price, IG deathstrikes might be very attractive. In 8th it was a little trick only tallarn could pull of, nie every regiment can do it and you can keep them until turn 5 increasing their chance to fire before being shot at. Nothing for every game, but could be funny

It's a funny idea but I suspect you'll still not want to wait too long to get your points on the table. Playing the first few turns leaving a couple hundred points off the table could easily put you in a bad spot. I suspect turn 2 will be heavy on the reserves, and turn 3 pretty light, with basically nothing after that.

What's sorta interesting is that the opponent can bring on models nearly point blank against any reserves that you've set up on the sides of the table. A lot of mayhem could happen there.

Many times it depends on your opponent's list.

For example, if I have a 30 hormagaunt squad and the opponent has a Wyvern, I'm probably not going to deploy them.

I will deploy them in my deploy area in turn 2, the same turn where a Lictor is coming out from deep strike onto that wyvern, leaving my hormagaunts free to join the middle meatgrinder for turn 3-4 and 5.

@ Insectum: it depends a bit on how expensive Deathstrikes will be in 9th. As they have to roll a D6 + # of battleround to fire (only firing on 8+), bringing them in round 3/4/5 gives them a Chance to fire the round they arrive (before dropping their BS due to damage) of 33%/50%/67%. And since as far as I understand you cannot command reroll that D6 anymore it is even more important to - if you really want to bring a Deathstrike - not have it on the table the first two rounds. Unless of course it is a distraction carnifex in the first place.

If they stay at 150 points or below I would try it out. Especially as placing a Deathstrike in strategic reserve and putting on the side visible for the other player might (!) get him thinking if he really wants to castle up, as in each and every turn, I could bring the big Missile from reserves and might have a go at shooting it - the later the better. And even in the last turn, a DS missile might manage to score some decicive VP depending on secondaries

I plan on putting some Scarabs to counter-charge any enemy crossing into my deploy zone.

Another thing I'm at least considering (but it is definitly not optimized) are wyrdvane psykers. With the new stratagem from psychic awakening giving them and a nearby Primaris Psyker +2 to their psychic test and another power to cast as well as better terrain rules. And they are only 1 PL/3 dudes, so if you are already putting something into deepstrike and just have 1-3 PL points open to fill it, they can squeeze in there.

As non characters with T3 6+ they fall down very quickly but comming from deepstrike... like... maybe?

Sounds like Creed gets to Outflank a Shadowsword\Baneblade again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it something that has to be accounted for in listbuilding, or is it something that can be done at deployment? If it can be done at deployment, and we deploy longways, my CC Despoiler Warlord says Hi!

 carldooley wrote:
Sounds like Creed gets to Outflank a Shadowsword\Baneblade again.

Maybe? I don't have a baneblade chassis tank to measure, but I know that my fellblade won't fit within 6 of a table edge sideways because of the quad lasscannon sponsons. It's possible a baneblade could fit without sponsons, though that would cut down on its potential.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
Sounds like Creed gets to Outflank a Shadowsword\Baneblade again.

Maybe? I don't have a baneblade chassis tank to measure, but I know that my fellblade won't fit within 6 of a table edge sideways because of the quad lasscannon sponsons. It's possible a baneblade could fit without sponsons, though that would cut down on its potential.

They've fixed the size thing to say: if the model is too big to fit fully within 6" of the table edge, then simply place it so it is touching the table edge. That way Baneblades with sponsons can deploy via the outflank.

Here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/206556.page#:~:text=Length%3A%2022cm%20from%20the%20rear%20tracks%20to%20the,a%20further%201.5cm%20for%20the%20main%20gun%20mount.
it was stated that a Baneblade is 14 cm (5.5 '') wide without sponsons and 18 cm (7.1'') with sponsons.
So it should work at least without them. Note that as you can still use "normal" ways to deepstrike the Tallarn Ambush (3CP) lets you deepstrike up to three units (only one vehicle) within 7'' of a battlefield edge. So it might (!) be worth to measure if it is really 7.1 or 7.0''.

Or make it gamey as there is no mention that the sponsons have to be on separate sides... so technically you can take two and put both on one side.

Some people have been excited about bringing Mortarion or Magnus on a bit later in the game, to avoid them getting blitzed off of the board before they can even protect themselves.

Purifying Tempest wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
Sounds like Creed gets to Outflank a Shadowsword\Baneblade again.

Maybe? I don't have a baneblade chassis tank to measure, but I know that my fellblade won't fit within 6 of a table edge sideways because of the quad lasscannon sponsons. It's possible a baneblade could fit without sponsons, though that would cut down on its potential.

They've fixed the size thing to say: if the model is too big to fit fully within 6" of the table edge, then simply place it so it is touching the table edge. That way Baneblades with sponsons can deploy via the outflank.

When did they do that? I missed it.

They sorta did. If the unit won't fit, they have to be deployed touching the board edge and basically can't do anything that turn, except make close combat attacks.

 alextroy wrote:
They sorta did. If the unit won't fit, they have to be deployed touching the board edge and basically can't do anything that turn, except make close combat attacks.

So we're back to no sponsons on baneblades because not shooting = not doing its job.

I'll need to do some figuring, but Sisters have a few good glass-cannon units that might be fun to keep in reserves. Not being able to re-roll explodes makes it riskier to keep everyone bunched up, and cost increases may make it tougher to fit transports in anyway.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
They sorta did. If the unit won't fit, they have to be deployed touching the board edge and basically can't do anything that turn, except make close combat attacks.

So we're back to no sponsons on baneblades because not shooting = not doing its job.

can you only pay for 2 sponsons? Kinda gamey, but only mount them on one side.

 Insectum7 wrote:
I'm thinking Dreadnoughts with Twin Las and Missile Launcher will be good for reserved fire support. Possibly Razorbacks with troops to grab objectives for mission purposes. Ideally I'd like to support Drop Pods and Terminators with my reserves and put together a flexible offensive.

Nothing inside a transport is super likely to be useful on outflank because it comes in and just sits their for a turn because you can't disembark(except impulsors I believe). Long rang weapons are wasted on outflank as well, ideally you'd have shorter range stuff so instead of las/miss dread eradicators would be the ideal thing to bring in from outflank.

For sisters of battle, you could do units inside of a repressor thanks to being able to shoot out of it, but that's risky. Your best option will be Mortifiers and Penitent engines. Especially if your opponent tries to deepstrike your exorcists.

I'm intending to use a mix of ork horde and heavy guns. Turn 1 I'll have the guns on the field and the horde in reserves, shoot anything anti-horde turn 1, then have the horde arrive turn 2 to a much safer battlefield.

I think the best designs will be armies which split into 2 distinct metas, with the one on the table at the start destined to make the board safer before the reserves arrive. That might mean jumping boys forward turn 1 to engage anti-tank guns, then having a dreadmob walk in from the board edges, or it might be loads of lootas to kill specific guns before loads of buggies speed in from the flanks.